Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

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Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:11 pm

On the road again… Bolton’s promotion was effectively won away, with five straight victories in March and April building enough of a points gap to negate the wobble that ended in sunshine at Port Vale. Over the season, 12 of Bolton’s 25 league wins came away from the Macron. Such portable obstinacy will be crucial to their hopes of Championship survival this season.

The first litmus test comes at Millwall. Far from the Premier League posh boys they were when they last entered the second tier in 2012, Bolton are now fiscally hampered to the point where they can be outmuscled by all but a handful of teams. Millwall, promoted via the play-offs and with their own controversial off-field shenanigans to face, might be seen as one of those – but the Lions still had the wallet to bid for their old centre-half Mark Beevers.

It was at The Den last autumn that Beevers began the ascent to hero status among the Wanderers support. Booed at every touch by the unforgiving home fans, he was consequently cheered to the away-end rafters every time he headed clear another of Millwall’s gormless balls into the box, which was often. Keener of mind and quicker of foot, Bolton were able to hold out relatively comfortably for a 2-0 win courtesy of Sammy Ameobi’s wallop and a late capper from Beevers’ brother at the back David Wheater.

Such a win last season seemed par for the course – Bolton had won seven of the last eight league games, six of the wins without conceding. This season, though, Millwall are not just another stop on a point-gathering itinerary. Wins will be much harder to come by, and this might be as good a chance as Bolton get for a month: the next opponents are Birmingham, Derby, Hull, Middlesbrough and Sheffield United.

So, how to achieve it? That autumn run was achieved by a 4-2-3-1 system featuring the twin threats of Ameobi and Zach Clough, but this season Phil Parkinson is sticking to the 3-5-2 that did so well in spring. It looked a lot less effective last Sunday against Leeds, with a leaky defence left vulnerable by a more porous midfield.

Despite a reasonable show in the final friendly against Stoke, Stephen Darby struggled at right wing-back and Parky has options to replace him. Mark Little knows the division and the role better, while Fil Morais’ return to the side as a sub at Crewe brought the inevitable assist within minutes. This game might have come a touch too early for the Portuguese, leaving Parky weighing up whether to trust Darby or turn to Little.

The Wheater-shaped hole in the middle of defence will presumably be filled by West Ham loanee Reece Burke, although utility bod Derik cleared his throat with the winner at Crewe. The Spaniard might instead be drafted into midfield, which lacked a little shape against Leeds and now lacks ankle-knacked Josh Vela. Playing Derik as the holder might give a better platform for Jem Karacan and Josh Cullen to alternate their forays forward, but there are alternatives: virus-hit skipper Darren Pratley might be ready after a 67-minute runout at Crewe, while Will Buckley has been played as a forward runner from the middle.

If it were me, I’d go for Derik behind Cullen and Karacan; we might need the height at the back to counter those Millwall punts forward. I’d have Little on the right unless Morais is fighting fit. The Postman might be a good option off the bench, as might Buckley and Adam Armstrong, whose goal at Crewe will have helped press his own claim.

It’s one we can’t lose, and it’s one we can win. If not, it might be a long month.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:17 pm

Parky said post match that Little hadn't be "fit enough" during pre season. Doubt he'll start.

I wonder if a young Burke is ready for "Millwall away"? I can't see Pratley not playing.

I think it'll be....

Howard
Darby
Beevers
Burke
Dervite
Taylor

Pratley
Karacan
Cullen

Le Fondre
Madine

I think the only possible alteration would be Morais in for Darby if Morais is deemed fit enough to start the match.

EDIT: That is the team Parky will play. The team I would play is

Alnwick

Darby (Morais/Little if either are fit enough)
Taylor
Beevers
Derik
Robinson

Karacan
Pratley
Cullen

Armstrong
Madine

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by enrdentw » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:56 pm

I like the idea of Taylor at CB cover if Antoneeeeeeeeeeeee proves to be business.

Like Azpiliqueta at Chelsea :)

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:57 pm

Why not Dervite in for Wheater? He's apparently not been playing badly, and he's big enough to plug the gap.
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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:34 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:57 pm
Why not Dervite in for Wheater? He's apparently not been playing badly, and he's big enough to plug the gap.
Because he started the Leeds game, so can't be "brought in".

If you're asking why I would leave him out, it is because I think Taylor and Derik would use the ball from the back better and provide a little more balance either side of Beevers. Both are a bit quicker by CB standards. Millwall will be physical I guess, but think we'd cope.

Dervite hasn't done much wrong, but for me his only real "out ball" is chipping cross field to Madine. Away from home that may squander more possession than is ideal.

