The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:00 am

Would Ken throw Parky under the bus to protect his own reputation? Each reader will have his or her own opinion.

Won't be long before someone's suggesting Nolan with Allardyce as Director of Football - as if that wouldn't clash with the Andersons' remit.

We need a midfielder both imposing and intelligent - no point just having a repulsive oaf who then can't use the freshly-won ball wisely. After that, besides a striker we can't afford, we will have to hope the players we have are good enough and, importantly, fit enough to start getting points.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by elhadj » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:13 am

But there needs to be some realism, Sam Allardyce could walk into any struggling premiership club, if he wanted. I'm sure Palace would have taken him back. But why on earth he'd come to a struggling championship club with no money, in an embargo...its absolutely ridiculous to think he'd consider that.
[/quote]

because big sam love bolton and i think his family live in bolton , and maybe he will bring some buyers to take bolton from ken anderson and put some money .

i don't have any thing against ken but he is working too slowly , if he wants to remove this embargo he will work hard and do everything to help this beautiful club .

i'm supporting bolton in good times and bad times i'm loving this club from 2003 , and i can't see any body success after big sam left , maybe the board make bad choice , if it's once it's ok twice ok but they made five bad choice , eddie davies and phil gartside now gone and the new board make a good choice with parkinson but for me and till now parkinson is just have league 1 experience this is maybe his second time in champioship and till now he is doing very bad , i know a lot will say he can't do anything because of this embargo , this is right , but at least put organise team on the floor try to change your style madine do what he can do but he cannot be the best player every game because this is his best , so if madine not winning any high ball we will do nothing in attack .

some will said big sam have same style long ball , but at least he can put organise team every game and if there is some thing wrong he will make it wright because he have a lot of experience in this division and in the premier league .

i hope parkinson try to make some thing wright .

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:13 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:00 am
Would Ken throw Parky under the bus to protect his own reputation? Each reader will have his or her own opinion.

Won't be long before someone's suggesting Nolan with Allardyce as Director of Football - as if that wouldn't clash with the Andersons' remit.

We need a midfielder both imposing and intelligent - no point just having a repulsive oaf who then can't use the freshly-won ball wisely. After that, besides a striker we can't afford, we will have to hope the players we have are good enough and, importantly, fit enough to start getting points.
I think it depends on a variety of things. I know Anderson and Parky get on. However, as sole owner if Ken thinks this season is salvageable he won't want to see the value of his investment diminish.

Also I note he's gone quiet all of a sudden. No updates re embargo etc...and he must know serious questions are being asked of this.

The problem he has now is that whatever happens, embargo, fresh investment (or the alternative) - there is a fair chance it is too late to change this season. So we might have to accept that we'll be back in league one. But many of our fans have the patience of a gnat and will be on the managers back (they already are) without any thought of context or the longer term position.

We've been under embargo longer than any club in English football, ever. Why are we still in it?

Next few weeks will tell us a lot. What is Anderson's plan...is he trying to flip the business quickly or does he have a longer term aim and the means to back such a plan up? Also does he think take responsibility or try and shift it elsewhere.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:17 am

elhadj wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:13 am
But there needs to be some realism, Sam Allardyce could walk into any struggling premiership club, if he wanted. I'm sure Palace would have taken him back. But why on earth he'd come to a struggling championship club with no money, in an embargo...its absolutely ridiculous to think he'd consider that.
because big sam love bolton and i think his family live in bolton , and maybe he will bring some buyers to take bolton from ken anderson and put some money .


[/quote]

Big Sam only loves himself! The reason he lives in Bolton is because his wife didn't want to move. So whilst I'm sure we feature highly for him on the list of clubs he looks out for the results of, I'm not convinced that he's got any intention of coming back here to manage us. In fact I'm fairly convinced he'd laugh out loud if Ken made the call.

Its a fanciful notion. He advised Holdsworth during the acquisition of the club from Eddie Davies. If Sam himself wanted to invest in, or buy the club, that was the time when it was going for £1. Instead he advised another party. Simply put....it isn't happening.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Peter Thompson » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:43 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:13 am
We've been under embargo longer than any club in English football, ever. Why are we still in it?

