Tonight's Football

[bw@bw]

And another thing....

Let's not all fall for the PR crap. We "only" beat Slovakia - a rubbish team from somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Slovakia have had a really good record in recent years - especially at home where they were unbeaten until yesterday - and they have beaten the very top teams (Spain in a qualifier and Germany in a friendly).

They are the highest ranked team in the group apart from England

This was a game to NOT LOSE. Keep a clean sheet. Keep the crowd quiet.

So we set up with two defensive midfielders, and Rooney told to play according to the circumstances.

We succeeded in that. Apart from Danny Rose's error we never remotely looked like conceding.

Boring first half - but job done.

Second half, especially after Skrtl got himself sent off, we were on the front foot the whole time - and brought on players to take the game to them.

They parked the bus, we got lots of half chances - one of them went in.

Not a classic, but job done again. Move on.

Against the lower ranked teams, especially at home, I don't expect that we will start out so defensively.
he will want points and goal difference

I expect utter pragmatism from Sam until the group is won.
He will not want to go the way of McLaren and Taylor.

If we qualify with a couple of games to spare, he may experiment - and I expect that he will be bolder in the friendlies such as Spain in a few weeks time.

And - assuming that we do qualify - he will know by then exactly how he wants his team to play - and so will the players.

We know from years of experience, that with Sam every player knows their job.

[Hoboh]

The issue for me isn't picking Rooney. In a way it would be odd for Allardyce having built his career working with ageing stars not to.

My issue is he picked a side that had the same "structure-less" feel to it that Hodgson's did. Forget who is picked. The system was the same unstructured, Rooney all over the place, Kane isolated, wide men static stuff that was poor in the Euros.

I was hoping to see a front 3. With Rooney on the left, and someone on the right, supporting Kane, getting up around him tucking in when the ball was on the other flank. Then Dier and Drinkwater in midfield with Lallana in front. Lallana seems to be the only player we have with much movement off the ball. Get him central and let him play in the attacking midfield role. I don't rate him much, but for now, give it a go.

At least there would be some structure there and it is what I expected Sam to do. Instead it was very much along the lines of "send 11 out and tell them to go and play", a ploy that failed in the Euro's and didn't do much better last night.

I really hope he doesn't get swallowed up by it all, he needs to remember what got him here for me, because that is what England need.

I think you missed one very important comment made by Adam Lallana right after the game, explains a lot.

"The boss told us to keep a clean sheet" or words to that effect.

[TANGODANCER]

Best rebuttal to all the solutions offered is called "the opposition". Damn nuisance they are, upset all our plans and spoil things. Even teams like those Toblerone chaps or the deep sea fishermen etc won't lie down and behave. They all seem to want to stop us being world champions. If they weren't there we could play copy-book tactical football and win every game 24-0. (There would of course be a few errors like slipping on the grass and the wind moving the ball, or players having a headache, etc, but it would be so easy. Even Dougie Freedman or Owen Coyle could be England manager. Get rid of the opposition and we'd be kings of the world.....

[Hoboh]

And another thing....

Let's not all fall for the PR crap. We "only" beat Slovakia - a rubbish team from somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Slovakia have had a really good record in recent years - especially at home where they were unbeaten until yesterday - and they have beaten the very top teams (Spain in a qualifier and Germany in a friendly).

They are the highest ranked team in the group apart from England

This was a game to NOT LOSE. Keep a clean sheet. Keep the crowd quiet.

So we set up with two defensive midfielders, and Rooney told to play according to the circumstances.

We succeeded in that. Apart from Danny Rose's error we never remotely looked like conceding.

Boring first half - but job done.

Second half, especially after Skrtl got himself sent off, we were on the front foot the whole time - and brought on players to take the game to them.

They parked the bus, we got lots of half chances - one of them went in.

Not a classic, but job done again. Move on.

Against the lower ranked teams, especially at home, I don't expect that we will start out so defensively.
he will want points and goal difference

I expect utter pragmatism from Sam until the group is won.
He will not want to go the way of McLaren and Taylor.

If we qualify with a couple of games to spare, he may experiment - and I expect that he will be bolder in the friendlies such as Spain in a few weeks time.

And - assuming that we do qualify - he will know by then exactly how he wants his team to play - and so will the players.

We know from years of experience, that with Sam every player knows their job.

Very much the truth in a nut shell.

I'm loving reading the comments in the Guardian from the fools who reckon they are footie fans, anyone would think we lost and England have been playing people off the pitch for decades.

The caviar and champagne supporters are going to get a real shock with a pragmatic Sam

[Hoboh]

Thought the first half was poor, v much same old same old, but second hand there was a lot more urgency, with sects clear chances and we should have won the game earlier.

It's going to take time though. It's only a few months since the Iceland shambles, and there are what, ten players maximum not in that squad you child make a decent case should have been picked. Won't happen overnight, and a decent start IMO.

