Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:16 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:40 pm
For the stats about shots, it's only significant if they go in the onion bag and turn into points (in greater frequency than the oppo manage), otherwise might as well count corners too.
Hmm. Bit reductive, IMO. Obviously goals are the only important metric, but shots can give a reasonable interpretation of the game. For instance, we had four attempts on goal (Arthur 3 + Isgrive) after the 71st-minute substitutions, which was twice as many as we’d had beforehand. Seems a reasonable reflection of the improvement (and previous dearth), no?

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:43 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:16 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:40 pm
For the stats about shots, it's only significant if they go in the onion bag and turn into points (in greater frequency than the oppo manage), otherwise might as well count corners too.
Hmm. Bit reductive, IMO. Obviously goals are the only important metric, but shots can give a reasonable interpretation of the game. For instance, we had four attempts on goal (Arthur 3 + Isgrive) after the 71st-minute substitutions, which was twice as many as we’d had beforehand. Seems a reasonable reflection of the improvement (and previous dearth), no?
Not entirely convinced. Crawford has had 25 shots on his tod. There haven't been too many have had me leaping from the chair.

It's a bit like all the years Arsenal counted passes and shots and won fcuk all.

It wasn't a very good game tonight for either side imo. Certainly for the first 60 minutes, we collectively suffered from lump it (and lose it). I doubt Evatt would have told them to lump it, in the manner it was being lumped.

I really don't care too much how many shots we've had in a 2-0 win. 2 would be fine by me. :-)

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:53 pm
Intriguing. Not brilliant. Not even very good, really. But intriguing, and we move on with hope.

Add the word frustrating and that's been my summation after about half our performances under Evatt. I do have faith we'll come good - we bloody should do anyway - but I also think we'll limp along for a while yet.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:13 am

If Kioso was available on Saturday he would come in for Delf (or Isgrove), same formation. Doesn’t look like he came on for Luton last night but he’s clearly not coming back at the moment, unfortunately.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:11 am

Gnahoua has impressed me before in bursts. I think the issue for him is a) he's clearly best as a wide forward type in a 433 or similar setup and b) if he had anything like the ability to replicate his cameos on an even semi consistent basis he'd probably not be here.

Still he's one I think offers the ability to run at defences and we lack that quality elsewhere in the team.

Isgrove for me is a big disappointment. Perhaps its not a surprise when at 28 he's amassed on 75 league starts in his career. But you know he started 24 times for league winning Swindon last season so one assumes there is something there at this level....

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:38 am

Isgrove to me just seems to be missing when you expect him to be there. Even for our goal that’s Sarce breaking down his side - where was he?

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by DJBlu » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:51 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:38 am
Isgrove to me just seems to be missing when you expect him to be there. Even for our goal that’s Sarce breaking down his side - where was he?
In defence eating his birthday cake.

The only reason Sarc was there is because Isgrove was filling in for him again.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:15 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:43 pm
I really don't care too much how many shots we've had in a 2-0 win. 2 would be fine by me. :-)
Each to his own, but there's a reason people more fondly recall the Rioch/Todd promotions than the Parkinson one. Wins are nice - from what I can remember! - but actually enjoying the game might not be a high bar of expectation.
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:43 pm
It wasn't a very good game tonight for either side imo. Certainly for the first 60 minutes, we collectively suffered from lump it (and lose it). I doubt Evatt would have told them to lump it, in the manner it was being lumped.
I went to and fro on this. First two or three times Delaney gormlessly clonked it into the atmosphere I thought "Evatt won't like that", same as the first two or three times Gilks knocked his goal kicks in the general vicinity of Brockbank. But the more it happened, the more it felt like some sort of... plan? :conf:

There's a reason I don't think Delaney is a "very Evatt" player and from what I hear the Irishman would've been off in summer if anyone were interested. To give player and manager credit, they've tried to make it work. Not sure it'll last, though. Greenidge is back Saturday - will Evatt stick or twist?
nicholaldo wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:53 pm
Intriguing. Not brilliant. Not even very good, really. But intriguing, and we move on with hope.
Add the word frustrating and that's been my summation after about half our performances under Evatt. I do have faith we'll come good - we bloody should do anyway - but I also think we'll limp along for a while yet.
Bob on mate. Same here.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:11 am
Gnahoua has impressed me before in bursts. I think the issue for him is a) he's clearly best as a wide forward type in a 433 or similar setup and b) if he had anything like the ability to replicate his cameos on an even semi consistent basis he'd probably not be here.