Next few weeks will tell us a lot. What is Anderson's plan...is he trying to flip the business quickly or does he have a longer term aim and the means to back such a plan up? Also does he think take responsibility or try and shift it elsewhere.
I didn't go last night so I won't comment on the overall performance, the manager or the players.

But I completely agree with BWFCI's comments about Anderson & the embargo - this needs to lifted ASAP before the end of this month (at the latest) - if he can't put a business plan to the EFL now that he owns 95% of the club, which will convince them that we now have the necessary finances & stability to move the club forward so that they lift the embargo, then IMO something isn't quite right.

My personal view hence my question a few days ago, is that he appears quite happy for the embargo to continue so that he can keep his hands in his pockets, I do suspect that's he's focusing on offloading the club more than getting the embargo lifted urgently

I hope I'm wrong as I've backed KA from day one, but IMO it would have been lifted by now if KA had put a proper plan in front of the EFL, which he's had more than enough time to do.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:12 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:13 am
The problem he has now is that whatever happens, embargo, fresh investment (or the alternative) - there is a fair chance it is too late to change this season. So we might have to accept that we'll be back in league one.
With 37 games still to play? I know we sing about keeping the white flag flying high, but I don't think we mean in surrender.

Case in point: mid-February 2016, Rotherham have appointed Warnock and with 15 games to play they're five points from safety. They survive by nine points.

I'm not saying we appoint Warnock, who seems to be busy anyway, or anyone of his kind. I'm not saying we sack Parkinson, because these circumstances would hardly invite a flood of world-class applicants. Even if we get the embargo lifted we're almost certainly going to be seeking free transfers, and not many managers can cope with that: I note Mourinho has said he needs another transfer window after spending just the £300m in the past three.

What we need in a manager, for the rest of this season:
• can work with a transfer kitty of next to nothing
• can work with the Andersons
• can work with the players we have
• isn't beholden to one formation
• is happy to grind out results
• can inspire the players and fans

Again: each BWFC fan will have an opinion as to how many of these boxes Parky ticks, but any other option would have to be a better bet.

For me, for now, I don't think it's time to panic. The squad is both narrow and shallow, especially with injuries, and from the way we've started it will be very impressive indeed if we're still in with a chance come January. If we're still in embargo come January, the blame lies not with Parky but Ken.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:28 pm

I feel it is imperative the embargo is lifted very soon indeed. If we have to play with this midfield until January it will be too late imho. There are better midfielders than we already have that could sign out of the TW, but even if we got them in tomorrow they would need to do fitness work and gel with the rest of the squad. There is a 2 week international break at the end of September, that would be the time to have new players in and getting up to speed. KA needs to provide an update on the embargo and his future plans asap.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:44 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:13 am
The problem he has now is that whatever happens, embargo, fresh investment (or the alternative) - there is a fair chance it is too late to change this season. So we might have to accept that we'll be back in league one.
With 37 games still to play? I know we sing about keeping the white flag flying high, but I don't think we mean in surrender.

Case in point: mid-February 2016, Rotherham have appointed Warnock and with 15 games to play they're five points from safety. They survive by nine points.

I'm not saying we appoint Warnock, who seems to be busy anyway, or anyone of his kind. I'm not saying we sack Parkinson, because these circumstances would hardly invite a flood of world-class applicants. Even if we get the embargo lifted we're almost certainly going to be seeking free transfers, and not many managers can cope with that: I note Mourinho has said he needs another transfer window after spending just the £300m in the past three.

What we need in a manager, for the rest of this season:
• can work with a transfer kitty of next to nothing
• can work with the Andersons
• can work with the players we have
• isn't beholden to one formation
• is happy to grind out results
• can inspire the players and fans

Again: each BWFC fan will have an opinion as to how many of these boxes Parky ticks, but any other option would have to be a better bet.

For me, for now, I don't think it's time to panic. The squad is both narrow and shallow, especially with injuries, and from the way we've started it will be very impressive indeed if we're still in with a chance come January. If we're still in embargo come January, the blame lies not with Parky but Ken.
Of course mathematically....

