Worried!!

[Hoboh]

Someone on Wandererways, with a bit of time on their hands, has put a bit of an explanation of his reading of the account over the last few years in relation to the debt. It's in pretty simple terms for someone like me, who is quite clueless when it comes to companies and their finances, but as anything has caused a bit of a debate on there.

There's a link below to the thread and I've quoted him below...

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topi ... ?p=1540423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who's money are we using to pay these apparent 'millions' to Eddie Davies?

Do you not understand that if we pay Eddie millions in interest, then he just has to give it us back (and more) because we aren't self sustainable. Every year since 2008 the loan to ED has gone up, if he then actually collects the interest that he charged us then all he is doing is increasing the amount of cash that he has to loan us back.

For example:

Financial CASH shortfall for the year (not the reported loss) is say £10m
Our interest charge for the year on ED's loan is say £3m
We pay ED (Moonshift) that £3m interest then suddenly our cash shortfall is £13m

Guess who gives us that £13m as a loan???

Seen as there seems to be a lot of people willing to drag ED's name through the mud, when actually he has been nothing short of a saint for us (and because I had a long train journey this morning with access to all the accounts) I decided to have a look through them and finally get a solid answer on just how much cash ED (Moonshift) has put into BWFC.

ED took over in 2004 and we turned a profit 04/05/06. The 1st notable cash inflow from him is the sponsorship of the new training ground in 07, he paid us £3.5m which was not part of the loan, it was a cash sum that was not to be paid back.

08 - he gave us the 1st loan of £4.5m
09 - Loan increased to £23m however there were 'charges from Moonshift in relation to interest and arrangement fees' of £2m - This means that the actual cash increase from Moonshift, net of their charges to us, was £16.5m
10 - Loan increased to £85m!!! Same charges as above, this time of £4m - Net cash increase in loan was £58m (We paid off the majority of the bank loan and spent £16m on players)
11 - Loan increased to £99m. Charges from Moonshift of £5m - Net cash increase in loan of £9m
12 - Loan increased to £125m. Charges from Moonshift of £5.5m - Net cash increase in loan of £20.5m
13 - Loan increased to £151m. Charges from Moonshift of £7m - Net cash increase in loan of £19m
14 - Loan increased to £174m. Charges from Moonshift of £0.1m - Net cash increase in loan of £22.9m

That gives a total cash loan from Moonshift, taking off the 'charges' (which is where the whole interest payment bullshit lies) to us each year, of just over £150m. For that money he now has some assets such as the ground and the training ground, but a lot of it was spent paying for our 10 years of success. How anyone can question what he has done for this club is frightening, I know Gartside has his critics but to to bring ED into it just proves you're a mentalist IMO.

A few other things of note whilst I was going through them:
Net cash spend on players 2004-2014 = £60m
Net cash spend on players 2007-2014 = £54m
Net cash spend on players 2013-2014 = £13m (proves that we went shit or bust at bouncing straight back up)

Average group turnover 2004-2014 = £52.5m
Average group turnover 2004-2012 = £56m
Average group turnover 2013-2014 = £36.5m

Salaries as a % of group turnover from 04 to 09 was always high 40's to high 50's - 2010 then shot up to 79% and stayed up there to 2013 where it reached 93% but then dropped to 68% in 2014.

Average gate receipts 2004-2014 = £6.5m
Average gate receipts 2004-2012 = £7.2m
Average gate receipts 2013-2014 = £3.5m

Use that as you want, it kept me entertained for a couple of hours and hopefully shuts any tw*ts up that have managed to get it in their head that ED has miraculously made money through his 10 years owning Bolton Wanderers.

What a load of bollox!

[Beefheart]

You might think it's a load of bollocks but it's the only analysis of the accounts I've seen that isn't, where people tend to claim that Eddie is in it for some tax dodge or is milking the club dry, or has misunderstood the going concern statement.

[Riviman]

New funding deal to replace the £5mill working cash overdraft with the bank:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/13 ... ef=mr&lp=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

New funding deal to replace the £5mill working cash overdraft with the bank:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/13 ... ef=mr&lp=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whither QuickQuid?

[Riviman]

http://www.nucleuscommercialfinance.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems to be a finance company for firms and businesses in trouble !!

[CrazyHorse]

New funding deal to replace the £5mill working cash overdraft with the bank:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/13 ... ef=mr&lp=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh good. There goes the stadium then.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

http://www.nucleuscommercialfinance.com/

Seems to be a finance company for firms and businesses in trouble !!

They're apostrophising plurals. I'm out.

(Mind you the other day I saw a pub sign: "Kids' eat free".)

