The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
11
41%
Conservatives
10
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
2
7%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
4%
Planet Hobo
1
4%
 
Total votes: 27

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:32 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:29 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:52 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:19 pm
^
I've given up all hope for the Labour party since Corbyn and the pro-Palestine anti-Israel mob have taken power.
What makes me laugh is we have the president of the US dangerously stoking up Islamophobia via his social media. Using faked videos.

Yet Corbyn, who I think anyone would be really hard pushed to make the case that he doesn't want peace and harmony in all regions, gets flak. I mean Corbyn has said some stupid things. But anyone who thinks he genuinely wants to stoke up anti-semiitism in the way Trump is islamophobia wants their bumps feeling.

Though I have a funny feeling, that you will fall into this category. So in advance, I'll say, I respectfully and wholeheartedly agree.
3. There is a fundamental difference between anti-semitism and Islamophobia. The first is racist and out of order, the second is a matter of opinion about what other people think.
And to illustrate what I'm saying: it is wrong to denigrate somebody for the colour of their skin because they have no choice in that matter, but it's ok to denigrate somebody who talks 'wank' ( like a redneck, say) because that is an opinion they have formed.
Jews are born Jews, just like Caucasians are born white, but Muslims, or Rednecks, aren't born , they are inculcated and can change their opinion at any time they want.
Not really. Given that Semite originally refers to Jews and Arabs (many of whom may be Muslim and not Jewish).

So, I don't buy your distinction.

And many people aren't born "Jewish" but convert to Judaism. And I strong suspect if they were discriminated against the term "anti-semitism" would be used.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by boltonboris » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:11 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:22 am
boltonboris wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:05 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:03 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:30 pm

May called an unnecessary election that made her hostage to the DUP and Mogg & co
At the time, it wasn't unnecessary - It was a smart move. She was miles ahead of Corbyn and Labour and looked like it would be a land slide, but one took a backseat and waited for the apparently inevitable and the other led an energetic, impassioned campaign that whilst very well managed and acted on, has led to a huge increase in division and hatred in this country.

It really was a clusterfuck of epic proportions, the way it all panned out.
A really odd view. Corbyn spoke to real actual people and engaged them. Agree with him or not, he did that.

May appeared robotic and scared and didn't seem to care for much beyond her own political skin. May also led a campaign based on fear (see why remain lost) rather than positive action. Corbyn promised positive action to people, whether he could deliver it or not.

The real dividing issue was that in the campaign Labour tried to appeal to real concerns people have whereas the Tories tried to play up to the press stereotype of Corbyn led Labour and it backfired spectacularly. Yes they "won" the election but it was an election where going in, even a majority of 50 was a disastrous failure given the advantages they had.

The problems the Tory have since remind me of Major's government. They've been in a long time. Stuff is going wrong. Politically and on a wider basis. They can't really blame others for it, and the party is now starting to turn in on itself. Their only hope is that Labour cannot repeat their last election performance and the press do a good job on Corbyn that resonates more widely and across the younger voters. If not I think the next election will be a hung parliament with Labour marginally ahead of the Tories. Now that would be a mess.
He absolutely engaged people. But don't pretend his "nicer, gentler politics" rings true. There is absolute hatred and division between left and right now in this country. Much of that is down to Corbyn/Momentum and their rhetoric. They're driving it. They're pulling out people's passion and too much of it is misguided. To the point now, that there are witch-hunts against legitimately sound businesses who choose to advertise in X or Y publication.
I think personally that the division has been caused by the Tory party and the right wing press. If they hadn't behaved so appallingly towards Corbyn a) the Tories would have a majority now and b) Corbyn wouldn't still be Labour leader.

Sometimes being aggressive and attacking people backfires. It did here.

There are of course loonies on both sides of Labour and both sides of politics generally. Any party that houses that Rees-Mogg character shouldn't be throwing stones at anyone. One of, if not the most disgraceful human beings I've ever come across.

I think the right and right wing media have got away with too much for too long so its good they are being brought into check.
See you can't blame the right, for people displaying placards saying "Kill Tories", "Hang Tories" etc like we've seen in Manchester and in streets and outside poll stations during the election
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:27 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:22 am
boltonboris wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:05 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:03 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:30 pm

May called an unnecessary election that made her hostage to the DUP and Mogg & co
At the time, it wasn't unnecessary - It was a smart move. She was miles ahead of Corbyn and Labour and looked like it would be a land slide, but one took a backseat and waited for the apparently inevitable and the other led an energetic, impassioned campaign that whilst very well managed and acted on, has led to a huge increase in division and hatred in this country.