Additionally we have to find a way to get proper wingbacks in the side. Robinson sounds like he did well last night. And Taylor is too good to leave out entirely....

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:40 pm

Interesting. Andy Taylor's 5ft 10in. Yes yes, Fabio Cannavaro was a thing, and PP picked Darby there against a fourth division side, but we've got enough centre-backs not to play AT there – and we've got enough problems on the other side without disrupting the left flank too. Speaking of which, I'm surprised you think Reece Burke's not a big enough boy for the Den but you'd play Antonee Robinson, three days out of his teens and with all of 90 minutes' senior football, down the flank in front of their gibbering idiots.

I assume Millwall are still going to be knocking it up to those 6ft 2in lumps Morison and Gregory, who both started last Friday at Forest, or perhaps the 6ft 4in lump Tom Elliott who they got from Wimbledon in summer and who scored twice for the League Cup team on Tuesday (in front of Parky). I think the 6ft 2.5in Burke is a likelier pick; I certainly hope so.

As for the right side, I can't find the Little quote but PP said something very similar about Morais - "he’s missed most of pre-season and we’re going to have to filter him back in like we did tonight" - so it'd be surprising if he starts at Millwall, sadly. We might have to have Darby again, unless PP (or Allamby) deems Little ready – and even then, he might give his old Scouse mate another go so it doesn't seem like he's binned him off ASAP.

While we're on the subject: if/when we start playing Morais or Little at right wingback, I'd quite like to see a little tweak to the back three. On Sunday when Wheater went off, Beevers shifted central and Burke played to his left. While he played well on that side for somebody predominantly right-footed, I'd like to see the left-footed Beevers stay on that side; I'd move Dervite into the middle and get Burke on the right: as the kid's more mobile and reads the game better, he would be a better back-up to a more attacking right wingback, giving us a bit more fluidity to keep recycling down that flank.

You're right that Pratley will probably start. You're right, but I'm not sure it's right.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:47 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:40 pm
Interesting. Andy Taylor's 5ft 10in. Yes yes, Fabio Cannavaro was a thing, and PP picked Darby there against a fourth division side, but we've got enough centre-backs not to play AT there – and we've got enough problems on the other side without disrupting the left flank too. Speaking of which, I'm surprised you think Reece Burke's not a big enough boy for the Den but you'd play Antonee Robinson, three days out of his teens and with all of 90 minutes' senior football, down the flank in front of their gibbering idiots.

I assume Millwall are still going to be knocking it up to those 6ft 2in lumps Morison and Gregory, who both started last Friday at Forest, or perhaps the 6ft 4in lump Tom Elliott who they got from Wimbledon in summer and who scored twice for the League Cup team on Tuesday (in front of Parky). I think the 6ft 2.5in Burke is a likelier pick; I certainly hope so.

As for the right side, I can't find the Little quote but PP said something very similar about Morais - "he’s missed most of pre-season and we’re going to have to filter him back in like we did tonight" - so it'd be surprising if he starts at Millwall, sadly. We might have to have Darby again, unless PP (or Allamby) deems Little ready – and even then, he might give his old Scouse mate another go so it doesn't seem like he's binned him off ASAP.

While we're on the subject: if/when we start playing Morais or Little at right wingback, I'd quite like to see a little tweak to the back three. On Sunday when Wheater went off, Beevers shifted central and Burke played to his left. While he played well on that side for somebody predominantly right-footed, I'd like to see the left-footed Beevers stay on that side; I'd move Dervite into the middle and get Burke on the right: as the kid's more mobile and reads the game better, he would be a better back-up to a more attacking right wingback, giving us a bit more fluidity to keep recycling down that flank.

You're right that Pratley will probably start. You're right, but I'm not sure it's right.
Take your point on height. But I feel Taylor's experience will be beneficial. It isn't Burke's stature more experience. I do like him, but think we're going to be digging in against Millwall.

Robinson seems like he's quick and offers outlet. Something we absolutely need. At least until we have it with a fit Morais on the right hand side. It is a risk but I feel we need wing backs in this system. Wing backs with pace to get up and down. Taylor is ok when you've got a more attacking right wing back. If Darby plays there and Taylor at left back that is too.....back 5. And the midfield are left without outlet and without support from the wing backs all too often.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:01 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:47 pm
Robinson seems like he's quick and offers outlet. Something we absolutely need. At least until we have it with a fit Morais on the right hand side. It is a risk but I feel we need wing backs in this system. Wing backs with pace to get up and down. Taylor is ok when you've got a more attacking right wing back. If Darby plays there and Taylor at left back that is too.....back 5. And the midfield are left without outlet and without support from the wing backs all too often.
Agreed on all that, although young Robinson has a lot to prove (he looked promising against a tier four side, we're in tier two) and Taylor is a very safe pair of hands that we were happy to re-sign. I agree that we're too defensive with him on one side and Darby on the other though - as you say, flat back five, so with two up top it's no wonder our midfield gets overrun, you'd need Kantes in there to compete, and even he can't pass much. Which brings us to the central truth that it's not the starting positions that matter, it's how you defend (without the ball) and use (with it) the space around your players and theirs.