Still he's one I think offers the ability to run at defences and we lack that quality elsewhere in the team.

Isgrove for me is a big disappointment. Perhaps its not a surprise when at 28 he's amassed on 75 league starts in his career. But you know he started 24 times for league winning Swindon last season so one assumes there is something there at this level....
Agreed with all this, too. Gnahoua is better coming on the game than with his back to goal so 4-3-3 should suit him, as you say. And maybe Delf needs dropping or at least to feel pressure for his place. Don't think many could argue if Arthur starts Saturday with Delf benched.

But then that would mean keeping faith in Isgrove, who appears to be a throwback winger in that he's infuriatingly erratic and unreliable. Last season (per Transfermarkt) he got five assists in their first seven league games and then none in his subsequent 29 league appearances (of which 15 were starts). To be clear, as with any Wanderer I would love him to be a success but, well, hmm. If you can play that many times as a winger in a promoted team and somehow manage not to create any goals, it's not a great look.

But as you say with Gnahoua – if he were consistently good he probably wouldn't be here. We just have to accept that our new reality will involve a lot of sifting.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:14 pm

He (IE) went absolutely ballistic at Delaney after one of the aimless clumps forward in the second half.

The one he bollocked him for was a bit harsh I think. Gilks took 9 years to roll it 5 yards to him and he was at least under pressure near his own box. But I think his benefit of the doubt had gone.

Thought Santos did well last night. Unsure about Delaney. I still think there's a player in Greenidge but him and Santos together would be...something.
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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:50 pm

If there’s anyone here who would advocate a Santos/Greenidge centre half pairing please raise your hand and I will make your presence know to the doctors.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:55 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:14 pm
He (IE) went absolutely ballistic at Delaney after one of the aimless clumps forward in the second half.

The one he bollocked him for was a bit harsh I think. Gilks took 9 years to roll it 5 yards to him and he was at least under pressure near his own box. But I think his benefit of the doubt had gone.

Thought Santos did well last night. Unsure about Delaney. I still think there's a player in Greenidge but him and Santos together would be...something.
Interesting, cheers, didn't see/hear Evatt's explosion. That might suggest he didn't want Delaney to do it... or to do it like that? Either way, whether we like it or not I think we might fairly soon see the comedy stylings of the Santos-Greenidge double act Rik-and-Adeing their way around the pitches of Merrie England. There's Baptiste too but I suspect Evatt will want at least two six-footers, and understandably so. (For the record Bap and Brocky are 5'11, Jones and John 5'10, Kioso 6'0)

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by irie Cee Bee » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:16 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:50 pm
If there’s anyone here who would advocate a Santos/Greenidge centre half pairing please raise your hand and I will make your presence know to the doctors.
Might be on Saturday if an aerial bombardment is expected!

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:20 pm

Delaneys better in the air than Greenidge. He’s 6’4 isn’t he?? I think the suggestion is that Greenidge has looked more comfortable with the ball at his feet...that’s fine until he falls over it (which he did do against crawley). It would be one of the mentalist decisions in our history to pair them together.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by irie Cee Bee » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:55 pm

Dulaney was better earlier in the season, but since his goal, he has dropped off massively. Not sure why. Better than the awkward Greenidge at the moment? Who knows? I can only judge when I see them play and Greenidge did ok to me last time out, wasn't afraid to be physical, tackle and can pass. A mistake waiting to happen..maybe, but need games to come up to speed. Just don't let him take throw ins.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:00 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:20 pm
Delaneys better in the air than Greenidge. He’s 6’4 isn’t he?? I think the suggestion is that Greenidge has looked more comfortable with the ball at his feet...that’s fine until he falls over it (which he did do against crawley). It would be one of the mentalist decisions in our history to pair them together.
I think Delaney is "only" 6'2. Greenidge along the giants but yet to be convinced he can actually head.

One thing he does have is pace. Which makes helps the high press.

I reckon it's a toss-up again between Delaney/Greenidge/Baptiste for Saturday. They all have their weaknesses (as does Ricardo tbf). I'm not predicting a clean sheet whichever he picks :lol:
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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:03 pm

Delaney's 6'5, Greenidge 6'6, but it't not all about height – Iles pointedly noted how Delaney had been physically outdone by their 5'8 forward for the goal. And the Irishman's drop in form meant it wasn't a total shock when he lost his place for the previous game.

I don't think anybody is exactly gagging for a Santos-Greenidge partnership – we'll all be watching through our fingers - just saying it might happen.

