Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed May 03, 2023 10:59 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:40 am
Excellent work by DSB on GK's - but, I think I saw a couple with "Scottish" in their write up. Really? Goalkeeper and Scottish? :-)
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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Worthy4England » Wed May 03, 2023 11:08 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:59 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:40 am
Excellent work by DSB on GK's - but, I think I saw a couple with "Scottish" in their write up. Really? Goalkeeper and Scottish? :-)
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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed May 03, 2023 10:08 pm

Are we assuming Dixon will be released and Hutchinson promoted to 2nd keeper? Therefore just the one senior keeper to find?
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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by brommers95 » Wed May 03, 2023 10:31 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:08 pm
Are we assuming Dixon will be released and Hutchinson promoted to 2nd keeper? Therefore just the one senior keeper to find?
Dixon will be realised yes. I wouldn’t rule anything out, but I’d say it’s unlikely Hutchinson is trusted to be 2nd choice for a Championship or promotion chasing L1 side. His contract is up this summer and so far there’s be no news of a new deal so he might even be released.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed May 03, 2023 10:48 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:08 pm
Are we assuming Dixon will be released and Hutchinson promoted to 2nd keeper? Therefore just the one senior keeper to find?
I'm not assuming anything but if Dixon is kept on it might just be the single most surprising thing Evatt has done.

Like Brommers, I'm also not sure we'll promote Hutch that far that soon. No rush.

Loaning a keeper again makes sense, but I think we will also get a permanent in. Be interesting to see who that is – whether it's a safe-hands old-boy back-up (a Gilks type - Frank Fielding perhaps) or a younger fella who could really make the position his own - Nathan Bishop has been linked before. I think I'd prefer the latter – it's one position we've never really had competition in.

I'll get round to looking at potential freebies. It's a hugely crucial position for any team, but this summer's a hinge in history for us - and arguably Evatt. We're losing an excellent goalkeeper and we don't want to drop away next season. Wouldn't surprise me if we even pay some money for the right man - goalkeepers tend to be underpriced, weirdly.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Mar » Wed May 03, 2023 11:11 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:48 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:08 pm
Are we assuming Dixon will be released and Hutchinson promoted to 2nd keeper? Therefore just the one senior keeper to find?
I'm not assuming anything but if Dixon is kept on it might just be the single most surprising thing Evatt has done.

Like Brommers, I'm also not sure we'll promote Hutch that far that soon. No rush.

Loaning a keeper again makes sense, but I think we will also get a permanent in. Be interesting to see who that is – whether it's a safe-hands old-boy back-up (a Gilks type - Frank Fielding perhaps) or a younger fella who could really make the position his own - Nathan Bishop has been linked before. I think I'd prefer the latter – it's one position we've never really had competition in.

I'll get round to looking at potential freebies. It's a hugely crucial position for any team, but this summer's a hinge in history for us - and arguably Evatt. We're losing an excellent goalkeeper and we don't want to drop away next season. Wouldn't surprise me if we even pay some money for the right man - goalkeepers tend to be underpriced, weirdly.
Has anyone heard any reports around Hutchinson? Doesn't sound like people have been singing his praises as the next big thing and you would've suspected if he was poised for getting a first team spot it would've been done previously in the season at the expense of Dixon who wasnt exactly ripping up trees.

It's a shame for Dixon. I'm sure Evatt likes the guy but it's a tall order to step up from the conference. Still, I'd expect him to be gone at the end of the season for the clubs benefit as well as his own.

I'm hoping we can sign someone of quality that is our own player to free up one of the loan slots.

I'd be tempted to look at Vaclav Hladky (32yo) from Ipswich. Played in Salfords 2020-21 season, conceding 45 goals in 52 games, 34 in 46 games with 22 clean sheets (League Two), best defence in the league. Was signed as first choice for Ipswich, lost his place and never regained it. Given he was at Salford he'll know this area well so that should help him settle. He's got one year left on his contract IIRC so should be somewhat of a stick or twist situation for the player and the club.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by The_Gun » Thu May 04, 2023 7:50 am

This Conor Hazard is perhaps the most interesting sounding name mentioned, albeit I have little to no knowledge of any of them.

