The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
11
41%
Conservatives
10
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
2
7%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
4%
Planet Hobo
1
4%
 
Total votes: 27

Hoboh
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:42 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:15 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:09 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:37 am
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:30 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:24 pm
We all know Hoboh will vote Tory this time! No need to pretend otherwise.

Then you know more than me buddy.

I've seen first hand the assault on the disabled and it ain't right, Labour have hardly stated they would stop it either.
Given things change over time, Hobes, who do you think will deliver what is closest to your expectations on Brexit?

The reason I ask, is they now have the opportunity to spell out what Brexit will actually look like (below the "Brexit means Brexit" soundbite that actually tells you Fck all). They also have the ability to change its shape and whoever is elected will tell you that their democratic mandate is this one (rather than any previous one).

What are your thoughts regarding this? If for example the Lib Dens were elected, which I don't believe they will be then Brexit would almost certainly end up a different shape than the one I suspect you envisage...but all parties now have the opportunity to adapt Brexit's "shape"
Hand on heart I just wish they would get on with Brexit and given all the noise and underwear changing coming from both the EU and here I wouldn't put a fiver on anything yet.

The GE result affects people far more than Brexit will and as such I will be looking for those who actually care about the people of this Island rather than mither about something that as yet has no form, shape or anything palpable to dwell on.
May has called the election and is trying to make it all about Brexit.

Think only one party will try and ignore Brexit and that will be Labour.
Now, did I say I wish to ignore Brexit?

I'm of the opinion there are matters closer to home that need dealing with, at least while we are an independent nation :D

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Lord Kangana
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:07 pm

Given that we haven't exited the EU yet, how can anyone prove whether or not it'll cost the average household in excess of £4k?

I'd still like to know how and in what ways our lives are going to be better. Anyone?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by bedwetter2 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:27 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:25 am
bedwetter2 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:04 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:40 am
Hoboh wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 pm
Does this dammed woman never give up?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ard-brexit

It was all to do with parliamentary procedures was it?

Bare faced liar.
I hope not, the bare faced liars promising £350m extra for the NHS need holding to Account.
Oft repeated this was a "promise" rather than the reduction in EU fees could be used for a variety of things including the NHS. Just continuing to state "promise" doesn't make it so.
Image

I mean, it wasn't a "promise". Neither was it a loose, hey guys, we might be able to do this....

It was a very direct campaigning strategy. That was based on absolutely nothing. And was backtracked on immediately.

In short, a bare faced lie to appeal to thickos.

No, it wasn't a promise and Vote Leave was not the Tories either. That campaign included plenty of Tories but also included a few Labour and other individuals. At that time the figure of £350m quoted was the gross amount with a net amount of approximately £245m per week. That has now increased.

I have no problem with politicians telling porkies as has been pointed out by Rjs. That's their job and has it ever been so. So long as everyone has a robustly questioning attitude, then great. The only one's who don't seem to exercise their critical faculties are the majority of interviewers in the media who irritate the bejasus out of me by just accepting statements made to them by the politicos without asking for empirical evidence.

Whilst I think you have a very low opinion of the mental capacity of your fellow humans, I believe that the electorate in general vote fairly logically based upon their personal circumstance. After all, there are very few truly altruistic voters who would sacrifice what they think may be good for them for the better common good.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:58 am

The 350M ignored the rebate which is automatically applied. Which brings the contribution down to 245M. You cannot call that gross or net because the rebate amount is never sent.

Then on top of that it ignored the money we receive back from the EU for research, regional development, farming etc...

The poster was a deliberate outright lie. There isn't any question or debate to be had of that. Not just the entirely wrong number but the fact they knew it was never going to the NHS.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lord Kangana » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:46 am

The most idiotic part of the statement is the 'give' bit.

I 'give' Tesco a f*cking fortune every week. The problem is, I eat my cake. I'm not sure what level of moron the till person would take me for if I wanted the goods and my money back.

Which I think is BWFCi's point. I think. I'm sure he'll be happy to correct me.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:35 am

Lord Kangana wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:46 am
The most idiotic part of the statement is the 'give' bit.

I 'give' Tesco a f*cking fortune every week. The problem is, I eat my cake. I'm not sure what level of moron the till person would take me for if I wanted the goods and my money back.

Which I think is BWFCi's point. I think. I'm sure he'll be happy to correct me.
Well yes. That and the number being completely wrong in the first place.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:03 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:35 am
Lord Kangana wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:46 am
The most idiotic part of the statement is the 'give' bit.

I 'give' Tesco a f*cking fortune every week. The problem is, I eat my cake. I'm not sure what level of moron the till person would take me for if I wanted the goods and my money back.

Which I think is BWFCi's point. I think. I'm sure he'll be happy to correct me.
Well yes. That and the number being completely wrong in the first place.

Well if you over pay for your cake........