As ICB points out - on Saturday it's Cheltenham again, with their 8 foot 9 centre-back chucking it toward the area from any throwins in our half. Whichever centre-backs are chosen, they'll need to stand up.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:20 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:15 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:43 pm
I really don't care too much how many shots we've had in a 2-0 win. 2 would be fine by me. :-)
Each to his own, but there's a reason people more fondly recall the Rioch/Todd promotions than the Parkinson one. Wins are nice - from what I can remember! - but actually enjoying the game might not be a high bar of expectation.
If I rank these in order of desirability in the order according to me :-) , I'd rather see 2) than 3) and there's an argument that we're currently nearer 4) so it's all a bit semantic.

1) attractive winning football
2) unattractive winning football
3) attractive losing football
4) unattractive losing football

Coyle tried to play "enjoyable" football which got us relegated, I don't think many remember his time in office very fondly in the same way as they recall Rioch/Todd. I don't generally associate enjoyment with losing, I'm afraid - the whole idea of football is to win the game. Sure there's the odd game where you come out on the wrong end of a 5-4 and you go great game fair do's. It ceases to remain enjoyable when the L column has a much bigger number in it than the W column. I'm not coming away from games at the minute thinking that was great football, entertaining and I enjoyed it, I just haven't gone completely to the dark side yet calling for Evatt's head on a stick over the Macron.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:13 am

“If you want entertainment, go to the circus”?

Nobody’s saying attractive losing football is better than unattractive winning football. Because that’s daft.

What I’m saying is that if my team only shoots twice in a game, it isn’t much fun as if they shoot 20 times. But yeah, the worst of all worlds is losing and not shooting. We’ve had that, too, for two seasons under Parkinson. It’s as close as I’ve come to drifting away from the club because the football was so devoid of entertainment, of life, of hope. You may be different; fair enough. You may not give a damn how many shots we have; fair enough. I do. For me, how I choose to spend my money and time is not just a results business. It’s a live spectator sport and I’d rather it be entertaining. That’s all. :D

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by irie Cee Bee » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:28 pm

Winning is everything for me. Makes my weekend a whole lot better regardless of how we play.

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Re: Exeter Expects. Exeter City v Bolton (A) - 19:00 - 12th Jan

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:42 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:13 am
“If you want entertainment, go to the circus”?

Nobody’s saying attractive losing football is better than unattractive winning football. Because that’s daft.

What I’m saying is that if my team only shoots twice in a game, it isn’t much fun as if they shoot 20 times. But yeah, the worst of all worlds is losing and not shooting. We’ve had that, too, for two seasons under Parkinson. It’s as close as I’ve come to drifting away from the club because the football was so devoid of entertainment, of life, of hope. You may be different; fair enough. You may not give a damn how many shots we have; fair enough. I do. For me, how I choose to spend my money and time is not just a results business. It’s a live spectator sport and I’d rather it be entertaining. That’s all. :D
To suggest what we're seeing now is 'entertaining' is the major problem I have. Its about as entertaining as lettuce. Wet lettuce with no dressing.

Under Parky we certainly weren't pretty but two seasons ended up with fans invading the pitch in jubilant celebration. I will remember the Port Vale away game till I die. We didn't even go up that day but it was special. A moment when fans, team, manager and whole club (minus sweaty Ken) were at one. It was great. The week after, not quite as exciting but still special and an achievement. For me those are the moments I'm in football for. However they are accomplished. If I go down the years I can remember them all clear as day, Robbie at Wrexham and the scenes that followed, nerveless Super John against Preston as people couldn't watch, Mixu banging in the greatest goal of his career to level against Swindon, Fabiaaaaannnnnnoooooooo, Super John nabbing the winning against Arsenal..........I could go on and on right through Todd, Allardyce, Megson, even Coyle there were those magic moments, ones etched in memory forever. Whether the season itself was great or not, whether the style was silky or rough round the edges you had those moments, some built up to, some out of nowhere. Right up to Aaron Wilbraham's header. Since then we've not had a moment so much as a depressing and fruitless series of horrible failure and excuses and agony over the basic survival of the club. Perhaps we've had one....the goal at Rotherham - I'll give Hill that. One.

But yeah its been a bit awful. And that for me is why style, how you play is pretty irrelevant. You can create magical, unforgettable moments even in a season where you have two managers who won't talk to each other and a group of players woefully below par for the top flight. You don't need to be flying. You just need to have a team that at least dies for the cause. And a club behind them.

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