He’s listed as being 6’6 - the same size as Trafford, and clearly has something about him if he’s earned Norn Iron caps and was keeper of the season in Finland last year.

You’d like to think we’d have the inside track on whether he has the character and ability to be our number one given our large NI contingent. If reports are good I’d hazard a guess that we’d be near the front of the queue for this chap.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu May 04, 2023 7:56 am

Hladky I remember from our season down there was very well regarded. My only question would be whether he’s any good with his feet, as required by Evatt (and McKenna, who presumably had a reason to prefer an alternative).

Same question would apply to Vigouroux, the Orient keeper who’s having a stormer - only keeper to outdo Traf for clean sheets - and is available on a free, or at least was last time I looked.

Same criterion would also apply to any goalie we fancy. You’d imagine academy goalkeepers are bred to it now. Older ones perhaps less so.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Worthy4England » Thu May 04, 2023 9:46 am

It's going to be interesting, either way. I think there was commentary (possibly me included) that thought there might have been a "blind spot" with Billy Crellin and Joel Dixon in the GK Department. Gilkes, I thought did good for us, and Traff has been excellent, so neither really "cost us" much, I suspect...

I don't think clean sheets is necessarily a great metric for GK's, as it's probably more dependent than most positions as to what you have playing directly in front of you. (Not a slight on Traff, he's been there more often than not, when needed :-) )

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 04, 2023 11:04 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:46 am
It's going to be interesting, either way. I think there was commentary (possibly me included) that thought there might have been a "blind spot" with Billy Crellin and Joel Dixon in the GK Department. Gilkes, I thought did good for us, and Traff has been excellent, so neither really "cost us" much, I suspect...

I don't think clean sheets is necessarily a great metric for GK's, as it's probably more dependent than most positions as to what you have playing directly in front of you. (Not a slight on Traff, he's been there more often than not, when needed :-) )
Saw some analysis based on some metric like expected goals from shots in target and Trafford had the highest differential between goals conceded and the xG stat in the league. Suggesting he’s probably statistically the best shot stopper. Obviously stats only go so far.

But I’ve seen enough this season to think the stats suggesting probably isn’t too outlandish.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Prufrock » Thu May 04, 2023 11:10 am

Regular xG is not a stat klaxon.

But broadly agree in that it's likely to give a fuller picture that just goals conceded/clean sheets/ naked eye
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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu May 04, 2023 11:15 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:46 am
It's going to be interesting, either way. I think there was commentary (possibly me included) that thought there might have been a "blind spot" with Billy Crellin and Joel Dixon in the GK Department. Gilkes, I thought did good for us, and Traff has been excellent, so neither really "cost us" much, I suspect...

I don't think clean sheets is necessarily a great metric for GK's, as it's probably more dependent than most positions as to what you have playing directly in front of you. (Not a slight on Traff, he's been there more often than not, when needed :-) )
Wasn't just you questioning our GK scouting - I have vocally worried about it too. Three of our first four signings in that position were Evatt's old team-mate, Evatt's old team-mate's former team-mate, and Evatt's old goalkeeper who he inherited at Barrow. Crellin was so awful that we had to roll old man GIlkes in; by the next season he'd jumped the shark so we had to pick Dixon instead.

In the meantime, the other signing was a young loanee from a local higher-division club – Burnley's Lukas Jensen – but he couldn't displace Gilkes, so it was fairly reasonable to assume he was no world-beater either.

So when the club's fourth GK signing – by now a year past the Tobias Phoenix era – was another young loanee from a local club, and one who'd just been drummed out of Accrington Stanley, you could forgive people for being underwhelmed. And Evatt's decision to drop Dixon for the youngster pretty much drew a line under the older man's Bolton career (he did get some early Pizza Cup games this season – until another shaky performance ended that, too).