For the record, I'd be fascinated to see how your back five of Robinson-Taylor-Beevers-Derik-Little/Morais did, it could be nicely fluid. But it wouldn't be good enough in the air for Parky, and (I fear) for this division.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by boltonboris » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:06 pm

I think Morais will start on the right. Until we settle and midfield gels, set-pieces are our biggest hope of goals and Morais provides more pace, more aggression and a better dead ball option, that Darby, who from what little I've seen, is way off the required standard
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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:13 pm

For me, Darby must not play at wing back!! I would rather play Morais knowing he was only going to last 45-60mins, the same with Little. They can job share until one of them is fully up to speed.

I felt last season that Taylor would struggle in this league as a wing back. I would give Robinson a chance there soon, having that athleticism and stamina is crucial I feel long term. However, in a pressurized game at the Den, in a nasty atmosphere, Taylor's experience would get the nod for me. And I am sure it is Taylor for Parky 100% of the time for this game.

I hope Derik gets the nod in midfield. He must be feeling confident after last night and we need someone who will sit in front of the defence and fill the opposition's attacking midfield area. Karacan and Cullen clearly don't have that instinct. If we do play Derik, Buckley must be an option in the Vela role after last night, but given he played 90mins last night, and the Birmingham game is on Tuesday, he is probably best utilized from the bench.

So: Howard; Morais (Little if Morais isn't physically ready), Dervite, Burke, Beevers, Taylor: Derik, Karacan, Cullen; ALF, Madine.

It feels lacking in creativity but a lot more balanced and solid than Sunday. It is actually pretty important Morais does play there, coz I don't see an obvious set piece taker if he doesn't, never mind one who can be relied on to deliver quality, and that would be our main source of chances/goals with this line up.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:08 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:01 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:47 pm
Robinson seems like he's quick and offers outlet. Something we absolutely need. At least until we have it with a fit Morais on the right hand side. It is a risk but I feel we need wing backs in this system. Wing backs with pace to get up and down. Taylor is ok when you've got a more attacking right wing back. If Darby plays there and Taylor at left back that is too.....back 5. And the midfield are left without outlet and without support from the wing backs all too often.
Agreed on all that, although young Robinson has a lot to prove (he looked promising against a tier four side, we're in tier two) and Taylor is a very safe pair of hands that we were happy to re-sign. I agree that we're too defensive with him on one side and Darby on the other though - as you say, flat back five, so with two up top it's no wonder our midfield gets overrun, you'd need Kantes in there to compete, and even he can't pass much. Which brings us to the central truth that it's not the starting positions that matter, it's how you defend (without the ball) and use (with it) the space around your players and theirs.

For the record, I'd be fascinated to see how your back five of Robinson-Taylor-Beevers-Derik-Little/Morais did, it could be nicely fluid. But it wouldn't be good enough in the air for Parky, and (I fear) for this division.
Put Burke in for Derik then. Or Dervite. I just want to have centre halves on each side more comfortable on the ball. And also more mobile. Plus I strongly think in this league we need a proper outlet out wide especially away from home.

If Robinson is only ever backup to Taylor then for me that is a wasted squad place. This side needs pace. We saw on Saturday Leeds had pace all over the pitch and that hurt us.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:19 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:06 pm
I think Morais will start on the right. Until we settle and midfield gels, set-pieces are our biggest hope of goals and Morais provides more pace, more aggression and a better dead ball option, that Darby, who from what little I've seen, is way off the required standard
This!

But I would be up for 4 at the back,

Alnwick
Darby
Taylor
Beevers
Dervite
Derik
Karacan
Morais
Le fondre
Buckley
Madine

Not ideal for le fondre and maybe start pratley there and bring him on. Just gives both full backs some cover. More solid than 352 (which I am still up for using when it suits as well).

