klasnic

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The Axman
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Re: klasnic

Post by The Axman » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:57 am

The problem there is, as everyone keeps on telling me, is that that requires [whisper it] 4-4-2.

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Re: klasnic

Post by Andy Waller » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:57 am

I wouldn't have him as main striker, I still think he sulks if things aren't going his way. To be fair, he's a talented striker, I just think he's at the wrong club.
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Re: klasnic

Post by thebish » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:58 am

The Axman wrote:The problem there is, as everyone keeps on telling me, is that that requires [whisper it] 4-4-2.

indeed - but is seems the new 4-5-1 is 4-4-2!!! :wink:
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Re: klasnic

Post by The Axman » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:02 am

thebish wrote:
The Axman wrote:The problem there is, as everyone keeps on telling me, is that that requires [whisper it] 4-4-2.

indeed - but is seems the new 4-5-1 is 4-4-2!!! :wink:
Surely you mean the new 4-4-2 is the old 4-5-1 :lol:

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Re: klasnic

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:35 am

Great substitution on Saturday. Credit where it's due. We have options on the bench, and it's looking like they're being used more wisely (and maturely, given alleged Coyle/Klas problems) - including bringing on Muamba for a striker to protect a lead, even if Moo should have started.

As stated, the problem is that 4-5-1 is more likely to stop us losing than 4-4-2, which frequently gets overrun (and we barely ever get anything from a game once we're behind). The single-striker system is easily the most balanced formation, in terms of pitch positioning and balance between attack and defence. Ngog works incredibly hard for the team up top, stretching the game by pressuring defenders on the ball and also making them drop deeper because of his pace. As well as rushing the opponents, this allows space for our more attacking midfielders - the wingers and Mark Davies - to operate. With Klasnic as lone striker, his lack of pace means opponents can push forward to squeeze the game – and they can also amble forward to set up attacks, because he simply won't close them down.

That's not to say Klas doesn't have his place in the team. When he *has* played of late, it has been in a deeper role than Johnny Up Top. That started at Blackburn, when he played behind Ngog (until both were subbed in the nervy latter stages, Klasnic again for a midfielder). Playing just off the front man brings Klasnic's ability on the ball into play: as noted, he can link well with our cleverer players. Saturday's goal was a fine example: note that Miyaichi brought down the longish ball forward, held off a defender and laid it off to Klas, who was running from deep but had the ability to break through and the calmness to score a vital winner.

Trouble is, that 'hole' is the position in which Mark Davies does his best work, far more productively than when he's exiled to the wing. So: Klas or Mavies?

The other option is to play Mavies in central midfield, with NRC or Muamba. Sparky isn't the world's best tackler but he does work hard, and in the first half executed one absolutely perfect block tackle having run back as virtually the last defender. In truth, a 4-4-2 with Mavies in the middle is always likely to be overrun because he doesn't quite share the ability of Holden, Muamba and NRC to spend 90 minutes doing more than a fair share of work, in a division full of five-man midfields.

I still think the best way to line up is Ngog up top, linking with Mavies and two wingers licenced to bomb on because NRC and Muamba are behind them. This has worked frequently, and (unlike Klas) Mavies has the diligence to drop in and cover if Muamba or NRC join the attack. At some point when we're chasing the game there'll come a time where we have to go bolder, swapping one of the two midfield shielders for a striker. When that happens, our best bet is easily Klasnic.

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Re: klasnic

Post by The Axman » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:46 am

And you think that would be the best strategy even in (say for example) the upcoming game against Blackburn. Play 4-5-1 to stop us losing and then change to 4-4-2 with 15 minutes to go so we can score a goal.?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I see what you are saying. I just think sometimes you've got to go for it, rather than hold out because of the fear of losing it.

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Re: klasnic

Post by boltonboris » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:02 am

I think trying our best to keep it at 0 or 1 at our end is the best bet. We have goals from other areas in the team, if we set up right.
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Re: klasnic

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:09 pm

Its nice to have someone on the bench who can change a game with a goal. If he started, we wouldn't. Apart from Sordell maybe?