Thankfully Traf started with four clean sheets and never looked back. With that in mind, we might look back and reappraise. Jensen could have been a smart move (and might be again given his successful spell at Accy). Gilkes was never supposed to be a first-teamer, and Dixon was probably alright as a back-up.

But still, given the importance of the position, it's a big question/concern.

As for clean sheets, shots saved - they're all useful metrics but as Worthy says, no keeper exists in a vacuum. Which only strengthens the applause to our defenders and coaching staff...

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Mar » Thu May 04, 2023 11:43 am

Whatever happens, it'll be a challenge to replace Trafford.

The concerns about our ability to sign decent GK's should be well documented by now that we'd take significant insights to resolve it. Perhaps the new goalkeeper that City have signed would prove to be a good replacement. Seems like Man City have a breadth of talent spotting and hoovering up the exact sort of player that we need (Bazunu, Trafford, etc.).

Not saying it'll work as well as Trafford but certainly should help keep costs down and help.



I'm more confident we'll find a replacement for Bradley. Ideally he'd be here next season, but given our track record of signing quality in that area I think we'll be ok. Certainly had impressive right backs under Evatt (Kioso, Bradley, Fossey, Isgrove).

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by The_Gun » Thu May 04, 2023 12:39 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 11:04 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:46 am
It's going to be interesting, either way. I think there was commentary (possibly me included) that thought there might have been a "blind spot" with Billy Crellin and Joel Dixon in the GK Department. Gilkes, I thought did good for us, and Traff has been excellent, so neither really "cost us" much, I suspect...

I don't think clean sheets is necessarily a great metric for GK's, as it's probably more dependent than most positions as to what you have playing directly in front of you. (Not a slight on Traff, he's been there more often than not, when needed :-) )
Saw some analysis based on some metric like expected goals from shots in target and Trafford had the highest differential between goals conceded and the xG stat in the league. Suggesting he’s probably statistically the best shot stopper. Obviously stats only go so far.

But I’ve seen enough this season to think the stats suggesting probably isn’t too outlandish.
Subjectively, I think Trafford is by far the best shot stopper in the division, and I think one of the best I've seen in the entire country this season. I seriously think that in that regard he is not far off the likes of Pickford and Ramsdale, however, his distribution and decision making are not yet up to the same level, and are what will hold him back from playing in the PL next season, for me.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu May 04, 2023 1:56 pm

The unseen factor: How would any of these potential choices have done with our defence in front of them? We've seen a few good keeping performances where we've exploited defensive weaknesses whilst admitting there was nothing the keeper could have done about it including ours) . How many would Traff have let in with a Forest or Accrington back line?
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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu May 04, 2023 4:58 pm

There's also these keepers I mentioned on April 1.
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
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Passing the time during a quiet shift. Had a peep at keepers out of contract in summer and also picked up one potential loanee, but in the main these are potential permanent transfers to upgrade from Dixon, rather than replace Trafford.

Harry Isted – Luton have sat on this lad for five years, loaning him hither and yon. Latest destination is Barnsley, where he's kept 5 clean sheets in 11 games, in which the Tykes have gathered 28 points. Even so, Luton have plenty keepers and Isted (now 26) is noted for composure on the ball – an Evatt must.

Frank Fielding - the Blackburn-born keeper will be 35 by summer, but has remained on Champo teams’ books since 2015. Could be a Gilksy-style backup to a younger No.1, bringing the benefit of 350+ games across all three Football League divisions – more than half in the second tier.

Jordan Archer - former Millwall keeper is coming to end of his contract at QPR, where he’s not managed to displace Seny Dieng. Turns 30 in April.

