Pies in administration

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:11 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:50 pm
Something incredibly fishy about all this. Company that buys the club from Whelan, sells to someone else but with the same majority shareholder. In the middle of the pandemic. New chap emerges and puts them into administration. BBC cites the pandemic as the cause. Hmmm

The EFLs governance, fit and proper stuff appears to have been found wanting again.

A club on gates of 9000, at best, has run up a further £20m+ in debt

Football finance is just mental.
Are they in debt? I didn't think they had much debt - which is why the situation is very odd. I mean I realise they are losing 8M a year but that the takeover was meant to plug that gap - but didn't think they were carrying much historic debt? If they are then I fear they may be screwed. Do I fear it? Hmmmm.... I don't want them to go bust - but I'd like their fans who gloated to experience the awful pain we've had to over the past few years just to make them appreciate their club and others again.

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:20 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:11 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:50 pm
Something incredibly fishy about all this. Company that buys the club from Whelan, sells to someone else but with the same majority shareholder. In the middle of the pandemic. New chap emerges and puts them into administration. BBC cites the pandemic as the cause. Hmmm

The EFLs governance, fit and proper stuff appears to have been found wanting again.

A club on gates of 9000, at best, has run up a further £20m+ in debt

Football finance is just mental.
Are they in debt? I didn't think they had much debt - which is why the situation is very odd. I mean I realise they are losing 8M a year but that the takeover was meant to plug that gap - but didn't think they were carrying much historic debt? If they are then I fear they may be screwed. Do I fear it? Hmmmm.... I don't want them to go bust - but I'd like their fans who gloated to experience the awful pain we've had to over the past few years just to make them appreciate their club and others again.
As I read it, the people who bought it from Whelan for £22 million sold it to these 'new' people for just over £17 million and the new owners took on a debt of around £25 million too.

Whelan, before he flogged it, said they were spending £10m a year just to keep the lights on! I wasn't surprised to see the wage bill at the club had increased umpteen percent too over this period.

I couldnt get my head around our finances and all the various holding companies and that's when I had a vested interest so admittedly my look at Wigan's is a layman's fag packet attempt. Apologies if I'm way off the mark.

Your last paragraph sums up my feelings perfectly by the way!
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:22 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:11 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:50 pm
Something incredibly fishy about all this. Company that buys the club from Whelan, sells to someone else but with the same majority shareholder. In the middle of the pandemic. New chap emerges and puts them into administration. BBC cites the pandemic as the cause. Hmmm

The EFLs governance, fit and proper stuff appears to have been found wanting again.

A club on gates of 9000, at best, has run up a further £20m+ in debt

Football finance is just mental.
Are they in debt? I didn't think they had much debt - which is why the situation is very odd. I mean I realise they are losing 8M a year but that the takeover was meant to plug that gap - but didn't think they were carrying much historic debt? If they are then I fear they may be screwed. Do I fear it? Hmmmm.... I don't want them to go bust - but I'd like their fans who gloated to experience the awful pain we've had to over the past few years just to make them appreciate their club and others again.
I think they're up a bigger tree than we were....

The SPA talks about a Loan Agreement between the Club and IEC (the owner at the time) of £28.77m

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:03 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:22 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:11 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:50 pm
Something incredibly fishy about all this. Company that buys the club from Whelan, sells to someone else but with the same majority shareholder. In the middle of the pandemic. New chap emerges and puts them into administration. BBC cites the pandemic as the cause. Hmmm

The EFLs governance, fit and proper stuff appears to have been found wanting again.

A club on gates of 9000, at best, has run up a further £20m+ in debt

Football finance is just mental.
Are they in debt? I didn't think they had much debt - which is why the situation is very odd. I mean I realise they are losing 8M a year but that the takeover was meant to plug that gap - but didn't think they were carrying much historic debt? If they are then I fear they may be screwed. Do I fear it? Hmmmm.... I don't want them to go bust - but I'd like their fans who gloated to experience the awful pain we've had to over the past few years just to make them appreciate their club and others again.
I think they're up a bigger tree than we were....

The SPA talks about a Loan Agreement between the Club and IEC (the owner at the time) of £28.77m
Christ. I guess the legality of that loan may be questioned by administrators....

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am

Their admins have supposedly just told BBC Radio Manchester that Wigan's debt is a bit 'over 6M'. So not sure how that stands against the £20M loan.