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Re: klasnic

Post by CAPSLOCK » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:36 pm

DSB, do we have any mileage optas for NGog and Klasnic?

And maybe throw in Pratley, too
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Re: klasnic

Post by Wandering Willy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:59 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: I still think the best way to line up is Ngog up top, linking with Mavies and two wingers licenced to bomb on because NRC and Muamba are behind them.
Oh Lordy - yes indeed.

Good rest of post btw.
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Re: klasnic

Post by chester white » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:49 pm

Coyle got the change spot on in my opinion on Saturday, and I give credit for that, it was a must win game.

Where he's messed up previously is games like Newcastle and Norwich away which we were drawing and relatively comfortable. His gung-ho approach in both games, which by no means were 'must win', cost us points when we were starting to find some form, and sapped us of confidence.

I still would prefer to start with 4-5-1. It just seems to fit us better. I understand Axman's thoughts regarding going for it, but look what happened when we set up positively against Wigan. I think we've only come from behind to win once this season (Everton) and not sure we've even dragged ourselves back into a game to earn a draw!
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Re: klasnic

Post by P.O.S. » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:54 pm

I still feel Klasnic is far more effective being used as an impact sub - how many times has he come on and won us points? Im not convinced he's fit enough for a full 90 even when he's fully fit, if that makes any sense.

Certainly doubt he'd be happy never starting for us though

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Re: klasnic

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:37 pm

spikeykev wrote:I think its another mistake Coyle has made is not giving Ngog and Klasnic a run out together. He played SKD and Ngog together, and SKD and Klasnic a few times, but Klasnic hasn't had a chance to partner Ngog which I believe has potential to be an exciting partnership
coyle seems convinced 442 = anyone plus davies

klasnic hates coyle itk fact then? it seemed obvious like and i recall some stories but havent seen any tevez style paper rumours which are usually about?

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Re: klasnic

Post by Athers » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:42 am

Love or hate the boss his problem is he needs to convince someone somewhere in the world to pay him a decent wedge next year...

Suppose there's always money in China or more likely for him the UAE if he doesn't get a reasonable European club come in for him.
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Re: klasnic

Post by malcd1 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:49 am

Athers wrote:Love or hate the boss his problem is he needs to convince someone somewhere in the world to pay him a decent wedge next year...

Suppose there's always money in China or more likely for him the UAE if he doesn't get a reasonable European club come in for him.
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Re: klasnic

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:43 pm

CAPSLOCK wrote:DSB, do we have any mileage optas for NGog and Klasnic?
And maybe throw in Pratley, too
Sorry CAPS, only just seen this. Not seen any distant stats from Opta - definitely not on our app - but I'll try to have a dig around.
spikeykev wrote:I think its another mistake Coyle has made is not giving Ngog and Klasnic a run out together. He played SKD and Ngog together, and SKD and Klasnic a few times, but Klasnic hasn't had a chance to partner Ngog which I believe has potential to be an exciting partnership
Ngog & Klas played together at Blackburn, Klas deeper than Ngog.
Athers wrote:Love or hate the boss his problem is he needs to convince someone somewhere in the world to pay him a decent wedge next year...
Klas is out of contract. I guess he'll be taking a hit.
chester white wrote:I think we've only come from behind to win once this season (Everton) and not sure we've even dragged ourselves back into a game to earn a draw!
We haven't. Our opposition has scored first in 20 of 28 league games this season, and we've lost all but one (Everton) of them, conceding 52 goals. Details here.
chester white wrote:Coyle got the change spot on in my opinion on Saturday, and I give credit for that, it was a must win game.
Seconded.

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Re: klasnic

Post by Jakerbeef » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:54 pm

All the more reason to keep it tight, play 4-5-1 and make sure we don't concede first, hell or high water.

Draws will keep us up. Better a mutually frustrating pair of 1-1 against Wolves and Blackburn then losing a six-pointer.

The only way I can see Klasnic working in a 4-5-1 is in an advanced Mark Davies position.

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Re: klasnic

Post by Ianmooreslovechild » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:12 pm

Supersub. Why spoil a good thing.Not a starter and 442 is also a nonstarter with good reason as many have said above

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