The Big Picture

There ARE other teams(we'd have no-one to play otherwise) and here's where all-comers can discuss the wider world of football......

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23806
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

The Big Picture

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:44 pm

Well there's a lark - DMB's and Bin-Dippers in perfect harmony, producing a plan for the future. It does look to a) give a support package to the EFL of £250m and set future money flow-down at 25% of Revenue (rather than the current 4%), but I can't help thinking this is all a scam designed to put the future control of football into a smaller set of hands who will then wipe up at the expense of others over time, after removing the voting rights from the majority - even if it does recognise Newcastle aren't important.

It's already garnered support from EFL Chair, Rick Parry and a couple of Chairmen - Travis at Orient and everybody's favourite Dale Vince at FGR.

What do folk think? Or maybe just can't be arsed :-)

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8956
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: The Big Picture

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:19 pm

We do feel very, very detached from the top flight now. The last 10 years have certainly dampened my enthusiasm. I just want to watch Bolton compete at football - we haven’t competed for a long time. If this is the start of a big feck off european super league so be it...and yes I get that there is a financial black hole at the end of this so it’s very easy to hypothesize (Fantasize?) about a domestic game where more than4 teams can win the league/cup.

I think it’s the start of a conversation and I’m happy with our boards statement - not agreeing to it but welcoming the discussion.

Bin the charity shield ✔️
League cup - no teams in Europe ✔️
Better distribution of tv money ✔️

Not sure about the inevitable gives the other way - would almost certainly make the PL a closed shop to us. Look at Burnley - we couldn’t have been relegated at a worse time.

Bruce Rioja
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36115
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Re: The Big Picture

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:19 pm

I'm particularly pleased that someone's tabled an idea that I've been a fan of for a long time - the doing away with the parachute payment. It completely upsets the competitive balance within Div 2.

And as regards player wages then it's quite simple - Dear Footballer, if we're in the top division then your wages will be this, and if we move down a division then the effect on our income will be reflected accordingly in your pay as a direct consequence.

I'm sick to fecking death of football operating on the economics of La-La Land.
May the bridges I burn light your way

User avatar
Abdoulaye's Twin
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8548
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:27 pm
Location: Skye high

Re: The Big Picture

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:47 pm

Sooner the big 4/6 or whatever the feck off to their European Soupa League the better. Let the players there earn the silly money and have something closer to reality in what is left of in the UK teams/leagues.

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8956
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: The Big Picture

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:55 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:19 pm
I'm particularly pleased that someone's tabled an idea that I've been a fan of for a long time - the doing away with the parachute payment. It completely upsets the competitive balance within Div 2.

And as regards player wages then it's quite simple - Dear Footballer, if we're in the top division then your wages will be this, and if we move down a division then the effect on our income will be reflected accordingly in your pay as a direct consequence.

I'm sick to fecking death of football operating on the economics of La-La Land.
A-feck* men

Conversation has to be had - who turns up to a meeting and agrees with everything proposed? They have to hold the meeting which I am all for. Too many people reading the headlines and giving it the not over my dead body treatment.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20234
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: The Big Picture

Post by Prufrock » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:58 pm

Idk, I think it's shitty. They've got the rest of the clubs in their palm and they're taking advantage of it. This dicking around with the voting structure is where it's at. All the clubs coming out in favour of it need the cash to keep going. No point going bust for principle, they know they have to. It's fecked up though.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23806
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: The Big Picture

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:04 am

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:58 pm
Idk, I think it's shitty. They've got the rest of the clubs in their palm and they're taking advantage of it. This dicking around with the voting structure is where it's at. All the clubs coming out in favour of it need the cash to keep going. No point going bust for principle, they know they have to. It's fecked up though.
Aye - I'm fairly sure if I was in charge of Bolton's finances, I'd be pretty happy with the Owt's better than Nowt offer of a lifeline. Even the most optimistic view of the world wouldn't get us back in the Premier league in under 3 years and the reality is going to be a lot longer unless Uncle Sugar Daddy comes along. So the impact on us, if there were to be one, wouldn't happen for a stone age.

But - and here's the nub. With a smaller cartel (and it is a cartel) they can change the future operating model, much easier at the behest of fewer participants and there's diddly squat we can do about it. They could certainly negotiate their own TV deals (which has been on their agenda for a while) and say that's not "League Money" that's ours, minimising the central pot and the amount that flows down.