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:27 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am
Their admins have supposedly just told BBC Radio Manchester that Wigan's debt is a bit 'over 6M'. So not sure how that stands against the £20M loan.
Me neither - I understood the £6m was what they needed to get them to the end of the season...rather than the total debt position.

The principal terms of the Loan Agreement
The principal terms of the Loan Agreement are set out as below:
Parties : (i) the Company, as the lender
(ii) the Club, as the borrower
Loan facility : An aggregate principal amount of GBP28.77 million (equivalent to approximately HK$277.63 million)
Repayment date : The date falling 12 months after the date of the Loan Agreement
The Company shall be entitled to demand repayment of the loan together with all accrued interest and all other monies then outstanding in connection with the Loan Agreement at any time before the repayment date described above by giving not less than 21 days’ prior notice in writing to the Club.
Interest : 8% per annum
Interest period : 6 months

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 am

Basically the SPA says - "we thought our investment of £20+m would take us to the Premier League to get a return of around £110m" whereas the Club have run it poorly and are sitting in 20th place (at the time of writing the SPA) and managed to still be making a loss of £7m after our investment loans. A position not commensurate with our investment...

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:44 am

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... nship-club

According to this admins want proof of £10M from any buyer...sound familiar?

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Athertonian » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:22 pm

Wigan fans can protest as much as they like because this EFL are ruthless.
I know several Wigan fans who have not only given Bolton fans and myself some stick when we went into admin but, were bloody abusive and showed genuine hate. What goes around comes around.
I was talking to a fan this morning who stopped me in Atherton, we was asking all sorts of questions and trying to answer them himself. He's a self centred bastard who constantly gloated when Bolton almost went bang. He believes the EFL will alter their stance because Wigan have done this during the covid lockdown. How wrong will you be .

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Athertonian » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:23 pm

Athertonian wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:22 pm
Wigan fans can protest as much as they like because this EFL are ruthless.
I know several Wigan fans who have not only given Bolton fans and myself some stick when we went into admin but, were bloody abusive and showed genuine hate. What goes around comes around.
I was talking to a fan this morning who stopped me in Atherton, we was asking all sorts of questions and trying to answer them himself. He's a self centred bastard who constantly gloated when Bolton almost went bang. He believes the EFL will alter their stance because Wigan have done this during the covid lockdown. How wrong will you be .

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:46 am

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/footba ... st-2902535

I think the story is the new ‘owner’ is involved with a Far East betting syndicate and needs them to get relegate, so their upturn in form has meant they have taken matters into their own hands??

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Harry Genshaw » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:41 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:46 am
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/footba ... st-2902535

I think the story is the new ‘owner’ is involved with a Far East betting syndicate and needs them to get relegate, so their upturn in form has meant they have taken matters into their own hands??
It would have to be a hell of a bet to recover the £41 million the bloke in both syndicates has shelled out!

It amazes me that the Beeb and others are still reporting this as Wigan being the first football victims of the pandemic. I've read supporters pleas that they shouldnt be deducted points as the virus could not be foreseen. Kind of ignoring the fact that the takeover took place in the height of the pandemic!
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:53 am

It’s just laziness isn’t it. Most people still think old Dave ‘broke my leg’ Whelan still owns it.
There is a times piece on that Rick Parry Story as well. Behind a paywall, obvs. I think there is a lot more to come on this one.

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:16 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:41 am
officer_dibble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:46 am
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/footba ... st-2902535

I think the story is the new ‘owner’ is involved with a Far East betting syndicate and needs them to get relegate, so their upturn in form has meant they have taken matters into their own hands??
It would have to be a hell of a bet to recover the £41 million the bloke in both syndicates has shelled out!

It amazes me that the Beeb and others are still reporting this as Wigan being the first football victims of the pandemic. I've read supporters pleas that they shouldnt be deducted points as the virus could not be foreseen. Kind of ignoring the fact that the takeover took place in the height of the pandemic!
I don't buy this betting thing - its just too 'obvious'. However, isn't the point that their owners never actually put cash into the club since the 'takeover' in June...I realise they did when buying from Whelan...but still....

Seems like they were just finding a way to cut their losses.

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:38 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:46 am
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/footba ... st-2902535

I think the story is the new ‘owner’ is involved with a Far East betting syndicate and needs them to get relegate, so their upturn in form has meant they have taken matters into their own hands??
I'm not even sure it's a story yet. What Parry said was there were "rumours" - which there were - all over t'interweb when Admin was announced - That's a long way short of "something that's known" or "something there's hard evidence about". Much more likely for me is the following scenario.

