Tonight's Football
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- BWFC_Insane
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Re: Tonight's Football
This. The ridiculous thing is Everton fans have been clamouring for a manager who 'organises them and gets them to show fight'. So they are happy with Dyche. Hate Allardyce. But Big Sam clearly has a superior record...Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:59 amI think with Dyche they've thought - who, other than Sam Allardyce, can do the work of Sam Allardyce?
Their opinion of themselves is laughable.
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
Conte was taken ill with abdominal pain and will be out for at least a month after having his gall bladder removed. That man has had a rough year. Hopefully he recovers well.
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Re: Tonight's Football
The bloody gall of the man
"I've got the ball now. It's a bit worn, but I've got it"
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
That's an offal joke.
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
wrong thread
- Gary the Enfield
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Re: Tonight's Football
I think he meant it. Definitely intestinal.
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
A joke requiring guts.
- Gary the Enfield
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Re: Tonight's Football
Ye kidney mek it up!
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
Oh lord. How can you liver with yourself?
- Gary the Enfield
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Re: Tonight's Football
I've been around a lung time. It's hard to keep trachea
- Gary the Enfield
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Re: Tonight's Football
I'll stop now though.......sick off ex-spleen-ing myself.Gary the Enfield wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:14 amI've been around a lung time. It's hard to keep trachea
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
For the best. You're talking tripe.Gary the Enfield wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:16 amI'll stop now though.......sick off ex-spleen-ing myself.
- Bruce Rioja
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Re: Tonight's Football
Question - Do you know who Kevin Thelwell is, Inaneo?BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:35 amThis. The ridiculous thing is Everton fans have been clamouring for a manager who 'organises them and gets them to show fight'. So they are happy with Dyche. Hate Allardyce. But Big Sam clearly has a superior record...Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:59 amI think with Dyche they've thought - who, other than Sam Allardyce, can do the work of Sam Allardyce?
Their opinion of themselves is laughable.
Well, apparently, Kevin was appointed Everton's Director of Football in February 2022
So when Dyche pitched up with around 48 hours of the transfer window left, would it have been unreasonable of him to have expected to be presented with a list of pre-qualified transfer targets/availables/potentials drawn up by 'The Director of Football' and his technical team? I don't think so. In fact, I have that down as an absolute minimum requirement.
I think it was The Ghost (apologies if not) who said that perhaps the biggest threat to our club is us having Chris Markham pinched.
I think it's only a matter of time before a 'serious' club latches on to him/his work. However, I'm quite happy to see 'massive' clubs like Everton employ egregious living-stealers such as Kevin Thelwall who's clearly unable to meet the most very basic of his job's requirements. The worry is that one day someone as switched-on as Dyche will draw the attention of his employers towards Markham.
May the bridges I burn light your way
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
The thing with Dyche switching his attention to Markham is that, depending on the Everton structure, it simply won't work like that. Usually these days the manager (head coach, whatever the title) works FOR the DoF, Sporting Direct (believe that's the Everton one, from memory), Chief Sporting Officer or whatever the title is. At the very least they are kind of equals and have different remits. It's uncommon for a manager to be able to hire a DoF, usually the DoF can fire the coach. Each title usually confers some nuance, but the duties are so varied its hard to keep track even in the industry.Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:14 pmI think it was The Ghost (apologies if not) who said that perhaps the biggest threat to our club is us having Chris Markham pinched.
At our gaff you get the feeling Chris works for Ian, somewhat. Ian runs the footballing side now and takes good advice, but calls the shots on that part of the business. That's no longer the standard model in the upper leagues, so I wouldn't worry that Sean might personally poach someone.
I believe that Everton's version of Markham is Dan Purdy, who has worked his way up at Everton and been in that job since just before the pandemic took off. If Dyche were to want that position changing (not something he could order, unless they have changed the remit for him) then he'd probably look at Ian Butterworth, who was brought in at Burnley from QPR by Dyche.
