Wenger... arse

[JW]

You've not really thought this through have you? Every team when they play you fouls to f*ck, then play tappy tappy non-contact the other 36 games of the season? I feel I'm wasting my time here, but please reassure me that you don't actually believe that?

And presumably you think teams don't adapt their tactics to deal with different teams, no? Not only that, we're the only team who consistently plays in the same style no matter what - a weakness of ours as it happens. Chelsea and United can grind out results and bully teams as well as outplay them - back in the days of Vieira, Parlour and Petit we did exactly the same. Nowadays we have a weakness that everyone tries to exploit.

A case in point would be the Barca game on Wednesday - they outdid us by playing exactly how we play against opposition, only doing it better because they are a superior team. And without looking at the stats, we must have committed quite a few fouls on them, far more than they did on us and we ended with I think 5 yellow cards. Because they had all the ball, therefore were fouled more and in amongst those fouls inevitably were a few bad ones, due to frustration of not having the ball and simple maths - the more fouls we commit, the more chance of there being bad ones. In this case Arshavin's foul stands out as pretty bad.

[Lord Kangana]

So you're in full agreement that its give and take then.

[JW]

He played the ball

Wenger might have invented new rules to suit himself, but it's not a foul in the game I grew up with

If that's a foul, we may as well give it all up

Killing football

Haha you're on the wind-up, right?

[JW]

So you're in full agreement that its give and take then.

Well as I said I completely accept that we'll be on the end of bad fouls, it's an inevitability, but it's part of the game, as is the punishment for doing so.

[Bruce Rioja]

What really feck* people off with Wenger, JW, is his insistance that as soon as anyone goes anywhere near one of yours then they're a talentless thug hell bent on ending the careers of your players, yet when one of yours actually goes in long after the ball's gone (Gallas on Mark Davies) then it was simply a "strong challenge".
Oh, and his insistance that you wouldn't loan us Wilshire unless Coyle withdrew his "Assault" comments just add petrol to the flames. The guy might be a master tactician but as a human being he's an absolute wanker.

[Lord Kangana]

I do sense an incredible amount of collective naivety from Arsenal fans of late. Not least for the borderline arrogant statemant (by yourself, above, but by no means exclusive) that Arsenal are the only team that don't change their tactics from game to game. feel free to trawl the Trotters and see how many feel about Coyle's tactics. I'll add the same was said under Megson, and Sammy Lee, and Allardyce.....

Are you getting the picture yet? Its a pschological trick by fans of all clubs to self-agrandise by labelling themselves the least/most/worst/best. It makes us feel important, special, different. In this case, its a psychological weapon being deployed by Arsene to deflect the criticism (and lets be honest, reality) that Arsenal have not been able to keep pace with United and Chelsea. You are not more fouled than anyone else, you like to perceive that you are. Thats your trick. Ours of late has been for fans to criticise each other as "the worst in the country". Neither has a grain of truth.

[H. Pedersen]

What really feck people off with Wenger, JW, is his insistance that as soon as anyone goes anywhere near one of yours then they're a talentless thug hell bent on ending the careers of your players, yet when one of yours actually goes in long after the ball's gone (Gallas on Mark Davies) then it was simply a "strong challenge".

Or "I did not see zee incident."

[JW]

What really feck people off with Wenger, JW, is his insistance that as soon as anyone goes anywhere near one of yours then they're a talentless thug hell bent on ending the careers of your players, yet when one of yours actually goes in long after the ball's gone (Gallas on Mark Davies) then it was simply a "strong challenge".
Oh, and his insistance that you wouldn't loan us Wilshire unless Coyle withdrew his "Assault" comments just add petrol to the flames. The guy might be a master tactician but as a human being he's an absolute wanker.

I can understand that tbf, although I do think it's mostly mind games (and works to an extent). The same sort of mind games that had me despising the nice person that is Mourinho and still has me fuming whenever I see Fergie's face appear on TV. It's all OK if it's your own team I guess

Can't argue about Gallas either, a shocking challenge.

[JW]

I do sense an incredible amount of collective naivety from Arsenal fans of late. Not least for the borderline arrogant statemant (by yourself, above, but by no means exclusive) that Arsenal are the only team that don't change their tactics from game to game. feel free to trawl the Trotters and see how many feel about Coyle's tactics. I'll add the same was said under Megson, and Sammy Lee, and Allardyce.....

I kind of meant in the way we very rarely deviate from the so called "beautiful football" plan to anything more physical rather than that everyone else changes their tactics completely each game and we do not - that is of course wrong, every team changes little things each game, with some teams making big changes more often than others, whether due to injuries or opposition etc although sometimes not to the extent fans want.