But can you see this group of players getting enough points to be in touch by January? Given we can't substantially do anything to improve it until then (IF at all). I look down the list of teams in this league, and whilst it is true they're not all Middlesbrough or Leeds, there are few I would say "we'll win that". Of course we'll get some results, but a bad start with a weak, injury riddled squad....we've been here before. Once you hit 10 games if you're well below 1ppg then you start to need a good run just to catch up...and teams down the bottom that have good runs, usually hit the buffers at some point and have a bad one. We desperately needed a half decent start. As it is the momeuntum has gone, injuries piled up (we seem to get an injury a match), the team has to be rotated, confidence is low and most worryingly we don't have a single player (bar possibly Ameobi) who I consider has the potential to lift the team with a moment or two of magic...and he's weeks off still - and still questionable at this level I guess.

As for your list of requirements I suspect nobody on earth fulfills all those.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:00 pm

An honest question asking for an honest answer: We lost 1-0 to a side that almost everybody here claimed we would to a deflected ping-pong goal.( Likewise with our last few games) Second half we did everything but score quite a few times and didn't concede further (although we might have had that one that hit the bar gone in). We have a very depleted squad via injuries and an empty purse, are we really doing that badly and in need of a bit of luck?
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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:17 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:00 pm
An honest question asking for an honest answer: We lost 1-0 to a side that almost everybody here claimed we would to a deflected ping-pong goal.( Likewise with our last few games) Second half we did everything but score quite a few times and didn't concede further (although we might have had that one that hit the bar gone in). We have a very depleted squad via injuries and an empty purse, are we really doing that badly and in need of a bit of luck?
Depends what you mean. Are we doing that badly relative to a realistic assessment of our situation? Probably not.

But if you want to stay up, you need to get around the 50 point mark. Sometimes more sometimes less.

But if you take that as a sort of survival target, where will those points come from? In all honesty we gave Sheff Utd more of a game than Boro or Leeds or Derby, as one might expect. But on clear chances, they probably edged it. Sometimes you do get in a bad run where you just need that bit of fortune to get the next result. I watched Palace at Burnley on Sunday and to me Palace looked good, nothing went for them and they lost, despite having 22 attempts to Burnley's 4, and that as the away team. Now in that scenario there is a good case for Palace eventually getting the rub of the green turning things round and going on a run (though sometimes it goes the other way). But in our case it really looks tricky to say with any confidence we're one win away from turning it round and stringing some results together.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:23 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:44 pm
Of course mathematically....
Dude, we're still months off "mathematically". We've got more than four-fifths of the season to go.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:44 pm
But can you see this group of players getting enough points to be in touch by January? Given we can't substantially do anything to improve it until then (IF at all). I look down the list of teams in this league, and whilst it is true they're not all Middlesbrough or Leeds, there are few I would say "we'll win that". Of course we'll get some results, but a bad start with a weak, injury riddled squad....we've been here before.
Yes, I can see this group of players getting enough points. The first draw or win might be scabby, but I'll take that. Momentum works in both ways, and plenty of teams have gone on good runs after bad ones – including us, and Parky's Bradford.

Besides, evidence is in the eye of the beholder, and you can't deny you've got previous for misery predictions. After the home draw with Wimbledon last season you said “Frankly we will be clinging on for a play off place at best. And unless the new lads suddenly click, can't see us troubling any of the play off sides right now. We are too disjointed." We won the next five games, scoring 16 goals.

You might be right, but I hope you're wrong, and not because I want you to lose, but because I want BWFC to win. It's way, way too early to be towel-chucking.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:44 pm
As for your list of requirements I suspect nobody on earth fulfills all those.
Well, quite. I'd say Parky ticks more boxes than most. I'm also optimistic that he will learn and improve through this experience. For instance, I don't think he'd ever played a back three before last season, but he was open-minded enough to try it and it got us promoted. For sure, his teams can sometimes seem overly pragmatic/negative and there's been many an occasion when I've been screaming in my seat for more forward movement, but that doesn't mean I'm expecting to rubber-neck a car-crash season.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:45 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:10 pm
Ten minutes of highlights here:

https://www.sufc.co.uk/news/2017/septem ... on-action/
Just watched these 10-minute highlights, presumably independently produced or perhaps by SUFC's in-house team, and they certainly don't seem to show a one-sided drubbing of a hopeless bag-of-shite team that'll never win again. In fact it looks like the match suggested by the statistics: 50-50 possession, 13 shots v 8 of theirs, but only 2v3 on target. Goal looked bloody unlucky too – three defenders throw themselves at the loose ball, it bounces off one of them right onto the Blade's foot.