Media already after him following his admittedly rather odd Rooney comments. My disappointment so far is that he seems to be falling into the same trap as previous managers of fawning over players who have failed time and again for England.

It is his job to tell Rooney where to play. And if he doesn't follow instruction to crack skulls....

I was expecting a bit more no nonsense if I'm honest.

If you genuinely thought Roo was not following orders, then your sadly mistaken, I reckon Sam wants him to play like JJ

[BWFC_Insane]

Thought the first half was poor, v much same old same old, but second hand there was a lot more urgency, with sects clear chances and we should have won the game earlier.

It's going to take time though. It's only a few months since the Iceland shambles, and there are what, ten players maximum not in that squad you child make a decent case should have been picked. Won't happen overnight, and a decent start IMO.

Media already after him following his admittedly rather odd Rooney comments. My disappointment so far is that he seems to be falling into the same trap as previous managers of fawning over players who have failed time and again for England.

It is his job to tell Rooney where to play. And if he doesn't follow instruction to crack skulls....

I was expecting a bit more no nonsense if I'm honest.

If you genuinely thought Roo was not following orders, then your sadly mistaken, I reckon Sam wants him to play like JJ

Sam himself said "I can't tell someone like Wayne Rooney where to play".

That is the issue. If he'd said "he played there because I told him to" some might disagree with his tactics but fine.

But he's basically said Wayne can do what he likes, because I can't tell him otherwise. Which however it was meant, is the wrong message to give out under the current circumstances. Especially when everyone hoped Sam would give the England team more structure.

[TANGODANCER]

Sam himself said "I can't tell someone like Wayne Rooney where to play".

That is the issue. If he'd said "he played there because I told him to" some might disagree with his tactics but fine.
But he's basically said Wayne can do what he likes, because I can't tell him otherwise. Which however it was meant, is the wrong message to give out under the current circumstances. Especially when everyone hoped Sam would give the England team more structure.

Not so, in my view, nothing of the sort. That's just you interpretation mate. After Rooney playing all these years as a millionaire in Premier League and international football, perhaps Sam expects him to know his job on a football field? In effect, I reckon he was saying Rooney should know and adapt to requirements. If that isn't the case the F.A wouldn't have given Sam the job in the first place. He didn't say that if Rooney defies his orders he won't get dropped, but you can bet your life he will.

[BWFC_Insane]

Sam himself said "I can't tell someone like Wayne Rooney where to play".

That is the issue. If he'd said "he played there because I told him to" some might disagree with his tactics but fine.
But he's basically said Wayne can do what he likes, because I can't tell him otherwise. Which however it was meant, is the wrong message to give out under the current circumstances. Especially when everyone hoped Sam would give the England team more structure.

Not so, in my view, nothing of the sort. That's just you interpretation mate. After Rooney playing all these years as a millionaire in Premier League and international football, perhaps Sam expects him to know his job on a football field? In effect, I reckon he was saying Rooney should know and adapt to requirements. If that isn't the case the F.A wouldn't have given Sam the job in the first place. He didn't say that if Rooney defies his orders he won't get dropped, but you can bet your life he will.

Yeah but it is how most will interpret it. This job provides scrutiny, it was an odd thing to say.

I think it is fine to say the players should know where to play and what to do, the basic fact is that they clearly don't. It is why I thought Sam would put some structure into the side but we still had the ineffectual, roaming Rooney. And then that comment....

All I'm saying is Sam is going to be questioned about these things now. He got a good start yesterday by the skin of his teeth, but still a good start. But I don't think anyone can honestly say there was much sign of any improvement from the summer. And whilst improvement would only be small, it was disapointing to see the team again look so much like they were making it up as they went along.

[boltonboris]

I was impressed. The football was better than under Hodgson, we looked absolutely rock solid (1 brain fart from Rose aside) and thoropughly deserved the win.

Slovakia are a decent side and they have a very good home record the last few years and apart from the scoreline, made them look very ordinary.

Side note: Absolutely convinced that Srktel was intentionally trying to get himself sent-off. From the first challenge and then every 5-10 minutes after. couldn't believe what I was seeing. Wonder if the local gangsters had a bet on a red card before the hour mark. Incredible stuff

[bobo the clown]

Side note: Absolutely convinced that Srktel was intentionally trying to get himself sent-off. From the first challenge and then every 5-10 minutes after. couldn't believe what I was seeing. Wonder if the local gangsters had a bet on a red card before the hour mark. Incredible stuff

Agreed.

... & wondered if the ref. had bet on the opposite outcome as he seemed determined NOT to give him that 2nd yellow. In the end I'm not sure if he went off for a 2nd yellow or straight red as having committed (yet) another bookable foul he then decided to stamp on him for good measure.

He then had the fkg gall to look surprised.

[Bruce Rioja]

That is the issue. If he'd said "he played there because I told him to" some might disagree with his tactics but fine.

