Watford Away 09/08/2014 - Match Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

oh - i agree... but the lack of those players is surely at least partly to be blamed on Dougies insistence in playing BOTH medo and spearing when they plainly don't work together...

and - if we haven't the personnel to play 4-4-2 - and should be playing 1-up - and Cravies is that man - why bust a gut to sign Mason?

Because we haven't got any other attacking options? Mason and Davies might be worth a try.

I don't mind Medo and Spearing away from home, but not with Pratley. And not with Chungy and Danns wide. Soon as I saw the team yesterday I groaned and not with pleasure....

[Peter Thompson]

If I was ED I'd instruct Gartside to get Freedman into his office and get an immediate answer to the fact that he's now had 2 years to build a team in whichever system that he thought would get us out of this league....and we are now no closer than we were 2 seasons ago.

Both in regards to getting the right players in that are capable of playing Freedman's dull dour as fcuk 4-2-3-1 OR finding a more productive more attack minded system to get the best out of the squad of players that he (Freedman) has assembled himself

I'd then make sure that Freedman was asked why the fcuk have I (ED) sanctioned signings such as - Beckford. C Davies, Medo, Moxey, McNaughton, Danns, Feeney, Trotter, Dervite, Spearing, Hall, Tierney, Wilkinson as Freedman had requested, and still not seen any improvement whatsoever on the pitch and still get Freedman moaning about finances and the make up of his team....

Why has Freedman not brought in the type of players who can make his preferred system work, if this is how he wishes to play to get us the most points possible in this league. Also, if he really wants to change to 4-4-2 then he should be asked why didn't you use your budget to bring in 2 strikers capable of making it work instead of bringing in all these defenders & midfielders.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'd stick with Davies. But I'd play a more Allardyce-esque three with Mason and Feeney interchanging around him with an attacking midfield player too.

I'd like to see what happened with players around Davies. I don't see a two in there at all. Don't see the need either if we get players around Davies and support him.

problem with davies being a target man is that if you hoof the ball up to him, it never sticks to him - it bounces off and we lose it.. he has no control.. nor does he keep hold of it when he has it and bring others into play...

granted he can whack a ball, give it some welly, but...

1) he's rarely in a position to do so
2) he never receives it to his feet

Are we playing hoofball? Did they against Watford?

We twatted it down the wings, Sunday League style - into the corners, more than we twatted it down the middle. However, as thebish attests, whenever we pumped it up to Davies he displayed all the ball control of baggy underpants. I remember one incident whereby he tried to take it on his chest and merely succeeded in chesting it down to a Watford players feet who was stood some five yards away.

[Bruce Rioja]

Mason and Davies might be worth a try.

As far as I can see, that's our only hope. He HAS to try them.

[twilight]

Hoof up to davies who can't control the ball. Pratley like a headless chicken, Medo was Watford's best attacking player, hoof down the wings where there wasn't anybody at all. Chung can't beat a player shock, horror) Moxey in nowhere land usually, Ream and mills so slow turning it was unreal. Lonergan flapping at corners.....apart from that we're looking ok......

Super Dougie will sort it out by Forest match though

[thebish]

We twatted it down the wings, Sunday League style - into the corners, more than we twatted it down the middle. However, as thebish attests, whenever we pumped it up to Davies he displayed all the ball control of baggy underpants. I remember one incident whereby he tried to take it on his chest and merely succeeded in chesting it down to a Watford players feet who was stood some five yards away.

yes... precisely the incident that came to my mind when it was suggested the Cravies is a target man...

[bwfcdan94]

Hoof up to davies who can't control the ball. Pratley like a headless chicken, Medo was Watford's best attacking player, hoof down the wings where there wasn't anybody at all. Chung can't beat a player shock, horror) Moxey in nowhere land usually, Ream and mills so slow turning it was unreal. Lonergan flapping at corners.....apart from that we're looking ok......

Super Dougie will sort it out by Forest match though

You Have got more confidence than I have Twilight, I would expect that our most realistic chance of winning a game this month will be at the equally hapless Leeds.

[Bijou Bob]

Robbins has already been sacked by Huddersfield. I feel a drubbing coming on come Saturday and DF will likely get two games after that to turn it round. At that point, first fat aris out of the door should be Fat Phil. That's four of his choices now that have seen us get steadily worse. Time to fall on the sword.

[Worthy4England]

However, as thebish attests, whenever we pumped it up to Davies he displayed all the ball control of baggy underpants.

Bastard. I now have Corona coming down my nose.

[TonyDomingos]

We were warned about Moxey:

Very positive views re:Moxey from Palace fans:

http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=252847

"Positionally shocking defender."

".... defence is all about discipline and focus and they are not the best features of deanos game."

"Athletically he is superb, but positioning he is awful."

"Good pro but i couldnt believe when people insisted that his performances were good"

[Andy Waller]

I'd stick with Davies. But I'd play a more Allardyce-esque three with Mason and Feeney interchanging around him with an attacking midfield player too.

I'd like to see what happened with players around Davies. I don't see a two in there at all. Don't see the need either if we get players around Davies and support him.

problem with davies being a target man is that if you hoof the ball up to him, it never sticks to him - it bounces off and we lose it.. he has no control.. nor does he keep hold of it when he has it and bring others into play...

granted he can whack a ball, give it some welly, but...

1) he's rarely in a position to do so
2) he never receives it to his feet

I agree but none of that is fixed by playing another striker with him. I actually think given his height and power getting more players around him would be beneficial than just having Beckford up there with him.

Key is to get players around the striker not leave them isolated. IMO.