Season finishes on time and additional running cost funding is provided by previous owner (as they'd been pumping in running costs anyhow.) When season got extended, new owner wouldn't have been expecting to pump any additional running costs in until at least Sept/Oct (as the early months probably covered by payments from TV/League etc.) - so there will probably have been a oh shit moment from new owner when asked to stump-up "running costs" for June...

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:36 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:27 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am
Their admins have supposedly just told BBC Radio Manchester that Wigan's debt is a bit 'over 6M'. So not sure how that stands against the £20M loan.
Me neither - I understood the £6m was what they needed to get them to the end of the season...rather than the total debt position.

The principal terms of the Loan Agreement
The principal terms of the Loan Agreement are set out as below:
Parties : (i) the Company, as the lender
(ii) the Club, as the borrower
Loan facility : An aggregate principal amount of GBP28.77 million (equivalent to approximately HK$277.63 million)
Repayment date : The date falling 12 months after the date of the Loan Agreement
The Company shall be entitled to demand repayment of the loan together with all accrued interest and all other monies then outstanding in connection with the Loan Agreement at any time before the repayment date described above by giving not less than 21 days’ prior notice in writing to the Club.
Interest : 8% per annum
Interest period : 6 months
Apparently the loan was paid off by Next Leader (new owners) as part of the purchase, which means that the buyer effectively paid £41m for the Club, prior to putting it into Admin 4 weeks later...£24m for the loan and £17m for the shares

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:12 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:36 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:27 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am
Their admins have supposedly just told BBC Radio Manchester that Wigan's debt is a bit 'over 6M'. So not sure how that stands against the £20M loan.
Me neither - I understood the £6m was what they needed to get them to the end of the season...rather than the total debt position.

The principal terms of the Loan Agreement
The principal terms of the Loan Agreement are set out as below:
Parties : (i) the Company, as the lender
(ii) the Club, as the borrower
Loan facility : An aggregate principal amount of GBP28.77 million (equivalent to approximately HK$277.63 million)
Repayment date : The date falling 12 months after the date of the Loan Agreement
The Company shall be entitled to demand repayment of the loan together with all accrued interest and all other monies then outstanding in connection with the Loan Agreement at any time before the repayment date described above by giving not less than 21 days’ prior notice in writing to the Club.
Interest : 8% per annum
Interest period : 6 months
Apparently the loan was paid off by Next Leader (new owners) as part of the purchase, which means that the buyer effectively paid £41m for the Club, prior to putting it into Admin 4 weeks later...£24m for the loan and £17m for the shares
Do you have any speculation as to what the game might be? Betting stuff seems unlikely...must be a scam in this somewhere....

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:53 pm

I see that the £6m talked about earlier is, according to the Beeb, this months wages which haven't been paid plus costs to the seasons end.

Their supporters group bravely suggesting that the points deduction shouldn't be enforced in these circumstances. Hmmm
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:46 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:12 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:36 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:27 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am
Their admins have supposedly just told BBC Radio Manchester that Wigan's debt is a bit 'over 6M'. So not sure how that stands against the £20M loan.
Me neither - I understood the £6m was what they needed to get them to the end of the season...rather than the total debt position.

The principal terms of the Loan Agreement
The principal terms of the Loan Agreement are set out as below:
Parties : (i) the Company, as the lender
(ii) the Club, as the borrower
Loan facility : An aggregate principal amount of GBP28.77 million (equivalent to approximately HK$277.63 million)
Repayment date : The date falling 12 months after the date of the Loan Agreement
The Company shall be entitled to demand repayment of the loan together with all accrued interest and all other monies then outstanding in connection with the Loan Agreement at any time before the repayment date described above by giving not less than 21 days’ prior notice in writing to the Club.
Interest : 8% per annum
Interest period : 6 months
Apparently the loan was paid off by Next Leader (new owners) as part of the purchase, which means that the buyer effectively paid £41m for the Club, prior to putting it into Admin 4 weeks later...£24m for the loan and £17m for the shares
Do you have any speculation as to what the game might be? Betting stuff seems unlikely...must be a scam in this somewhere....
I'd be very surprised if this wasn't all down to hiding money from the Chinese authorities...

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Re: Pies in administration

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:21 pm

There is also the possibility that the outgoing owner, found the Chinese/Hong Konger equivalent of Dominic Chappell...There's some notion doing the rounds that he thought the loan would still exist on the Club.

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