But he's basically said Wayne can do what he likes, because I can't tell him otherwise. Which however it was meant, is the wrong message to give out under the current circumstances. Especially when everyone hoped Sam would give the England team more structure.

Absolutely agree with this. Completely the wrong message. I also heard that he said "Rooney's played more international football than me, so I can't tell him where to play". For me this is the utter opposite of why Allardyce has been brought in. That's like me taking over the Wanderers having never played a professional game and telling the players to play however they feel due to their experience. I'm struggling to believe that a leader of men, and that is his chief attribute, has come out with something like that.

[plymouth wanderer]

That is the issue. If he'd said "he played there because I told him to" some might disagree with his tactics but fine.

But he's basically said Wayne can do what he likes, because I can't tell him otherwise. Which however it was meant, is the wrong message to give out under the current circumstances. Especially when everyone hoped Sam would give the England team more structure.

Absolutely agree with this. Completely the wrong message. I also heard that he said "Rooney's played more international football than me, so I can't tell him where to play". For me this is the utter opposite of why Allardyce has been brought in. That's like me taking over the Wanderers having never played a professional game and telling the players to play however they feel due to their experience. I'm struggling to believe that a leader of men, and that is his chief attribute, has come out with something like that.

Exactly. Not dissing the result ,not nessarily dissing the performance when you factor in the circumstances - it was a good result.

I had BSA as leader, no shit! Don't like it? there's the door! But then he goes and says something like that! I'm knocking Rooney because he should be the one receiving the ball on the edge of the box, not the one passing to that area! What's he gonna do? Pass to himself? He hits one or two cross field balls and some people have a mass wankathon!

IMO he's basically said that Rooney can do whatever he likes! I said it when ball bag face was in charge! This team won't be able to move forward untill that prickly is dropped or someone puts him in his place! One can only hope that fan pressure will makeep him retire!

[Prufrock]

That is the issue. If he'd said "he played there because I told him to" some might disagree with his tactics but fine.

But he's basically said Wayne can do what he likes, because I can't tell him otherwise. Which however it was meant, is the wrong message to give out under the current circumstances. Especially when everyone hoped Sam would give the England team more structure.

Absolutely agree with this. Completely the wrong message. I also heard that he said "Rooney's played more international football than me, so I can't tell him where to play". For me this is the utter opposite of why Allardyce has been brought in. That's like me taking over the Wanderers having never played a professional game and telling the players to play however they feel due to their experience. I'm struggling to believe that a leader of men, and that is his chief attribute, has come out with something like that.

Depends on you believing him! No way Rooney was playing there by chance. It was deliberate. If he'd been given a free role you'd expect Dier and Henderson to be central and symmetrical-ish. They weren't. Dier started deep and central, Henderson right and Rooney left. My thinking is he wanted to make sure we at least got a 0-0 and thinks saying this will mitigate and accusations of "negativity", our child be trying to keep his powder dry. Not sure it worked though as it just sounded weird.

It'll take time but there were flashes in the second half. The way we boxed them in turning the screw looked like a proper Allardyce side, we weren't creating clear chances but we were called in their box and every clearance dropped to an England player. It's something we didn't get near against Iceland.

[bobo the clown]

^^^ not "the second ball" ?!!!

[TANGODANCER]

See, I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anything but one major item: I just can't get my head around the fact that somebody like Sam Allardyce who's been chasing the England job for so long, would come out with a statement that one of his players could please himself where he played. It just doesn't play the right tune. I hope somebody asks him about it, I really do.

[BWFC_Insane]

Sam could of course be winding the media up to get the players onside and create a backs to the wall mentality. He likes doing that. But he has to be careful. This isn't a job where little throwaway comments are ignored.

[boltonboris]

He's said that because he ca;t be arsed answering the same questions over and over again.

First question was about Rooney. Not about the result, or the last minute winner. Pathetic stuff.

He's a clever lad Allardyce and he swatted them away with a grin on his face. Top stuff

[boltonboris]

Sam always has and always will give free license to game changers. It's what managers do. But as mentioned above, he was playing there on purpose and him popping up all over the show made us a better team.

[TANGODANCER]

He's said that because he ca;t be arsed answering the same questions over and over again.

First question was about Rooney. Not about the result, or the last minute winner. Pathetic stuff.

He's a clever lad Allardyce and he swatted them away with a grin on his face. Top stuff

I'd much rather believe that than Insaney's version. Allardyce is nobody's fool.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's said that because he ca;t be arsed answering the same questions over and over again.

First question was about Rooney. Not about the result, or the last minute winner. Pathetic stuff.

He's a clever lad Allardyce and he swatted them away with a grin on his face. Top stuff

I'd much rather believe that than Insaney's version. Allardyce is nobody's fool.

Woah there. I don't think Allardyce didn't give Rooney instruction. I just said that is how the media would view it, well the media that don't like him, and that it was a bit of an odd thing to say.