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Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:04 pm
by Prufrock
Pickford's been good since Xmas tbf.
Agreed on the rest but picking purely on form is daft anyway to me. It's a factor but I'd rather have e.g. Jordan Henderson finding his way back than an in form Mark Noble.
Especially with 26 and replacements allowed.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:11 pm
by GhostoftheBok
The 26 is the thing. I don't think Hendo gets in if it's a 24, but Southgate has been given the chance to take a leader and he's gone for it.
None of us are in the dressingroom, so we can't say whether that's wise or not. Some lads really are just important to have around the place and we've seen here this season what a massive difference a good dressingroom makes.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:17 pm
by BWFC_Insane
Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:04 pm
Pickford's been good since Xmas tbf.
Agreed on the rest but picking purely on form is daft anyway to me. It's a factor but I'd rather have e.g. Jordan Henderson finding his way back than an in form Mark Noble.
Especially with 26 and replacements allowed.
I really don't think Henderson is that good that we take him half fit and not having played in months...
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:05 pm
by Prufrock
I'm not sure I agree. Took a long time to win me around but he was absolutely top drawer for Liverpool in the two years before this.
Rice I think is genuinely top class, beyond him even with 26 and 4 right backs you've got a 17 year old and the bang average Kalvin Phillips. There's not a lot of depth there I'm not sure who I'd be taking over Henderson. Harry Winks? Plus he's the captain of an all conquering team. I'd have his mentality around.
I guess for all the talk on the balance of the squad, with so many spots available I can't think of anyone who hasn't gone who it's a travesty. Watkins and Bamford are the nearest I get to but Kane starts no matter what and DCL is obviously his next best, and arguably Rashford the next.
The other thing I hadn't appreciated was you can call up replacements for injuries or Covid which you can't usually (though you can't then call up someone who has already been sent home, once you're out you're out). So if Kane rolls his ankle out for the tournament you could always call up Watkins.
So the only question mark for me then is I'd have liked another centre back (and think White and Godfrey are better than Mings anyway). Until Maguire is fit we've only got 3 who could play in a 4 (and one of them, Coady, doesn't usually).
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:11 pm
by BWFC_Insane
Prufrock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:05 pm
I'm not sure I agree. Took a long time to win me around but he was absolutely top drawer for Liverpool in the two years before this.
Rice I think is genuinely top class, beyond him even with 26 and 4 right backs you've got a 17 year old and the bang average Kalvin Phillips. There's not a lot of depth there I'm not sure who I'd be taking over Henderson. Harry Winks? Plus he's the captain of an all conquering team. I'd have his mentality around.
I guess for all the talk on the balance of the squad, with so many spots available I can't think of anyone who hasn't gone who it's a travesty. Watkins and Bamford are the nearest I get to but Kane starts no matter what and DCL is obviously his next best, and arguably Rashford the next.
The other thing I hadn't appreciated was you can call up replacements for injuries or Covid which you can't usually (though you can't then call up someone who has already been sent home, once you're out you're out). So if Kane rolls his ankle out for the tournament you could always call up Watkins.
So the only question mark for me then is I'd have liked another centre back (and think White and Godfrey are better than Mings anyway). Until Maguire is fit we've only got 3 who could play in a 4 (and one of them, Coady, doesn't usually).
The only conclusion I can come to is we've got an average squad and really aren't very good.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:19 pm
by The_Gun
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:11 pm
The only conclusion I can come to is we've got an average squad and really aren't very good.
Colour me shocked that you are the one person in the country who holds this opinion.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:21 pm
by Prufrock
Don't agree either. We lack depth in certain areas but so does everyone except France. Our best team (I'd pick the below) is as good as anyone except France. International football is baaad rn.
--------------Pickford-----------------
TAA - Stones - Maguire - Chilwell
----------Mount - Rice-------------
Sancho - - Grealish - - - Foden
------------------Kane--------------
Can see an argument for Rashford for Sancho. And Henderson for Grealish against better teams. But that's a good side at international level. He'll go:
Pickford; Walker, Stones, Maguire; Trippier, Henderson, Rice, Chilwell, Rashford, Kane, Foden.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:23 pm
by BWFC_Insane
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:11 pm
The only conclusion I can come to is we've got an average squad and really aren't very good.
Colour me shocked that you are the one person in the country who holds this opinion.
On this I really think there are millions of people like me tens of millions who don't think we're very good. Be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect we'll go out to an average side in the quarters or semis at best.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:28 pm
by The_Gun
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:23 pm
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:11 pm
The only conclusion I can come to is we've got an average squad and really aren't very good.
Colour me shocked that you are the one person in the country who holds this opinion.
On this I really think there are millions of people like me tens of millions who don't think we're very good. Be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect we'll go out to an average side in the quarters or semis at best.
We may well end up being eliminated by a not great side, but it won't be because we have an average squad. As Pru says, I think only France could be argued to have a superior squad in the competition.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:35 pm
by BWFC_Insane
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:28 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:23 pm
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:11 pm
The only conclusion I can come to is we've got an average squad and really aren't very good.
Colour me shocked that you are the one person in the country who holds this opinion.
On this I really think there are millions of people like me tens of millions who don't think we're very good. Be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect we'll go out to an average side in the quarters or semis at best.
We may well end up being eliminated by a not great side, but it won't be because we have an average squad. As Pru says, I think only France could be argued to have a superior squad in the competition.