It really was a clusterfuck of epic proportions, the way it all panned out.
A really odd view. Corbyn spoke to real actual people and engaged them. Agree with him or not, he did that.

May appeared robotic and scared and didn't seem to care for much beyond her own political skin. May also led a campaign based on fear (see why remain lost) rather than positive action. Corbyn promised positive action to people, whether he could deliver it or not.

The real dividing issue was that in the campaign Labour tried to appeal to real concerns people have whereas the Tories tried to play up to the press stereotype of Corbyn led Labour and it backfired spectacularly. Yes they "won" the election but it was an election where going in, even a majority of 50 was a disastrous failure given the advantages they had.

The problems the Tory have since remind me of Major's government. They've been in a long time. Stuff is going wrong. Politically and on a wider basis. They can't really blame others for it, and the party is now starting to turn in on itself. Their only hope is that Labour cannot repeat their last election performance and the press do a good job on Corbyn that resonates more widely and across the younger voters. If not I think the next election will be a hung parliament with Labour marginally ahead of the Tories. Now that would be a mess.
He absolutely engaged people. But don't pretend his "nicer, gentler politics" rings true. There is absolute hatred and division between left and right now in this country. Much of that is down to Corbyn/Momentum and their rhetoric. They're driving it. They're pulling out people's passion and too much of it is misguided. To the point now, that there are witch-hunts against legitimately sound businesses who choose to advertise in X or Y publication.
I think personally that the division has been caused by the Tory party and the right wing press. If they hadn't behaved so appallingly towards Corbyn a) the Tories would have a majority now and b) Corbyn wouldn't still be Labour leader.

Sometimes being aggressive and attacking people backfires. It did here.

There are of course loonies on both sides of Labour and both sides of politics generally. Any party that houses that Rees-Mogg character shouldn't be throwing stones at anyone. One of, if not the most disgraceful human beings I've ever come across.

I think the right and right wing media have got away with too much for too long so its good they are being brought into check.
See you can't blame the right, for people displaying placards saying "Kill Tories", "Hang Tories" etc like we've seen in Manchester and in streets and outside poll stations during the election
I think everyone needs to take responsibility. The whole discourse is distasteful. But we have a right wing dominated press that have behaved for decades in the most shameful and provocative way. That is the biggest scandal in this regard. If you can't admit that then you can't have a sensible discussion about this.

There are nutjobs all over on all sides of the political spectrum.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm

I think everyone needs to take responsibility. The whole discourse is distasteful. But we have a right wing dominated press that have behaved for decades in the most shameful and provocative way. That is the biggest scandal in this regard. If you can't admit that then you can't have a sensible discussion about this.
So how's about we start with the brick chucking, riot at any event, black clad masked Ninja's from 'militant' that now have 'Momentum'?
When the wheels come off those little shits or we get licenced to shoot the buggers on sight, chuck in the political pricks and soft arses ruining the education system breeding the I, me, self entitlements, then we maybe able to talk rationally.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:15 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm
I think everyone needs to take responsibility. The whole discourse is distasteful. But we have a right wing dominated press that have behaved for decades in the most shameful and provocative way. That is the biggest scandal in this regard. If you can't admit that then you can't have a sensible discussion about this.
So how's about we start with the brick chucking, riot at any event, black clad masked Ninja's from 'militant' that now have 'Momentum'?
When the wheels come off those little shits or we get licenced to shoot the buggers on sight, chuck in the political pricks and soft arses ruining the education system breeding the I, me, self entitlements, then we maybe able to talk rationally.
We could start with you not making nonsense up. Though I suspect that's too much to ask.

I'm very happy to tackle the violent elements on any side of the political spectrum. How about we throw in the BNP its supporters, the EDL and the far right morons who commit acts of violence and incite hatred.