George Long – Sheffield-born, former Blades and Hull keeper has been Millwall’s No.1 since September, having displaced popular shot-stopper Bartosz Bialkowski, but might fancy moving back up north. Comfortable in distribution. Just turned 29.

Carl Rushworth - Halifax-born 21-y-o has been on loan at Lincoln from Brighton and racking up clean sheets – 14 so far, which as of this morning was bettered only by Traf and the keepers at Ipswich, Wycombe and Derby. And then today at Hillsborough, he saved 4 of the Owls' 5 shots on target to earn the Imps a point. Still under contract but Brighton may wish to try the Penniner on a bigger stage (hopefully a higher division).

Luke Southwood - lapsing contract at Reading. Now 25, he was loaned to Cheltenham and set himself a target of 10 clean sheets; he achieved it by February (he got his 15th today), and was then called up by Norn Iron, so Evatt will have the inside line from Dion/Toal/Bradley. Reading have a year's option but don't look certain to take it up.

Joel Coleman - Bolton-born, ex-Huddersfield (Markham?), currently on short-term contract at Ipswich, who play a similar style of football. Turns 28 in September.

Dimitar Mitov - Bulgarian (26) at Cambridge. Caught the eye in a cupset at Newcastle last January. Also caught Rangers' eye - they were linked last summer. Has had an injury this season. Could ask Jack Iredale for his thoughts.

Will Norris - With his Burnley contract leasing in summer, Norris went on loan to Peterborough in January and has impressed FergieJr: "I've been pleased with Will. Almost half of his appearances for us have ended in clean sheets. I know that’s not all down to him, but he brings a calmness and the composure I like to see in a goalkeeper. He’s another very good pro and a great lad.” Turns 30 in August. Has had a curious career - non-league, then Cambridge, then to Wolves and Burnley but has barely played "up there".

Lawrence Vigouroux – having a hella good season with Orient, keeping 20 clean sheets in 37 league games (the only EFL keeper to have more than Traf) and only conceding 25. That means he's now up to 55 shutouts in 144 games for them. Perhaps a question over whether he could move up - he wasn't nearly as impressive in the third tier at Swindon, including gifting us a goal there - but his stats are impressive and he was on the books at Spurs and Liverpool earlier in his career. Turns 30 in November.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by DJBlu » Fri May 05, 2023 10:53 am

Ian Evatt has signed a new contract today.

Deserved I'd say. How often does that happen in this day and age?

Club also protecting itself with the compensation I'm sure we'd receive should he depart for pastures new.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri May 05, 2023 10:57 am

DJBlu wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 10:53 am
Ian Evatt has signed a new contract today.

Deserved I'd say. How often does that happen in this day and age?

Club also protecting itself with the compensation I'm sure we'd receive should he depart for pastures new.
Its good news. I should add that I've never worried Evatt would leave and I don't think its a big concern now moving forward.

I think the only time that becomes an issue is IF we ever really do look stuck in league one for a significant period with no real sense of improvement possible. And hopefully that doesn't happen.

I think Evatt is fully aware of the perils of moving jobs and the general situation for managers out there. You move jobs you easily can be unemployed within 6 months.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by The_Gun » Fri May 05, 2023 11:28 am

Excellent news regarding Evatt. I don’t always agree with his decisions, but we’ve clearly been on an upward trajectory since he’s been here and you really can’t ask for much more than that.

On a related note, Nixon is linking Markham to the Director of Football role at Huddersfield. I can see that they’d be interested in him, but not sure the interest would be mutual.

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Re: Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

Post by Worthy4England » Fri May 05, 2023 12:20 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 11:28 am
Excellent news regarding Evatt. I don’t always agree with his decisions, but we’ve clearly been on an upward trajectory since he’s been here and you really can’t ask for much more than that.

On a related note, Nixon is linking Markham to the Director of Football role at Huddersfield. I can see that they’d be interested in him, but not sure the interest would be mutual.
I think that last bit has been hanging round a few months now, but worth repeating. :-)

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