I suppose the need for an emergency budget, the £4500 under everyone's sofa and the outbreak of WW3 were true as well :roll:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:19 am

Well, if Trump keeps waving his willy around then we might have WW3 and as for the emergency budget I'm sure was a lie but we'll never know because the boss scarpered as quick as he could. The fact is, that bus was (to many people) akin to a manifesto pledge. You can argue whether that is right or wrong, but knowingly they knew it would influence a lot of people to vote their way because of that statement that clearly no one had any intention of fighting for.

It's like immigration. I'd argue many people voting leave thought they were voting for a serious cut in immigration, yet the morning after the likes of Hannan, with a smirk, said "oh no, not a reduction" and something along the lines of "the immigrants will just come from other places".

Now everything that alluded to something great has morphed in to "take back control" despite the fact we hardly used the control we already had.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Rjs37 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:05 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:58 am
The poster was a deliberate outright lie. There isn't any question or debate to be had of that. Not just the entirely wrong number but the fact they knew it was never going to the NHS.
Just like the point I was making about £4300 figure too. They knew they were taking out of their asses.

Assuming that we have to use the same numbers, but make the two statements more truthful they'd be akin to:

"Before the rebate, we're liable to pay the EU around £350m per week. We also get some money back for various subsidies which we'd probably have to continue paying. We may or may not use some of the leftover money for the NHS*.
*Probably not going to happen. Brexit means Brexit."

"Based on coming to a similar trade deal as Canada, our projected GDP* would be around £4300 less per household than if we stayed in the EU. The GDP is still expected to grow, just a little less.
*i.e. not the average household income. This was also based on incorrect population numbers, and lots of other facts that we've twisted to make the numbers seem worse than what other more accurate projections actually think.

Not exactly as snappy are they?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:16 am

Hoboh wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:03 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:35 am
Lord Kangana wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:46 am
The most idiotic part of the statement is the 'give' bit.

I 'give' Tesco a f*cking fortune every week. The problem is, I eat my cake. I'm not sure what level of moron the till person would take me for if I wanted the goods and my money back.

Which I think is BWFCi's point. I think. I'm sure he'll be happy to correct me.
Well yes. That and the number being completely wrong in the first place.

Well if you over pay for your cake........

I suppose the need for an emergency budget, the £4500 under everyone's sofa and the outbreak of WW3 were true as well :roll:
Presenting projections and potential outcomes in a certain light is one thing. We still don't actually know how it will affect wages and the economy longer term. But presenting that in a threatening way is one thing. It is what politicians do, like it or not.

Running a campaign based on a figure that is wrong, making what many see as a promise that you have no power to enact, and swearing blind it is true, till a minute after the vote then retracting it, is of course a lot, lot worse. However you like to spin it.

Having said that people in this country don't seem to care very much for honesty and integrity. So not sure it matters. I mean we have a staunch remainer running the country, trying to pretend she is the face and protector of all things Brexit. Someone has to run that one by me again.....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:39 am

I think staunch is stretching it rather a lot Insano.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:48 am

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:39 am
I think staunch is stretching it rather a lot Insano.
Oh she played a very calculated game in public. Absolutely.

However...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... out-brexit

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:54 am

Nothing there suggests she's a staunch supporter of the EU, just that it could be damaging to business to leave. Some people don't give a shit about what damage might be caused, they just want out. We don't really know where on the spectrum she is.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:03 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:54 am
Nothing there suggests she's a staunch supporter of the EU, just that it could be damaging to business to leave. Some people don't give a shit about what damage might be caused, they just want out. We don't really know where on the spectrum she is.
Suggests she was fairly firmly in the remain camp.

Frankly I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. I find it unbelievable that the British people and media seem to be under her spell.
Last edited by BWFC_Insane on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Rjs37 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:26 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:03 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:54 am
Nothing there suggests she's a staunch supporter of the EU, just that it could be damaging to business to leave. Some people don't give a shit about what damage might be caused, they just want out. We don't really know where on the spectrum she is.
Suggests she was fairly firmly in the remain camp.

Frankly I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. I find it unbelievable that the British people and media seem to be under he spell.
When the opposition leaders are currently Corbyn, Farron and Sturgeon, you find it unbelievable that people are backing Theresa May?

Plus when you consider that Boris Johnson was the favourite to become PM, I think a lot of people are just counting their blessings at how much worse it could've been.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:38 pm

Rjs37 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:26 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:03 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:54 am
Nothing there suggests she's a staunch supporter of the EU, just that it could be damaging to business to leave. Some people don't give a shit about what damage might be caused, they just want out. We don't really know where on the spectrum she is.
Suggests she was fairly firmly in the remain camp.

Frankly I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. I find it unbelievable that the British people and media seem to be under he spell.
When the opposition leaders are currently Corbyn, Farron and Sturgeon, you find it unbelievable that people are backing Theresa May?