Deal with those on both sides equally. That is fine by me.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:27 pm
There are nutjobs all over on all sides of the political spectrum.
Which might explain in part why the vote result, even the motion itself, either way is all a bit meaningless then? Having a government is supposed to take the commons sense, best for everyone view and run the country accordingly. A bit unlikely really when "the opposition " is a major part of whichever party is in the driving seat. Seems a bit mission impossible then, does it not, when the politicians spend more time fighting each other than being coalition minded? Let's not pretend it hasn't been that way for ever and a day. To even imagine there is an easy solution anywhere is fantasy. As I have said before, a thousand years of government that hasn't produced an acceptable solution is hardly likely to do it in a couple of days. Anybody even dreaming that the Irish problems for one, will ever go away needs a major headshake. What did Michael Collins say: "I've given the country a peace treaty it has wanted for seven hundred years. In doing so I've probably signed my death warrent." He had, he was assasinated a short time later. The problem isn't with mandates, rules or laws, it with people. It always will be.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:09 pm
The only ones suffering are those supporting and ruled by barbaric anti-semite factions such as Hamas.
I'm not going to the argue the sides respective claim to the land with you or even the violence on both sides. Some of that's been going on for centuries but that last point is crap and you know it.

For starters- the children living in villages without running water because it's been turned off by the illegal settlement next door? How's that the fault of Hamas and not the Israeli govt?
It's always the poor suffering children, never any suffering adults!
Anyway, I totally dispute any nasty illegal Jewish people have cut off any babies' tap water.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:09 pm
The only ones suffering are those supporting and ruled by barbaric anti-semite factions such as Hamas.
I'm not going to the argue the sides respective claim to the land with you or even the violence on both sides. Some of that's been going on for centuries but that last point is crap and you know it.

For starters- the children living in villages without running water because it's been turned off by the illegal settlement next door? How's that the fault of Hamas and not the Israeli govt?
It's always the poor suffering children, never any suffering adults!
Anyway, I totally dispute any nasty illegal Jewish people have cut off any babies' tap water.
Ha! Well if I'd said adults you'd have said it was their own fault for voting for Hamas! Much like it was the victims of 7/7 own fault because they voted for Blair? :roll:

You're right re the settlements and villages. I made them up. Just don't Google Alfei Menashe or Arab ar Ramadin. It was first exposed there by a bunch of anti semites from an Israeli human rights group. Not only did they turn their water off , they dumped their effluent on them too
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:06 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:15 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm
I think everyone needs to take responsibility. The whole discourse is distasteful. But we have a right wing dominated press that have behaved for decades in the most shameful and provocative way. That is the biggest scandal in this regard. If you can't admit that then you can't have a sensible discussion about this.
So how's about we start with the brick chucking, riot at any event, black clad masked Ninja's from 'militant' that now have 'Momentum'?
When the wheels come off those little shits or we get licenced to shoot the buggers on sight, chuck in the political pricks and soft arses ruining the education system breeding the I, me, self entitlements, then we maybe able to talk rationally.
We could start with you not making nonsense up. Though I suspect that's too much to ask.

I'm very happy to tackle the violent elements on any side of the political spectrum. How about we throw in the BNP its supporters, the EDL and the far right morons who commit acts of violence and incite hatred.

Deal with those on both sides equally. That is fine by me.
Violence, no problem clamp down on it on any side, I kinda draw the line a little on the 'hate speech' thing because too many view Boo! as hate now a days.
If it was rational like the use of the N word etc. No problem but far to many weep at anything now.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:09 pm
The only ones suffering are those supporting and ruled by barbaric anti-semite factions such as Hamas.
I'm not going to the argue the sides respective claim to the land with you or even the violence on both sides. Some of that's been going on for centuries but that last point is crap and you know it.

For starters- the children living in villages without running water because it's been turned off by the illegal settlement next door? How's that the fault of Hamas and not the Israeli govt?
It's always the poor suffering children, never any suffering adults!
Anyway, I totally dispute any nasty illegal Jewish people have cut off any babies' tap water.
Ha! Well if I'd said adults you'd have said it was their own fault for voting for Hamas! Much like it was the victims of 7/7 own fault because they voted for Blair? :roll:

You're right re the settlements and villages. I made them up. Just don't Google Alfei Menashe or Arab ar Ramadin. It was first exposed there by a bunch of anti semites from an Israeli human rights group. Not only did they turn their water off , they dumped their effluent on them too
Did you know that the immediate cause of the 1967 war (the Third Arab-Israeli war) was the planned Syrian attempt to divert the waters of the river Jordan away from Israel and deprive Israel of water.