[Bruno3]

http://www.nucleuscommercialfinance.com/

Seems to be a finance company for firms and businesses in trouble !!

They're apostrophising plurals. I'm out.

(Mind you the other day I saw a pub sign: "Kids' eat free".)

Should of been Kid's ??? (there are now two mistakes, both of which I hate)

[nelson66]

So Eddie Davis has lent us £150 million plus, and he charges the club hardly any interest on these loans - what a top fella.

Brilliant
We even have a few sellable assets to show for it.

HOWEVER

what would happen if Eddie were to pop his clogs ???????
these loans which he has given to BWFC would form part of his estate, and the executors of the estate might want to realise assets to pay out to those named as beneficiaries in his will.
Those beneficiaries might not give a stuff about BWFC - and would sell our club to whoever the highest bidder might be, and create long standing loan agreements to cover any remaining amounts which Eddie has loaned us to get the full value of these £150million loans.

So where does that leave us ?????

Basically unless Eddie WRITES OFF THE LOANS as has happened at other clubs - then we will be up the creek without a paddle

[Beefheart]

Nope, this is what I'm talking about, the debt is irrelevant. Cash flow is the problem. He can write off the debt, (as let's face it - he probably won't get any of it back) but we still wouldn't have any money. Forget the 'debt'.

[nelson66]

no - dont forget the debt

what happens if Eddies family decide to collect on the debt ?????

[jonnycooper]

I,m sure it will have been posted elsewhere on this site,(but) I,d be interested to see the actual proof of this £170m worth of loans from Eddie! A man who is reputedly worth £60m,I don't doubt (cough) that he made these loans but actual paper proof of fund transfers is always slightly interesting.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

What exactly are they going to collect? A Trotter and Moxey shirt? They owe themselves the money and there is no money to collect.

[Andy Waller]

Looking at those figures, has he done that much of a favour? Moonshift have made £23.6 million in "charges" from £178 million.

He's that rich, he's probably got to hide/lose money to save it going in tax. (I was reading Rod Stewart's autobiography and he said he was advised to buy a mansion he didn't need or he'd be taxed 81% of the money!)

By lending us the money, he's saved himself losing a hell of a lot tax and gained nearly £25 million.

He's done pretty well out of it really.

[CAPSLOCK]

Looking at those figures, has he done that much of a favour? Moonshift have made £23.6 million in "charges" from £178 million.

He's that rich, he's probably got to hide/lose money to save it going in tax. (I was reading Rod Stewart's autobiography and he said he was advised to buy a mansion he didn't need or he'd be taxed 81% of the money!)

By lending us the money, he's saved himself losing a hell of a lot tax and gained nearly £25 million.

He's done pretty well out of it really.

Its part of the debt

He hasn't actually had 25 million, otherwise it wouldn't be fcuking debt

[Worthy4England]

I'd be delighted with anyone who thinks ED might have made some sort of profit here, to take up the same money making scheme, on the same basis.

[bobo the clown]

I'd be delighted with anyone who thinks ED might have made some sort of profit here, to take up the same money making scheme, on the same basis.

^^ scary, isn't it ?!

On another site there's a whole menagerie of conspiracy theorists.

.... AND they have the vote !

[officer_dibble]

But seriously, this looks ominous.

[Hoboh]

You might think it's a load of bollocks but it's the only analysis of the accounts I've seen that isn't, where people tend to claim that Eddie is in it for some tax dodge or is milking the club dry, or has misunderstood the going concern statement.

Honestly, really!!! you believe that there is not some sort of prudent, financial benefit here to moonshine and the international investments of it's owner?
Nobody, nobody, except maybe an Arab, Russian, or whatever billionaire just chucks the kind of money about which moonshine have with not a prayer of getting it all back?
ED is a multimillionaire and got there by being nobodies fool, give him credit.

[norm the jedi]

You might think it's a load of bollocks but it's the only analysis of the accounts I've seen that isn't, where people tend to claim that Eddie is in it for some tax dodge or is milking the club dry, or has misunderstood the going concern statement.

Honestly, really!!! you believe that there is not some sort of prudent, financial benefit here to moonshine and the international investments of it's owner?
Nobody, nobody, except maybe an Arab, Russian, or whatever billionaire just chucks the kind of money about which moonshine have with not a prayer of getting it all back?
ED is a multimillionaire and got there by being nobodies fool, give him credit.

either that or the relegation and lack of bounce has fecked the plan tied them in and the only option left is reducing team outgoings to 12p whilst trying to sell on.. whatever the truth and I'm fecked if I know owt.. I think we are headed in one direction.. until someone takes on the debt and bankrolls significant investment...