I can't get my head around this, it's agreed that Cravies can't play up front on his own so getting more players around him would help? So we play with Mason (possibly) and Danns to support him. We can't commit to playing both those two too far forward so one, or both, drops back leaving two or one up front??

This works for teams like Chelsea with millions of pounds worth of strikers who have pace and talent to burn, but not for the likes of us with a squad of rejects and "never will be's"

I'd just like to see a basic 4 4 2, I don't think we'll rip up trees doing that, but it might help settle/balance the side.

[boltonboris]

Is twatting up front, Freedmans "playing through the middle of the park"?

Yes, I've quoted it, because he always fvckin says it

[BWFC_Insane]

I can't get my head around this, it's agreed that Cravies can't play up front on his own so getting more players around him would help? So we play with Mason (possibly) and Danns to support him. We can't commit to playing both those two too far forward so one, or both, drops back leaving two or one up front??

This works for teams like Chelsea with millions of pounds worth of strikers who have pace and talent to burn, but not for the likes of us with a squad of rejects and "never will be's"

I'd just like to see a basic 4 4 2, I don't think we'll rip up trees doing that, but it might help settle/balance the side.

I'd like us to play the sort of system we did under Allardyce with 2 wide players interchanging and supporting the striker an attacking midfield player getting into the box or dictating play (Mark Davies or if not Chungy) and Danns in the box to box role. For me such a system would allow some movement, players can rotate around, it would get Feeney and Mason offering threat in a couple of areas and in theory get more players around Craig Davies.

The thing with a 4-4-2 is that it worked with Juke and Mason together, two players that clearly developed an understanding and brought each other into the game. But we played Mark Davies on the left to accomodate it (not his best position) and really we predominantly relied on the two strikers to win us games. I don't think we've got that now so....

I think it is about bringing the best or trying to out of Mark Davies once fit and that for me isn't a 4 in midfield. My view is that if we've got any hope this season it is finding a way to get Mark Davies in his best role, with players moving around to give options and create space. I personally don't think that'll happen in a 4-4-2.

But I can see the argument for it. At least we can try it with Davies and Mason (assuming he signs) I guess.

[bobo the clown]

Until the clown (not me) accepts that playing both Medo and Spearing in holding roles at the same time doesn't work and, in fact, invites the very pressure he's setting out to control we will keep fckg up. He either has to use one differently or leave one out. It's like playing with 10 men from the very outset.

It restricts our ability to go forward. So makes us actively weaker defensively ... 180° different than his intention. We can see this ... why can't he ?

... & Prawle should be left on a railway line somewhere.

[thebish]

... & Prawle should be left on a railway line somewhere.

some kind of exotic welsh foodstuff??

[BWFC_Insane]

Until the clown (not me) accepts that playing both Medo and Spearing in holding roles at the same time doesn't work and, in fact, invites the very pressure he's setting out to control we will keep fckg up. He either has to use one differently or leave one out. It's like playing with 10 men from the very outset.

It restricts our ability to go forward. So makes us actively weaker defensively ... 180° different than his intention. We can see this ... why can't he ?

... & Prawle should be left on a railway line somewhere.

Is playing Medo and Spearing together the issue or is it the options in front of them? I don't have a problem with a 4-2-3-1 where Medo and Spearing screen the back four. But we need a genuine three in front that offer up movement and take the ball and do things with it. The issue for me is he picked a team with no outlet and that means you end up cramped trying to pass through congested areas.

I'd probably play Danns with Spearing and someone in front of them who can take the ball and do something with it. But Medo and Spearing aren't necessarily incompatible, just they need to have the right players in front of them.

[thebish]

Until the clown (not me) accepts that playing both Medo and Spearing in holding roles at the same time doesn't work and, in fact, invites the very pressure he's setting out to control we will keep fckg up. He either has to use one differently or leave one out. It's like playing with 10 men from the very outset.

indeed...

considering we have TWO defensive midfielders shielding the back four, it is surprising how big the gaping hole is in front of the back four whenever they are looking to make a pass out of defence - neither medo nor pratley were there anywhere near often enough to take that ball - give an option - carry some water - leaving the single option of twatting up to Danzzy#1

if we are gonna play two of them there - then SURELY there must be options to pass it out from the back - but on saturday there almost never were such options... no need for anyone to be able to make gloryball passes - just a simple short pass outlet, or maybe - perish the thought - one of them making a little triangle of passes with moxey and danns to release danns further forward... but - no - none of it...

[LeverEnd]

I've rarely seen a more incompetent 45 mins of attempted football than Pratley produced on Saturday. Others were poor in all sorts of ways but he looked completely lost, clueless and unable to even remotely control the ball let alone of anything with it. Bob wanted Chungy off at halftime and it wa hard to disagree, but at there is a slim chance of him improving whereas Pratley looked like he'd never played football in his life. Chungy did improve btw, at times he was almost mediocre in the 2nd half.

[Lord Kangana]

I think we played more bottom of the table football

Is what you meant.

[bobo the clown]

They are two of our best players but on there together they get in each others way. I don't see that you need two players covering the defence ... at least not if you have any faith in the defence. By sitting back so much you offer the opposition the opportunity to come at you time & time again. .... and when you DO have control of the ball you're sitting too deep to turn defence to attack in anything like a good speed.

That's not helped by one outlet CYL having lost speed or confidence or, and here's a thought, following the managers coaching instructions (???) and killing the game when he gets it. Feeny offers a blind determination to move the game forward when he has the ball ... but who's there to make use of that. So personnel matters, yes, but there is a lost place for the link man while we use both of them so deep.