We're not a million miles off and there are good things to note. Being of sunny disposition, I shall attempt to catalogue them.

First, Pratley got dropped. Not rested, not injured: dropped. Now, I don't despise Darren as much as many do, but I know he's playing badly and I'd rather we use better players. Notable, then, that the manager has the guts to drop his captain and pick the side he sees as best to do the job.

Relatedly, PP showed good tactical fluidity in reverting to the 3-5-2. I said before the game I'd rather stick than twist but PP sensibly chose to match up SUFC's 3-5-2. Such an ability to switch squashes the idea that PP is stubbornly inflexible – and with seven games in 21 days it might also help get the best performances out of various squad members.

Unlike on previous occasions we've gone 3-5-2, the wingbacks played well. Mark Little was praised by Parky: "I thought Mark was great tonight, I was really pleased with him. He’s had to be patient and wait for his chance, but I thought he’s got fitter and stronger and he showed what he was all about tonight. He’s a very dynamic player and he can drive forward down that right hand side." Crucially he seemed willing, able and encouraged to get forward, as was Robinson on the other flank, who must have felt better than he did when chasing that ex-Barcelona bloke's shadows on Saturday. If these two can play like that, 3-5-2 becomes a reasonable possibility.

And other teams are struggling:
• Brentford lost after being in front, which is a kick in the teeth, and they're still winless.
• After being 2-0 up at QPR, Millwall were pegged back by an 85th-minute equaliser.
• Birmingham lost again, four on the bounce (last three without scoring, the one before at Burton). They haven't won a point since they played us. Redknapp plus chequebook does not always mean happiness.
• Burton got a 0-0 at Norwich but they gave up 69% possession and 18 attempts on goal, in the week they lost 5-0 at Leeds. Nobody can convince me they’re streets better than us.
• Sunderland are still only three points clear of us after a sickening late loss at home to Forest. That's four straight league defeats; they’ve also lost four successive league home games and it’s not like they’re the world’s most stable club.

So, chin up. All's not lost.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Not sure DSB. I agree it doesn't look so bad from the highlights, but yet the four clearest chances fell to them. Yes the goal could be described as unlucky, but they had another clear chance from another set piece that they hit straight at Alnwick, and we had to clear off the line in the 2nd half, and they hit the bar at the end when clean through, as we pushed for the equalizer. Whereas there wasn't one clear chance for us judging by these highlights, just a lot of huffing and puffing and balls into the box.

It seems quite similar to the Birmingham game I went to. The teams were even in terms of quality, but we didn't have one clear cut chance at goal. In that game they were just as bad in terms of creating chances. So it seems, yes, there will be a lot of teams (maybe 12-14) in this league where we are not outclassed. But when that happens we don't have any cutting edge, so most times we will not win these games. And surely there shouldn't be 15-20 games per season when we just can't cope and could easily lose by 5-6 goals? How do we get to 50 points??

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:24 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:56 pm
Not sure DSB. I agree it doesn't look so bad from the highlights, but yet the four clearest chances fell to them. Yes the goal could be described as unlucky, but they had another clear chance from another set piece that they hit straight at Alnwick, and we had to clear off the line in the 2nd half, and they hit the bar at the end when clean through, as we pushed for the equalizer. Whereas there wasn't one clear chance for us judging by these highlights, just a lot of huffing and puffing and balls into the box.

It seems quite similar to the Birmingham game I went to. The teams were even in terms of quality, but we didn't have one clear cut chance at goal. In that game they were just as bad in terms of creating chances. So it seems, yes, there will be a lot of teams (maybe 12-14) in this league where we are not outclassed. But when that happens we don't have any cutting edge, so most times we will not win these games. And surely there shouldn't be 15-20 games per season when we just can't cope and could easily lose by 5-6 goals? How do we get to 50 points??
We certainly need more efficiency (often described in emotional terms as ruthlessness) up top. According to WhoScored, only two teams have lower shots-per-game average than our 9.3: Burton (6.3) and Ipswich (8.7), who were fourth in the league table before most other teams played last night.