It feels like a wolf in sheep's clothing to me.

Whilst the parachute payments have always been contentious and created inequality, they were there to recognise that for a promoted team from Championship to Premiership, it would be almost impossible to attract any calibre of Premiership player on terms that automatically cut the salary should they go straight back from whence they came. So it was designed to allow for longer than effectively one-year contracts. I think this could probably be solved over time with some sort of transition arrangement, that embedded that as the norm, but I'd be concerned as to whether a promoted team could really attract the calibre of player necessary to compete in the Prem. Without parachute payments, we'd likely be bust by now (but maybe we'd have adopted a different recruitment regime), and of course there would be less teams able to compete in the Prem as they cut the number by 2. Again to suit the teams that are generally in Europe.

I'm not seeing a big kickback against Charity Shield and ELF cup going. Personally, I'd be a bit disappointed in the Charity Shield going albeit wouldn't kick up too much of a fuss. It's one game and in the event (god forbid) of a Championship Club winning the FA Cup or the odd outlier like a Wigan, Pompey etc. It represents another big pay day gone, just so the Big Six (or at least 2 of them) could go on pre-season money spinners rather than risk a pay day based on them winning something.

I can also recall when the Big Six was only a Big Four. They've added some make-weights just to get enough on the same side, to swing a vote.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26509
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: The Big Picture

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:31 am

Its the death of football. Cut and dried and simple as that. Handing the game to the self appointed 'top 6' (you might argue this already happened but this would formalise it) is just something that should not ever, under any circumstances be countenanced.

The realities of where clubs are and the money needed to survive is clouding the view on what this is.

In simple terms, the money should be distributed down. The premiership is already too powerful as it is and the need for a proper regulator is screaming at us full volume.

All clubs in the league should be required to submit adequate business plans on an annual basis to be scrutinized by an independent regulator before they receive their TV allocation. The permitted losses should be defined and applied right up the structure. The wage caps should be defined and applied right up the structure - this should be a low flat cap.

The domestic game and its integrity is paramount. And whilst such action will make the top end of the English game worse for a while, it will over time rebalance the whole league system and rejuvenate English football and restore the connections to local communities. The importance of this has IMHO only really been shown in the last 6 months and everything should be done to achieve this.

I think such action potentially results in losing the 'top 6' but it isn't certain and I'd say if they don't really care about the English football pyramid then why should the pyramid care about them?

There are no easy choices or answers - but selling out to the devil a second time to save our souls - how does that make any sense? What happens in 10 years time when another major crisis hits?

Protect clubs, protect the communities and make English football the proper competitive sport it once was. Covid has shown why this matters - and why this project big billy bollocks is a huge huge mistake.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23806
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: The Big Picture

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:46 pm

Bit bizarre for Prem Clubs to vote 20-0 against it. Even bin dippers and DMB's must've voted against their own homework. Was this all about a bit of bully? (Here's what you could've won)? Good to see £50m heading in a L1 and L2 direction though. Thank's for sharing.

Harry Genshaw
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7382
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Half dead in Panama

Re: The Big Picture

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:35 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:19 pm
Look at Burnley - we couldn’t have been relegated at a worse time.
This.

We had the millions and squandered every penny of it. Gartside then helped our reputation in the game by proposing an idea more ludicrous and more unfair than this one.

The games fecked and so are we!
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: The Big Picture

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:55 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:31 am
Protect clubs, protect the communities and make English football the proper competitive sport it once was. Covid has shown why this matters - and why this project big billy bollocks is a huge huge mistake.
Yup. The fact of the matter is that football contains money laundering, dodgy accounting, bribes and kickbacks. It's the least transparent major business in the country and attracts exactly the sort of money you'd expect. Numerous football agents have links to "legitimate businessmen" in this country and abroad.

The game isn't going to vote to clean itself up, because it is dirty through and through. The government has to impose order, but it has been avoided in the past because politicians in Westminster are worried about upsetting "working class voters." Maybe now is the time it can happen, because the fragility of the system is obvious now. Corruption is normal in the game, it's probably actually fair to say that the game runs on corruption. It'll take major political action to fix it.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23806
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: The Big Picture

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:50 pm

Sky now reporting "European Super League" with 5/6 teams from England - dunno why we don't just kick the fcukers out.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests