The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:25 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:03 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:36 am
I like Vela a lot and would be sad to see him go but needs must and £5m would go a long way. Knowing how desperate we are though, will anyone offer us more than say £2.5m?
No point whatsoever selling at those prices in January. Getting relegated costs us £5m in TV revenue alone, never mind reduced crowds, ticket prices, sponsorship deals. If he stays we have a reasonable chance to stay up. If we are going to put our Championship life on the line in January,we need the sale to fetch £10m+. At least then we can stabilize and cover all losses for a year or two, and have a bit of money to sign a couple of young, promising replacements. Otherwise wait until the summer and let those just promoted to the Prem, and/or those in receipt of parachute payments get into a bidding war for him.
Staying up means we're still losing 5M a year. What would convince Ken to invest that money needed, only to have to find it again next year?
But going down means we would be losing more than £5m per year, because we wouldn't be able to trim the wage bill by £5m - £6m to cover the shortfall in income in L1. Plus staying up means any players we sell we get more for, there is more chance of purchasers/investors being interested, and that we could sell Vela for more in the summer. Ken is in a very exposed place. This business will only ever make a loss, and he probably can't afford to cover it. Therefore if we sell or only saleable asset it needs to do more than cover 6months-12months losses whilst giving us a very good chance of descending to a horrible place for the club both financially and sporting, and probably ensuring Ken is stuck with it.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:30 am

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:25 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:03 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:36 am
I like Vela a lot and would be sad to see him go but needs must and £5m would go a long way. Knowing how desperate we are though, will anyone offer us more than say £2.5m?
No point whatsoever selling at those prices in January. Getting relegated costs us £5m in TV revenue alone, never mind reduced crowds, ticket prices, sponsorship deals. If he stays we have a reasonable chance to stay up. If we are going to put our Championship life on the line in January,we need the sale to fetch £10m+. At least then we can stabilize and cover all losses for a year or two, and have a bit of money to sign a couple of young, promising replacements. Otherwise wait until the summer and let those just promoted to the Prem, and/or those in receipt of parachute payments get into a bidding war for him.
Staying up means we're still losing 5M a year. What would convince Ken to invest that money needed, only to have to find it again next year?
But going down means we would be losing more than £5m per year, because we wouldn't be able to trim the wage bill by £5m - £6m to cover the shortfall in income in L1. Plus staying up means any players we sell we get more for, there is more chance of purchasers/investors being interested, and that we could sell Vela for more in the summer. Ken is in a very exposed place. This business will only ever make a loss, and he probably can't afford to cover it. Therefore if we sell or only saleable asset it needs to do more than cover 6months-12months losses whilst giving us a very good chance of descending to a horrible place for the club both financially and sporting, and probably ensuring Ken is stuck with it.
Selling Vela, Beevers and Ameobi though would send us down but cover losses this season and a chunk of next too.

I personally think it entirely hinges on whether Ken believes there is a realistic chance of a full or partial buy-out soon. Otherwise he's stuck covering losses year after year with little to zero potential of seeing it back. KA isn't Eddie. He's simply not doing that.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:43 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:30 am

Selling Vela, Beevers and Ameobi though would send us down but cover losses this season and a chunk of next too.

I personally think it entirely hinges on whether Ken believes there is a realistic chance of a full or partial buy-out soon. Otherwise he's stuck covering losses year after year with little to zero potential of seeing it back. KA isn't Eddie. He's simply not doing that.
Beevers and Ameobi are out of contract at the end of the season anyway and wouldn't bring in a penny in January. If we can sell Vela for enough to cover losses for a couple of seasons, then by all means, I am all for it. But sums like £2.5m, or even £5m are just sticking plaster, when in reality he could be sold for more, particularly if clubs like Brighton are involved. We need to look at clubs like Brentford, who sold the likes of Scott Hogan for £10m to Villa last January, and Tarkowski to Burnley for £6m the January before. Those sales were to parachute payment receiving Championship clubs not Premiership clubs.

I agree Ken won't be putting much if any of his own money in. But as I said he is in a precarious position. In the Championship he has a chance of getting out of it as there is a chance of someone seeing us as an attractive proposition to buy knowing it only takes one Huddersfieldesque good season and he has quadrupled his investment. In L1 he, and us, with an expensive infrastructure and no saleable assets are screwed imho.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by boltonboris » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 pm

The Vela fee will be this £3m that Kenneth was hinting about getting in as additional revenue for half season tickets.

So when he flogs them, he can say, "well it's your own fault because not enough of you want to pay through the fvckin teeth for sub-standard football"
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:42 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 pm
The Vela fee will be this £3m that Kenneth was hinting about getting in as additional revenue for half season tickets.

So when he flogs them, he can say, "well it's your own fault because not enough of you want to pay through the fvckin teeth for sub-standard football"
Is it really too much to expect 20K for a town the size of Bolton to support the team? Especially off the back of a promotion.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by boltonboris » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:44 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:42 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 pm
The Vela fee will be this £3m that Kenneth was hinting about getting in as additional revenue for half season tickets.

So when he flogs them, he can say, "well it's your own fault because not enough of you want to pay through the fvckin teeth for sub-standard football"
Is it really too much to expect 20K for a town the size of Bolton to support the team? Especially off the back of a promotion.
Yes it is. We could offer free tickets for the rest of the season and the people of Bolton wouldn't turn up, because they'd have to pay £4 for the bus
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:58 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:42 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 pm
The Vela fee will be this £3m that Kenneth was hinting about getting in as additional revenue for half season tickets.

So when he flogs them, he can say, "well it's your own fault because not enough of you want to pay through the fvckin teeth for sub-standard football"
Is it really too much to expect 20K for a town the size of Bolton to support the team? Especially off the back of a promotion.
Yes it is. We could offer free tickets for the rest of the season and the people of Bolton wouldn't turn up, because they'd have to pay £4 for the bus
Or get out of bed!

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:48 am

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/fo ... -1-8895229

Madine now rumoured to be interesting Sunderland in January. Interesting the article says Sunderland have little funds to work with, and so their interest in Madine. A similar sentiment was expressed in the Vela rumour, suggesting we need to sell. Is there some sort of assumption out there that we are under such pressure to sell that we will accept cut priced bids? Is that true?

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by boltonboris » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:43 pm

Yes it is. We don't have enough money to last the season.

We currently have a Business Recovery specialist 'advising us' called Cowgill Holloway. They were initially appointed Auditors and still act in that role, but other areas of the accountancy business are being used in order to try and see us through.

We've also still got unpaid PAYE bills
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:40 pm

Well, we can always play ALF up top, as that's what The Public want

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm

It's not because we're seen as a soft touch as well is it? I was thinking - who did we last get top dollar for or when did we last get some mugs to overpay?
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm
It's not because we're seen as a soft touch as well is it? I was thinking - who did we last get top dollar for or when did we last get some mugs to overpay?
Depends. Looks a good deal for Clough right now doesn't it?

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:59 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm
It's not because we're seen as a soft touch as well is it? I was thinking - who did we last get top dollar for or when did we last get some mugs to overpay?
Got decent wedge for Anelka thanks to him signing a contract extension (under Sammy Lee?)

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm
It's not because we're seen as a soft touch as well is it? I was thinking - who did we last get top dollar for or when did we last get some mugs to overpay?
Depends. Looks a good deal for Clough right now doesn't it?
It does but at the time we felt short changed. There's plenty more like that too who became a bit of a disaster for their new clubs - Curcic, Thompson, Walsh, McDonagh etc

I was thinking more of someone who when the offer came in we couldn't believe our luck. £3.5m for CYL seemed a decent fee at the time and I was surprised when Blackpool gave us a million and a half for Chris Basham
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm
It's not because we're seen as a soft touch as well is it? I was thinking - who did we last get top dollar for or when did we last get some mugs to overpay?
Depends. Looks a good deal for Clough right now doesn't it?
It does but at the time we felt short changed. There's plenty more like that too who became a bit of a disaster for their new clubs - Curcic, Thompson, Walsh, McDonagh etc

I was thinking more of someone who when the offer came in we couldn't believe our luck. £3.5m for CYL seemed a decent fee at the time and I was surprised when Blackpool gave us a million and a half for Chris Basham
Some of that has been circumstance. Some has been bad luck. A lot is that we haven't really developed top talent through our youth structure. We've never had a Walcott for example to sell.

We had 18M agreed for Cahill in a deal with City till City's recruitment team changed and they backed out of the deal.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:37 pm

I think we only got something like £500k for CYL?? He only had six months left on his deal when he left, can't see us receiving £3.5m?

It is pretty hard to get top dollar, if everyone correctly believes we are skint and desperate for any kind of reasonable fee just to survive. Ken needs to up his bluffing skills and make it seem like we don't need to sell, easier said than done perhaps. Anyway noises in today's BEN are a start:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... _interest/

Target man Hugill at Preston reportedly attracted an £8m bid in the summer, Zohore at Cardiff £10m. Ridiculous as it may seem, we shouldn't entertain any bids that are below £5m imho. That would immediately rule Sunderland out...

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:38 pm

£1M for Rob Holding. :(
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Rjs37 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:51 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:59 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm
It's not because we're seen as a soft touch as well is it? I was thinking - who did we last get top dollar for or when did we last get some mugs to overpay?
Got decent wedge for Anelka thanks to him signing a contract extension (under Sammy Lee?)
Yeah Anelka is really the only one that comes to mind and even then I don't think they overpaid for him. Just one of the few instances where we didn't get short-changed. We've never been all that good at negotiations.

I think Anderson will be a lot better in that respect, but with the financial situation that we're in, he may not have that much choice. I think we'll probably demand some clauses on any deals, sell-on and target based bonuses, but I'd be surprised to see us sell Vela for more than 2m up-front. We're desperate for some cash and everyone knows it.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm

I think about now our press should report we are a footbal team and not a cut-price stud farm. We breed good young players and have had quite a few decent ones, more decent than the bargain basement some clubs seem to see us as. So, unless sensible offers are going to be made, the shop's shut. We're first and foremost a football club and need to keep players if we're going to survive as one. If a business is all we are, football as Bolton Wanderers will soon be on the way out in favour of real estate. You might tell me we're a selling club: That might have worked in the past, but won't work where we are right now. Take a leaf from the supermarket's book; they only sell date-jaded stuff at cut price; anything new goes up in price overnight week by week. Why would Madine (apart from roots location) want to swap one bottom end club for another except they might offer a few bob more in wages ? That won't do him that much good if they get relegated.
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 pm

Anelka is probably our best sale in recent years, although I seem to remember a few on here thinking we were letting him go cheaply at the time. In hindsight it turned out about right for both parties.

Madine would almost certainly be offered a significant pay rise by the Mackems which could turn his head. £4m + Vaughan?
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