If you read extremist claptrap you get forcefed bullshit.*

*by that I mean the following: By flagging 'The Suffering of The Palestinian People' which in essence you mean some Bedouin were doused in effluent and a bunch of ultra orthodox nutjobs may (or may not) have turned a water supply off temporarily, and then conflating that into 'The Suffering', well, everything becomes meaningless.
(PS the third Arab-Israeli war did, in part, start because Syria did really plan on diverting the River Jordan away from Israel.)
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:32 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:06 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:15 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm
I think everyone needs to take responsibility. The whole discourse is distasteful. But we have a right wing dominated press that have behaved for decades in the most shameful and provocative way. That is the biggest scandal in this regard. If you can't admit that then you can't have a sensible discussion about this.
So how's about we start with the brick chucking, riot at any event, black clad masked Ninja's from 'militant' that now have 'Momentum'?
When the wheels come off those little shits or we get licenced to shoot the buggers on sight, chuck in the political pricks and soft arses ruining the education system breeding the I, me, self entitlements, then we maybe able to talk rationally.
We could start with you not making nonsense up. Though I suspect that's too much to ask.

I'm very happy to tackle the violent elements on any side of the political spectrum. How about we throw in the BNP its supporters, the EDL and the far right morons who commit acts of violence and incite hatred.

Deal with those on both sides equally. That is fine by me.
Violence, no problem clamp down on it on any side, I kinda draw the line a little on the 'hate speech' thing because too many view Boo! as hate now a days.
If it was rational like the use of the N word etc. No problem but far to many weep at anything now.
If you're fine with free speech then you can't have an issue with anyone in the education system either. Though I suspect it goes rather one way.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:38 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:09 pm
The only ones suffering are those supporting and ruled by barbaric anti-semite factions such as Hamas.
I'm not going to the argue the sides respective claim to the land with you or even the violence on both sides. Some of that's been going on for centuries but that last point is crap and you know it.

For starters- the children living in villages without running water because it's been turned off by the illegal settlement next door? How's that the fault of Hamas and not the Israeli govt?
It's always the poor suffering children, never any suffering adults!
Anyway, I totally dispute any nasty illegal Jewish people have cut off any babies' tap water.
Ha! Well if I'd said adults you'd have said it was their own fault for voting for Hamas! Much like it was the victims of 7/7 own fault because they voted for Blair? :roll:

You're right re the settlements and villages. I made them up. Just don't Google Alfei Menashe or Arab ar Ramadin. It was first exposed there by a bunch of anti semites from an Israeli human rights group. Not only did they turn their water off , they dumped their effluent on them too
Did you know that the immediate cause of the 1967 war (the Third Arab-Israeli war) was the planned Syrian attempt to divert the waters of the river Jordan away from Israel and deprive Israel of water.

If you read extremist claptrap you get forcefed bullshit.*

*by that I mean the following: By flagging 'The Suffering of The Palestinian People' which in essence you mean some Bedouin were doused in effluent and a bunch of ultra orthodox nutjobs may (or may not) have turned a water supply off temporarily, and then conflating that into 'The Suffering', well, everything becomes meaningless.
(PS the third Arab-Israeli war did, in part, start because Syria did really plan on diverting the River Jordan away from Israel.)
For clarity is your position that the Israelis have never done nothing honest guv it's all them nasty Palestinian?

Because all I seem to see is denials and obfuscation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:41 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:09 pm
The only ones suffering are those supporting and ruled by barbaric anti-semite factions such as Hamas.
I'm not going to the argue the sides respective claim to the land with you or even the violence on both sides. Some of that's been going on for centuries but that last point is crap and you know it.

For starters- the children living in villages without running water because it's been turned off by the illegal settlement next door? How's that the fault of Hamas and not the Israeli govt?
It's always the poor suffering children, never any suffering adults!
Anyway, I totally dispute any nasty illegal Jewish people have cut off any babies' tap water.
Ha! Well if I'd said adults you'd have said it was their own fault for voting for Hamas! Much like it was the victims of 7/7 own fault because they voted for Blair? :roll:

You're right re the settlements and villages. I made them up. Just don't Google Alfei Menashe or Arab ar Ramadin. It was first exposed there by a bunch of anti semites from an Israeli human rights group. Not only did they turn their water off , they dumped their effluent on them too
Did you know that the immediate cause of the 1967 war (the Third Arab-Israeli war) was the planned Syrian attempt to divert the waters of the river Jordan away from Israel and deprive Israel of water.