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:15 pm

Being realistic, I'm seeing our set up and format as much the same as last year so it's going to be hard going. We won 't play free attacking football in this league because we don't have either the money for top quality players or the financial freedom to expand. Whatever the bean-counters are up to, winning games is what will get the fans in, not financial dealings (or mis-dealings). We'll have to take everything as it comes and defend every game for long periods hoping to break and get the only goal that matters. Sailing balls over midfield has become our mandatory game because midfield domination needs a top class playmaker and nobody seems to want that responsibility (who have we had since Mark Davies? Even Spearing has gone - and he was no Ivan Campo at best - and it's a tough role. In want of a playmaker we need a ball player to run at defences (Sammi) and even then we seem never to have much support handy when it happens. The likes of Madine and Alf ( and possibly the new front-line talent) would surely love a few balls to feet instead of forever gazing skywards in hope. Wing backs need to be super fit and injury free, and right now the injury demon is haunting us again. Games last ninety minutes and our own fitness levels will really need to be on the mark. All said, we could still have a good season and finish well in the safe zone if the E.F.L will only show a bit of clemency. Then again, I could be entirely wrong.. :wink:

Millwall, who are they? A bunch of thuggish no-marks. Come on you Whites..... :oyea:
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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by enrdentw » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:55 pm

I saw Milwall against Forest last Friday. I thought they were excellent, incredibly unlucky to lose. Morrison was superb - he'd be a great test for Burke.

Back 3 will be Dervite Beevers Burke - no doubt about it.

Shout out to Zach Clough. Was one of Forest's best players last week.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:23 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:08 pm
]I just want to have centre halves on each side more comfortable on the ball. And also more mobile. Plus I strongly think in this league we need a proper outlet out wide especially away from home.

If Robinson is only ever backup to Taylor then for me that is a wasted squad place. This side needs pace.
Agreed on the first paragraph and the last sentence, but I don't mind Robbo being back-up as otherwise we're an injury away from a complete guessing game. in our system, wingbacks are crucial - more so than the back three, the middle three or front two - so we need cover, or even rotation, but it's not a waste to make sure we've got another LWB.

Anyways, on from interesting but theoretical discussion to some potential (bad) team news: BN this morning reports that the virus which affected D-Pratz wasn't isolated to Captain Marvel.
Wanderers have concerns a virus could affect their preparations for tomorrow’s clash with Millwall. A handful of players reported illness before Wednesday night’s 2-1 win over Crewe in the Carabao Cup. Phil Parkinson had named a much-changed squad at Gresty Road, so it is unclear how heavily his plans will be affected at The Den.
[...] Darren Pratley was ruled out of the season opener against Leeds United with a similar problem, failing a pre-match fitness assessment. He returned against Crewe but struggled to hit top form and was restricted to just an hour. “It was pre-planned to take him off because he’d missed the whole of last week and still wasn’t quite himself,” Parkinson said.
If DP's not fighting fit, will he get a start after an hour in midweek, or will it have left him more tired than boosted? Over to Allamby...

Also in the BN, and relevant for team news: PP quotes in this Derik piece.
I’m pleased for Derik because he has had to wait in the wings a little bit and not get the game-time he maybe wanted in pre-season but he grew into the game. We need to add something to what we did on Sunday. Morais coming back into the frame is big for us. Mark Little was at the best level he has been all pre-season too.

And in a piece on Armstrong, here's PP saying that Arma's getting closer to full fitness but Wilbraham's a ways off:
He came back in a bit later at Newcastle and maybe didn’t do the base training he needed to do – but he’s definitely getting there and I think to get off the mark will be a big lift for him and for us. I don’t think it will take anything out of him physically, he didn’t start loads of football over there. But now we think he’s ready. Adam is a great finisher, he’s had a season of Championship football and he’s used to it now, he knows what to expect.

Aaron hasn’t played any minutes at all, so by rights he should have been playing in the Under-23s. But he’ll get there.

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:03 am

Pay on the day confirmed, no price increase (£26 adults). Me and The Legendary Flanners are going - anyone else?

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... -millwall/

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:34 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:03 am
Pay on the day confirmed, no price increase (£26 adults). Me and The Legendary Flanners are going - anyone else?

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... -millwall/
No :)
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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by twilight » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:48 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:34 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:03 am
Pay on the day confirmed, no price increase (£26 adults). Me and The Legendary Flanners are going - anyone else?

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... -millwall/
No :)
I'm not playing Billy No Mates and going on my own , so no :(

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by TonyDomingos » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:19 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:03 am
Pay on the day confirmed, no price increase (£26 adults). Me and The Legendary Flanners are going - anyone else?

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... -millwall/

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Re: Now Den: Millwall (a), 3pm Sat 12/08/17

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:56 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:34 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:03 am
Pay on the day confirmed, no price increase (£26 adults). Me and The Legendary Flanners are going - anyone else?

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/august ... -millwall/
No :)
Any particular reason Brucie? :-)

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