Plus when you consider that Boris Johnson was the favourite to become PM, I think a lot of people are just counting their blessings at how much worse it could've been.
Ermm yes I do. She's flip-flopped to suit her own career in the most flagrant and blatant of manners. She's a walking vox pop saying whatever she thinks the electorate want to hear at the time. I thought at one point that at least she'd be competent but other than getting away with things no leader in the past 20 years has, she doesn't actually seem very good at anything. But honestly, May is terrible. She's going to win, but still she's terrible. She's about as good as Corbyn. Only the right wing media don't point this out so public perception is way off.

And if we're talking leaders, you may not like her politics, but my god does Sturgeon put her to shame. I'd love to have seen Sturgeon rip May to shreds in the TV debate. May isn't even strong enough to do that. I mean she can't lose this election, so one would have thought a TV debate, whilst it would show her up, would at least demonstrate some bottle and leadership.

This is the first election I can remember where I go into it having absolutely no clue who to vote for.

Do I vote Labour to try and prevent the Tories having too large a majority? But then I don't want to vote and endorse Corbyn.

Do I vote Lib Dem, who I think are probably the best option for me and waste a vote?

Or waste it on some other minority party?

It is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for me.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr Hotdog » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:04 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:38 pm
This is the first election I can remember where I go into it having absolutely no clue who to vote for.

Do I vote Labour to try and prevent the Tories having too large a majority? But then I don't want to vote and endorse Corbyn.

Do I vote Lib Dem, who I think are probably the best option for me and waste a vote?

Or waste it on some other minority party?

It is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for me.
It's a toughie, but try and focus on policy not personality.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:16 pm

Dr Hotdog wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:04 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:38 pm
This is the first election I can remember where I go into it having absolutely no clue who to vote for.

Do I vote Labour to try and prevent the Tories having too large a majority? But then I don't want to vote and endorse Corbyn.

Do I vote Lib Dem, who I think are probably the best option for me and waste a vote?

Or waste it on some other minority party?

It is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for me.
It's a toughie, but try and focus on policy not personality.
If I do that I have to vote Plaid Cymru or SNP. As neither will be an option I have an issue.

Think Lib Dems is next closest, but then I am essentially wasting a vote and helping the Tories out.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr Hotdog » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:36 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:16 pm
Dr Hotdog wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:04 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:38 pm
This is the first election I can remember where I go into it having absolutely no clue who to vote for.

Do I vote Labour to try and prevent the Tories having too large a majority? But then I don't want to vote and endorse Corbyn.

Do I vote Lib Dem, who I think are probably the best option for me and waste a vote?

Or waste it on some other minority party?

It is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for me.
It's a toughie, but try and focus on policy not personality.
If I do that I have to vote Plaid Cymru or SNP. As neither will be an option I have an issue.

Think Lib Dems is next closest, but then I am essentially wasting a vote and helping the Tories out.
Depending on your constituency, aye. I live in the Gorton constituency and that is up there with the absolute safest Red seats in the country. Not sure that a Lib Dem (or George Galloway - LOL) vote would do much from my POV.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:49 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:38 pm
Rjs37 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:26 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:03 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:54 am
Nothing there suggests she's a staunch supporter of the EU, just that it could be damaging to business to leave. Some people don't give a shit about what damage might be caused, they just want out. We don't really know where on the spectrum she is.
Suggests she was fairly firmly in the remain camp.

Frankly I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. I find it unbelievable that the British people and media seem to be under he spell.
When the opposition leaders are currently Corbyn, Farron and Sturgeon, you find it unbelievable that people are backing Theresa May?

Plus when you consider that Boris Johnson was the favourite to become PM, I think a lot of people are just counting their blessings at how much worse it could've been.
Ermm yes I do. She's flip-flopped to suit her own career in the most flagrant and blatant of manners. She's a walking vox pop saying whatever she thinks the electorate want to hear at the time. I thought at one point that at least she'd be competent but other than getting away with things no leader in the past 20 years has, she doesn't actually seem very good at anything. But honestly, May is terrible. She's going to win, but still she's terrible. She's about as good as Corbyn. Only the right wing media don't point this out so public perception is way off.

And if we're talking leaders, you may not like her politics, but my god does Sturgeon put her to shame. I'd love to have seen Sturgeon rip May to shreds in the TV debate. May isn't even strong enough to do that. I mean she can't lose this election, so one would have thought a TV debate, whilst it would show her up, would at least demonstrate some bottle and leadership.

This is the first election I can remember where I go into it having absolutely no clue who to vote for.

Do I vote Labour to try and prevent the Tories having too large a majority? But then I don't want to vote and endorse Corbyn.

Do I vote Lib Dem, who I think are probably the best option for me and waste a vote?

Or waste it on some other minority party?

It is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for me.

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Wee jimmy 'one policy' fish a good leader!!!!!!!

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

:doh:

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