If you read extremist claptrap you get forcefed bullshit.*

*by that I mean the following: By flagging 'The Suffering of The Palestinian People' which in essence you mean some Bedouin were doused in effluent and a bunch of ultra orthodox nutjobs may (or may not) have turned a water supply off temporarily, and then conflating that into 'The Suffering', well, everything becomes meaningless.
(PS the third Arab-Israeli war did, in part, start because Syria did really plan on diverting the River Jordan away from Israel.)
Well I suppose I could have referred to the random demolition of houses, the destruction of Olive trees, the restrictions on medical aid and supplies but I suspect you'd choose to pretend that's not happening either.

As in apartheid South Africa, there's plenty wrong on both sides and as in South Africa there's one very powerful side against a much weaker one. Mind you, there were plenty of folk in the 70s & 80s that refused to see anything wrong with the SA govts actions.

For a chap who's thrown around the anti semite label on here, you don't think you could be a teeny bit racist/Islamaphobic do you?
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:32 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:06 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:15 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm
I think everyone needs to take responsibility. The whole discourse is distasteful. But we have a right wing dominated press that have behaved for decades in the most shameful and provocative way. That is the biggest scandal in this regard. If you can't admit that then you can't have a sensible discussion about this.
So how's about we start with the brick chucking, riot at any event, black clad masked Ninja's from 'militant' that now have 'Momentum'?
When the wheels come off those little shits or we get licenced to shoot the buggers on sight, chuck in the political pricks and soft arses ruining the education system breeding the I, me, self entitlements, then we maybe able to talk rationally.
We could start with you not making nonsense up. Though I suspect that's too much to ask.

I'm very happy to tackle the violent elements on any side of the political spectrum. How about we throw in the BNP its supporters, the EDL and the far right morons who commit acts of violence and incite hatred.

Deal with those on both sides equally. That is fine by me.
Violence, no problem clamp down on it on any side, I kinda draw the line a little on the 'hate speech' thing because too many view Boo! as hate now a days.
If it was rational like the use of the N word etc. No problem but far to many weep at anything now.
If you're fine with free speech then you can't have an issue with anyone in the education system either. Though I suspect it goes rather one way.
Free speech is not the same as brainwashing young impressionable people, more so those that suffer meltdown on reality.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:24 am

Both sides are a bunch of ...ricks with a lot to answer for. It'll never be resolved in our lifetime due to the aforementioned ...ricks.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:22 am

Capitulation, congratulations Theresa and lurch, your shares in Vaseline just increased 300% and are expected to continue to rise when the flakes get up some time this afternoon.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:05 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:22 am
Capitulation, congratulations Theresa and lurch, your shares in Vaseline just increased 300% and are expected to continue to rise when the flakes get up some time this afternoon.
In all seriousness, what choice did they have? We're in a corner here, despite what you might like to pretend. The government haven't got the lee-way to fight anyone, especially Business who already feel they don't have the information they need and need the trade talks to have started yesterday.

The Government have backed themselves and us into a corner. Our biggest bargaining chips of remaining in the single market and customs union in some form, were thrown off the table due to pressure from the right of the Tory party. So what are we actually taking into talks? A begging bowl and a wish it seems to me.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:13 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:38 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:09 pm
The only ones suffering are those supporting and ruled by barbaric anti-semite factions such as Hamas.
I'm not going to the argue the sides respective claim to the land with you or even the violence on both sides. Some of that's been going on for centuries but that last point is crap and you know it.

For starters- the children living in villages without running water because it's been turned off by the illegal settlement next door? How's that the fault of Hamas and not the Israeli govt?
It's always the poor suffering children, never any suffering adults!
Anyway, I totally dispute any nasty illegal Jewish people have cut off any babies' tap water.
Ha! Well if I'd said adults you'd have said it was their own fault for voting for Hamas! Much like it was the victims of 7/7 own fault because they voted for Blair? :roll:

You're right re the settlements and villages. I made them up. Just don't Google Alfei Menashe or Arab ar Ramadin. It was first exposed there by a bunch of anti semites from an Israeli human rights group. Not only did they turn their water off , they dumped their effluent on them too
Did you know that the immediate cause of the 1967 war (the Third Arab-Israeli war) was the planned Syrian attempt to divert the waters of the river Jordan away from Israel and deprive Israel of water.