See I think this is classic over familiarity of English players and overrating them. I think our attacking 3 or 4 could be very good. It will depend on the good Kane turning up and being bang on it. And Southgate picking Foden and building the team round him.
But the rest for me is problematic. And looking through squads - I highly question our squad being 'the best behind France'. We'll see in fullness of time, but I've heard it all before. Every generation there are countless claims that England have a great squad - usually with some merit in terms of performance. Yet we get to the tournament and find out that many of these players rely on the better players from other nations in their club squads to really perform. I strongly suspect that's because many players are overrated because of overexposure.
Last tournament we just had to hit Luka Modric to see true international quality undo us. Who is going to control games for us consistently the way Modric does? Are Stones and Maguire up there? Not a chance. Rice, Mount - I honestly think that's in for a rude awakening later in the tournament.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:30 pm
by TANGODANCER
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:35 pm
Last tournament we just had to hit Luka Modric to see true international quality undo us. Who is going to control games for us consistently the way Modric does? Are Stones and Maguire up there? Not a chance. Rice, Mount - I honestly think that's in for a rude awakening later in the tournament.
Ever the pessimist. We're a better side than we've been for some while. I reckon we'll do well.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:31 pm
by Worthy4England
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:28 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:23 pm
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:11 pm
The only conclusion I can come to is we've got an average squad and really aren't very good.
Colour me shocked that you are the one person in the country who holds this opinion.
On this I really think there are millions of people like me tens of millions who don't think we're very good. Be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect we'll go out to an average side in the quarters or semis at best.
We may well end up being eliminated by a not great side, but it won't be because we have an average squad. As Pru says, I think only France could be argued to have a superior squad in the competition.
Belgium? History suggests that we may well tumble vs Malta in the first round, but agree, it's not a shoddy squad. Going out in the semis wouldn't necessarily be a poor return as there's 2 European sides ranked high than 4th....
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:57 pm
by The_Gun
Worthy4England wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:31 pm
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:28 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:23 pm
The_Gun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:11 pm
The only conclusion I can come to is we've got an average squad and really aren't very good.
Colour me shocked that you are the one person in the country who holds this opinion.
On this I really think there are millions of people like me tens of millions who don't think we're very good. Be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect we'll go out to an average side in the quarters or semis at best.
We may well end up being eliminated by a not great side, but it won't be because we have an average squad. As Pru says, I think only France could be argued to have a superior squad in the competition.
Belgium? History suggests that we may well tumble vs Malta in the first round, but agree, it's not a shoddy squad. Going out in the semis wouldn't necessarily be a poor return as there's 2 European sides ranked high than 4th....
Belgium are probably past their best now - they have KDB and Lukaku, but Hazard has been poor/injured of late and the bulk of their squad is made up of fairly run of the mill PL/ex-PL players (Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Boyata, Dendoncker, Castagne, Chadli, Praet, Benteke, Batshuayi).
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:47 pm
by Prufrock
Really good going forward and world class keeper but ropey as f*ck in defence, and no left back. Denayer - bobbins, Verthongen - waaay over the hill and Alderweireld who is just about clinging on.
LWB is a winger who can't get into the Dortmund team ahead of Sancho who likely won't start for us.
I think people have overcorrected under hyping England players. Stones and Maguire aren't top top class but they both got to European finals this year.
France are world class all over the pitch and no real weakness (other than being French. Welcome back, Karim).
After that I'd have us, Belgium and Portugal as the next best. Maybe Italy who I haven't seen much of but seem to be building nicely. Spain and Germany are bobbins and Holland a bang average side with a couple of exceptional players.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:05 pm
by Worthy4England
Well, yes to the above, but it all feels like close calls for maybe the top 6/7 European sides. I wouldn't rule Germany out, just because...and with 6/7 sides all with players who can turn a match, just hope it's one of ours. The back 4 still has a fcuk-up in it, I struggle to rate Rice and if we're not in 5-0 territory, those fcuk-ups count...
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:23 pm
by TANGODANCER
Winning games 5 or 6 nil proves nothing at all at international level (except when it's us whacking Germany 5-0, of course) , so a solid 1-or 2 victory is much nearer the mark in these games. Italy and Spain seem off the boil a little right now, but Belgium are a bit "sleeping tiger" till it matters. That said, past history is less relevant than it was due to the all-change" of time and so many teams have improved levels of performance at younger levels that anything can happen. I'm not saying Vatican City will win the World Cup or anything drastic, but hey....Quien sabe
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:03 pm
by Harry Genshaw
Fair play to Lingaard playing tonight. I'd have fecked it off after missing out on the finals squad
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:30 pm
by Burnden Paddock
Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:03 pm
Fair play to Lingaard playing tonight. I'd have fecked it off after missing out on the finals squad
Agreed. Just switched it on and heard his name. Thought to myself wtf. Never his biggest fan as a red shite, or a spammer for that matter. Not sure what the lad has to do,based on current form to get in the squad.
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:53 pm
by Gooner Girl
No interest whatsoever in England but pleased to see our Arsenal boy bag himself a goal tonight!
Re: Your England XI
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:52 am
by Bruce Rioja
Gooner Girl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:53 pm
No interest whatsoever in England but pleased to see our Arsenal boy bag himself a goal tonight!
I'd no idea who he is or who he plays for, but glad to see England won last night ahead of a tournament, and well done to your boy.