In fact, Ipswich are statistically fascinating, and not just because we're playign them this weekend. All told, they've had 52 attempts on goal to our 65 but scored 10 goals to our 4; they've also only conceded 8, to our 14, despite allowing a division-high 20.3 attempts per game, unbelievably almost twice as many as we have. Our 10.7 per game is the divisions' sixth-lowest number of attempts allowed, which might point at another problem.

I dunno. We may not get to 50 points. We may not need to (think it's only two seasons in the past 10 that 50+pts have been needed). But if we are to get there, the most likely route is by winning the relegation six-pointers and picking up some points against the middle band of teams. We weren't that far off last night, certainly not as far off as would warrant the towel-chucking.

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Prufrock » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:47 pm

Don't like 352 but it made sense last night, a) matching them and b) given available personnel.

I'm still far from despondent. It's pretty fecking obvious we aren't going to be challenging any higher than 18th or so, still plenty time yet and we haven't yet had a home game against the worse teams. In fact last night was the first I wouldn't say we were clearly not favourite for.

We've a good manager, and that counts for a lot. Wet going to need some luck which we haven't really had yet, but still plenty of time.
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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:29 pm

In the cold light of day and after a night to sleep on it...I still think we're dog shit and the race is on between this lot and Lennoms shower.

However
We aren't giving up (except maybe Hull?)
You can forgive a lot if we try our best
Parkys operating with his hands tied so nonissue there (though I do wonder how long it will go on for - I'm not having Ken sold him the dream of 3.5 years underan embargo).

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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:46 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:45 pm
Just watched these 10-minute highlights, presumably independently produced or perhaps by SUFC's in-house team, and they certainly don't seem to show a one-sided drubbing of a hopeless bag-of-shite team that'll never win again. In fact it looks like the match suggested by the statistics: 50-50 possession, 13 shots v 8 of theirs, but only 2v3 on target. Goal looked bloody unlucky too – three defenders throw themselves at the loose ball, it bounces off one of them right onto the Blade's foot.
The sort of thinking that promotes questions like I asked. Okay, I only heard it, but either the match commentators are stealing a living by knowing nothing about football, or there's some vastly different views on what we're currently into. I gave up listening to total negativity and complaints of how rubbish we are because in truth, being where we are and being lucky not to go back straight back down was not too uncommon a view before the season even started. The loss of Vela and Ameobi are most certainly big minuses for Parky, and the embargo is a football joke when you read about Neymar, Pogba ( out injured again after last night's match apparently) and all the rest of those who've found King Solomon's Mines . They must wonder if we're on the same planet. If we can just get, and stay up beyond the relegation minefield, that's all Parky is paid to do. Playing Monopoly for real money is finance, not football. I'll go with thinking we'll be safe.... ae:)
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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:56 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:46 pm
The loss of Vela and Ameobi are most certainly big minuses for Parky, and the embargo is a football joke when you read about Neymar, Pogba ( out injured again after last night's match apparently) and all the rest of those who've found King Solomon's Mines . They must wonder if we're on the same planet. If we can just get, and stay up beyond the relegation minefield, that's all Parky is paid to do. Playing Monopoly for real money is finance, not football. I'll go with thinking we'll be safe.... ae:)
I read somewhere that the embargo is the longest (or something like that) embargo ever given to a football team in England... ever! Seems a bit extreme to me if that was anything near true.
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:00 am
Won't be long before someone's suggesting Nolan with Allardyce as Director of Football - as if that wouldn't clash with the Andersons' remit.
It's almost like you read my comment on page 1 :D Matt Mills was another one who seemed to give a **** about the team, but I don't want him to be a player-manager. I just want some on-field / changing room violence every so often... and angry shouting!*

* On-field angry shouting as opposed to in-crowd angry shouting. Had enough of the latter a long time ago.
Last edited by Armchair Wanderer on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Blades to stick the knife in? Bolton v Sheffield Utd 12/9/17.

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:00 pm

Rather than ask if they could get enough points to be in touch, will DSBs other candidates get enough to leave anyone for dead at that point?
With this squad and a continued embargo I believe we'll drop. But things may change.
I'll be very surprised if we stay up but stranger things have happened.
Oh, but surely just for one day, we could fight and we could win
And if only for a little while, we could insist on the impossible...

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