We are probably quite well positioned to protect ourselves from the football department getting pinched, as they believe they will get to the Prem and they have been worked into the ownership of the club.
- BWFC_Insane
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Re: Tonight's Football
Quite. I suppose you could question whether the failure lies there or whether Everton's owners simply don't want to spend money, or indeed whether agents are steering their players well away from Goodison - understandably so.Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:14 pmQuestion - Do you know who Kevin Thelwell is, Inaneo?BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:35 amThis. The ridiculous thing is Everton fans have been clamouring for a manager who 'organises them and gets them to show fight'. So they are happy with Dyche. Hate Allardyce. But Big Sam clearly has a superior record...Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:59 amI think with Dyche they've thought - who, other than Sam Allardyce, can do the work of Sam Allardyce?
Their opinion of themselves is laughable.
Well, apparently, Kevin was appointed Everton's Director of Football in February 2022
So when Dyche pitched up with around 48 hours of the transfer window left, would it have been unreasonable of him to have expected to be presented with a list of pre-qualified transfer targets/availables/potentials drawn up by 'The Director of Football' and his technical team? I don't think so. In fact, I have that down as an absolute minimum requirement.
I think it was The Ghost (apologies if not) who said that perhaps the biggest threat to our club is us having Chris Markham pinched.
I think it's only a matter of time before a 'serious' club latches on to him/his work. However, I'm quite happy to see 'massive' clubs like Everton employ egregious living-stealers such as Kevin Thelwall who's clearly unable to meet the most very basic of his job's requirements. The worry is that one day someone as switched-on as Dyche will draw the attention of his employers towards Markham.
Its arguably a bit of all three.
Arsenal fans have been on at their DoF Edu until they started winning. I suspect that its a lot easier as DoF or similar role down here than the premiership. Yes some clubs have seemingly broken through like Brighton but they will eventually have their scraps picked and will struggle again. I think its why some of the great old guard of managers aren't in the game now because the routes they'd take to 'overperform' have dried up to a large extent. You can't trade in older players as easily now as they're all on massive contracts, younger players the same, foreign 'bargains' are few and far between and become ultra competitive.....
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
Brighton a good example of a club that had their guys poached. Dan Ashworth went to Toon and then Paul Winstanley was almost immediately taken to Chelsea following Potter's move. They're now onto Sam Jewell.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:45 amYes some clubs have seemingly broken through like Brighton but they will eventually have their scraps picked and will struggle again.
Brighton have a system by which their staff have built-in successors who shadow their work, because they assume they're so good at this that people will steal them. Jewell and Winstanley were both internal appointments to the senior job.
- Worthy4England
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Re: Tonight's Football
I have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.
You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...
You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...
- GhostoftheBok
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Re: Tonight's Football
I don't think I agree, as far as I followed that; but I'd also not be arsed arguing the point. Our model is working, so we're fine. Let's hope we continue winning football matches because of it.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:31 amI have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.
You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...
- Worthy4England
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Re: Tonight's Football
I'll try a different way. How many times do you hear the phrase "Well we're blaming <manager> but I don't think he had much say in <player x> coming in. Not his sort of player" You break the chain between the person recruiting and the person tasked with putting points on the board. Sometimes it feels that they're not joined at the hip. Not so in our case, currently. But when that occurs it's feels like it's usually the Manager/Coach carrying the can..GhostoftheBok wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:41 amI don't think I agree, as far as I followed that; but I'd also not be arsed arguing the point. Our model is working, so we're fine. Let's hope we continue winning football matches because of it.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:31 amI have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.
You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...
- BWFC_Insane
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Re: Tonight's Football
Yeah spot on for me. A manager has to make the decisions. A Markham there with a team to provide intelligence and data is critical.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:31 amI have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.
You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...
But the art of management is assembling a team and getting the best out of it. If half that is done outside your control then I think in many cases it’s doomed to failure.
And frankly in no business would someone be responsible for something but have someone else deciding on what tools they get to do that (yes it happens but usually as a result of constraints rather than as a good design).
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