Are you getting the picture yet? Its a pschological trick by fans of all clubs to self-agrandise by labelling themselves the least/most/worst/best. It makes us feel important, special, different. In this case, its a psychological weapon being deployed by Arsene to deflect the criticism (and lets be honest, reality) that Arsenal have not been able to keep pace with United and Chelsea. You are not more fouled than anyone else, you like to perceive that you are. Thats your trick. Ours of late has been for fans to criticise each other as "the worst in the country". Neither has a grain of truth.

Definitely an interesting point and one that I mostly would agree with.

Although I will proudly add that we are keeping pace with Chelsea and United despite all expectations this season, and given my fears at the start of the campaign I'll happily take that

[Lord Kangana]

The only problem is that when everyone realisese this to be the case, football will become incredibly boring.

[Gooner Girl]

Agreeing 100% with jw here - I think he's giving reasoned, paitent, well thought arguments over all this unlike the majority of fellow gooners I have seen on here (and several Bolton fans...)

saw the tackle on motd - he did win the ball but by going in from behind at such great speed that he left bleeding stud marks down rosicky legs. Possibly wasn't a red but given he got away with several debatable yellows in the first half and it was reckless I don't think he can be too indignant that he went. Can understand why wolves were so utterly gutted to lose in the 94th minute - any team would be but if they hadn't been time wasting the entire way through then there wouldn't have been 5 min of injury time.

Jw Is right when they say that it's a weakness of ours - of wengers (as shown against barca) that we don't really change our style of play dependant on who we are playing - it's one of the few things that annoys me about aw (yes he does whine sometimes and that makes me cringe too but he is NOT the destroyer of football that some of you would have him to be - saying that is a joke.) anyway I very much doubt we will win anything again this season but we will have got flipping close so I'm more then happy to give wenger more time.

[FD]

I kind of meant in the way we very rarely deviate from the so called "beautiful football" plan to anything more physical rather than that everyone else changes their tactics completely each game and we do not - that is of course wrong, every team changes little things each game, with some teams making big changes more often than others, whether due to injuries or opposition etc although sometimes not to the extent fans want.

Very rarely maybe, but you fouled the shit out of Barcelona the other night including a few tackles that could have been reds, but I didn't hear Guardiola come out and accuse Arsenal of playing football the wrong way, playing "overly aggresive" or any such thing.

Almost every other club (Fergie may be the exception here) has a manager that can give or take, but Wenger, he's just a piece of shit and for everything good he does for the game he poisons it just as much, forgetting all the while the thugs that Arsenal were when they actually WON THINGS. He's breeding a young group of wonderful football players, but also ugly petulant little shits who do just as much cheating as the players Wenger protests about, only in a different manner. Whether it be waving imaginary cards or diving, it's all cheating at the end of the day.

Can we also not pretend that Arsenal don't commit "overly aggressive" (read nasty) fouls as well, because they do. Very rarely does a professional footballer go out to maim someone, but when it happens to a Wenger player, he does everything he can to vilify them, remember the death threats over Eduardo?

Honest question here, would you prefer to actually win trophies again or are you happy playing one touch beauty with an empty trophy cabinet?

[Gooner Girl]

I'd rather have trophies George graham style then fancy football but wenger has produced trophies with beautiful football in the past and am hoping he will again.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'd rather have trophies George graham style then fancy football

Interesting. So, if Big Sam rucked up down Ashburton Grove way would you still hold the same opinion?

[thebish]

I'd rather have trophies George graham style then fancy football

Interesting. So, if Big Sam rucked up down Ashburton Grove way would you still hold the same opinion?

to be fair - there was also the "win trophies" part...

[Bruce Rioja]

I'd rather have trophies George graham style then fancy football

Interesting. So, if Big Sam rucked up down Ashburton Grove way would you still hold the same opinion?

to be fair - there was also the "win trophies" part...

Nosey parker!

[Hoboh]

Barca were sharper and made sure at least 3 players were near an Arsenal shirt when in possession with no where to go and supported each other the same way, that was the difference

[as]

"He's breeding a young group of wonderful football players, but also ugly petulant little s***s who do just as much cheating as the players Wenger protests about, only in a different manner. Whether it be waving imaginary cards or diving, it's all cheating at the end of the day."

Spot on.

My dislike for Arsenal has now put Man Utd in the shade, and once upon a time I quite liked the gooners.

If a 'lesser' team plays them now, you get Whinger crying about every 'tackle' and his dirty little players (Fiberglass is the most annoying player in the Premier League) kicking out at every opportunity and then crying to the ref when they get it back.

Arsenal = c**ts

[boltonboris]

If you go through the back of somebody you're asking for trouble... Thems the rules nowadays (wrongly, we all know - But still the rules)

I've more beef with the 'authorities' than Wenger in this particular situation, although I can gaurantee that had it been roles reversed, there'd have only been a yellow at the very most

[CAPSLOCK]

But who has influenced the authorities?

It definitely isn't the manager of Bolton Wandewrers or Wolves or Blackburn

ps he still took the ball first