If you read extremist claptrap you get forcefed bullshit.*

*by that I mean the following: By flagging 'The Suffering of The Palestinian People' which in essence you mean some Bedouin were doused in effluent and a bunch of ultra orthodox nutjobs may (or may not) have turned a water supply off temporarily, and then conflating that into 'The Suffering', well, everything becomes meaningless.
(PS the third Arab-Israeli war did, in part, start because Syria did really plan on diverting the River Jordan away from Israel.)
For clarity is your position that the Israelis have never done nothing honest guv it's all them nasty Palestinian?

Because all I seem to see is denials and obfuscation.
The Israelis have been fighting for their very existence from before the moment of their foundation.
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lo Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:17 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:41 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:09 pm
The only ones suffering are those supporting and ruled by barbaric anti-semite factions such as Hamas.
I'm not going to the argue the sides respective claim to the land with you or even the violence on both sides. Some of that's been going on for centuries but that last point is crap and you know it.

For starters- the children living in villages without running water because it's been turned off by the illegal settlement next door? How's that the fault of Hamas and not the Israeli govt?
It's always the poor suffering children, never any suffering adults!
Anyway, I totally dispute any nasty illegal Jewish people have cut off any babies' tap water.
Ha! Well if I'd said adults you'd have said it was their own fault for voting for Hamas! Much like it was the victims of 7/7 own fault because they voted for Blair? :roll:

You're right re the settlements and villages. I made them up. Just don't Google Alfei Menashe or Arab ar Ramadin. It was first exposed there by a bunch of anti semites from an Israeli human rights group. Not only did they turn their water off , they dumped their effluent on them too
Did you know that the immediate cause of the 1967 war (the Third Arab-Israeli war) was the planned Syrian attempt to divert the waters of the river Jordan away from Israel and deprive Israel of water.

If you read extremist claptrap you get forcefed bullshit.*

*by that I mean the following: By flagging 'The Suffering of The Palestinian People' which in essence you mean some Bedouin were doused in effluent and a bunch of ultra orthodox nutjobs may (or may not) have turned a water supply off temporarily, and then conflating that into 'The Suffering', well, everything becomes meaningless.
(PS the third Arab-Israeli war did, in part, start because Syria did really plan on diverting the River Jordan away from Israel.)
Well I suppose I could have referred to the random demolition of houses, the destruction of Olive trees, the restrictions on medical aid and supplies but I suspect you'd choose to pretend that's not happening either.

As in apartheid South Africa, there's plenty wrong on both sides and as in South Africa there's one very powerful side against a much weaker one. Mind you, there were plenty of folk in the 70s & 80s that refused to see anything wrong with the SA govts actions.

For a chap who's thrown around the anti semite label on here, you don't think you could be a teeny bit racist/Islamaphobic do you?
Jesus H. Christ! How difficult is this? :roll:
Yes, I am very much Islamophobic. I'm also Judaeophobic and Christianophobic, though not to the same extent (because they don't threaten me in such an existential manner). I totally deny being racist in any manner whatsoever.
But for you to be so pro-Palestine, denies the balance that you supposedly proclaim. To state there's plenty wrong on both sides but declare The Suffering of the Palestinian People, seems to me to be biased. It's usually the basis of such bias is grounded in profound anti-Semitism.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:20 pm

^ There are already media reports blaming Israel for a number of injuries of Palestinians. Palestine Red Crescent stating 51 injured including one seriously, and denouncing Israeli authorities.
And why? Because thousands of protesters stirred up by Hamas have been out hurling stones, and others firing rockets, because the US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Nothing's changed, nobody killed or harmed, but Hamas screams "Death to America" and Fatah unleashes its Day of Rage - and against whom, America, Trump? No.
Blame on both sides, I think not. But no doubt in weeks to come I'll be directed via Google to somebody having lost their life because of an Israeli rubber bullet or such - thus the Suffering of The Palestinians continueth.
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