Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[TKIZ!]

You only have to look at the likes of Boro, Leeds, Crystal Palace, Blackpool, Burnley to know that's not the case. There must be a minimum of 8 teams who have previously played in the Premier League in the Championship. You can't walk this league and especially not when the fans are on your back before you've started

[thebish]

I see! so - now it's the fans and nowt to do with the manager??

[Lord Kangana]

I'm guessing this impatience is also Coyle's fault?

You know, in for a penny and all that.

[89bwfc89]

I'm 23 Harry, one of my earliest BWFC memories is us beating Preston in the play-off final, so you're right, my generation wont really know much about life outside the prem. There's a complete lack of passion from some fans.

I go with my dad who's been going for longer than he would care to admit, he's got so much passion for BWFC and will really get behind the lads. You get kids turning round and laughing, it drives me insane, surely we're all there for the same reason? There's a woman who sits by me who'll give me a sympathetic glance if he really gets going (he doesn't half hate bad refs ) but that's not what I want, I want people doing the same as him and showing some bloody passion!

Didn't realise how much it annoyed me until I got that off my chest!

[Harry Genshaw]

I see! so - now it's the fans and nowt to do with the manager??

I'd say we all have a part to play. Even those of us listening to it on the radio

[Worthy4England]

You only have to look at the likes of Boro, Leeds, Crystal Palace, Blackpool, Burnley to know that's not the case. There must be a minimum of 8 teams who have previously played in the Premier League in the Championship. You can't walk this league and especially not when the fans are on your back before you've started

19 teams in the Championship have played in the Prem.

The missing ones being Cardiff, Peterborough, Bristol City, Huddersfield and Brighton, I think.

[TKIZ!]

I see! so - now it's the fans and nowt to do with the manager??

Aye I'm saying it would be better that once they step beyond the white lines(rock, free base) we stopped moaning, whinging and supported the team on the pitch

Cheers for the help on the teams Worthy, didn't realise it was that many

I see you're trying to play Devil's advocate here Bish.

We've lost one in seven though. Something that we haven't done since Megson

[Prufrock]

Firstly, I think BL3 is some sort of anti-computer buff who's wound us all up so he can use page after page of discussion about somebody you don't know to show how the internet isn't 'social interaction'. You saddos.

So, onto what I think about BL3. BWFCi said he reckoned the squad was easily good enough to get promoted. He now says it isn't, that isn't a '100% mind flip'. It is saying you were wrong. I'm in the same category (though I only think we're a proper striker away from attacking the top six). There's a difference between changing your mind, and applying completely different standards. What convinces me that BL3 is either a WUM or (brilliantly, given the condescending 'are you stupid' type posts) a total divvy prannock is that he slags folk off for having different standards for Coyle and Freedman (you'd have slagged Coyle off if he'd done that) yet he defended Coyle saying a large part of it was the players fault. Now he criticises Freedman for weird decisions like playing people who aren't wingers out wide. He's guilty of the complete opposite set of double standards.

FWIW I think folk should be as consistent as possible, but, I don't think the decisions a manager makes with a brand new team are always directly comparable to the decisions a manager makes with a team he has assembled himself.

I'm none the wiser...

Basically, folk are hailing BL3 as some sort of shaman because he is calling people for double standards whilst having his own set of opposing double standards.

I was channelling the spirit of a1 through the medium of Tyskie.

If you think that's weird, Hoboh has turned into thebish!

[Prufrock]

I funking despair at some of our fans. Totally agree with BB, BWFCi and TW15 here. What is it with our fans? I know I asked the same for Owen but would it not serve to get behind the manager rather than castigating him after 7 games?

Is it any real surprise that we respond better away from home because the fans are actually cheering the team on and are happy to see us build patiently.

It's like some have been infected with some footballing disease that stops the brain from working properly and only allows them to shout random insults at specific players

has a bolton crowd ever cheered the equivalent of being dicked by barnsley and ipswich at home?? i don't think the root problem here is the fans...

It's awful at the moment. Every miss-placed pass, every cross that isn't inch-perfect, every shot that doesn't go in. Folk waiting to jump on the players backs. It isn't a small pocket either. It isn't that we aren't beating Barnsley and Ipswich at home, it's that we aren't beating them 10-0 at half-time. We walked off 1-0 up at half time to Barnsley, and there was a pocket of boos to the side of me somewhere. Fecking madness. It doesn't excuse things on the pitch, but it does make getting beaten by Ipswich at home even less enjoyable.

[Hoboh]

I cannot fathom why some people think having a go at the players/manager is a new thing it's always gone on, maybe not quite as vocal but it has.
Back to the new gaffer the thing that I am finding very disconcerting is this rotation bug he seems bitten by, it never worked for Tinkerman despite spending £150 mill on a squad we could only dream of and even Red nose has come unstuck and made his task harder in the past feckin' about before champions league games so why is a pup of a manager with a squad that wouldn't make either of their teams reseverves going to make this work and worse still why do some think it will? I still cannot get away from a feeling this maybe Gartsides final cockup due to another bad choice I just hope he has the balls to do something about it sooner if it is.
Before anyone labels me a Doogie outer I ain't but how long he gets depends how the team shapes up and so far its just turned the key.

[Tombwfc]

It's clearly not all one thing or the other. We've been shit plenty of times away from home this season too (Burnley, Brighton, Millwall, Birmingham, Crawley, Hull).

And also, really we should be beating Ipswich and Barnsley. No side with serious promotion ambitions would be happy with either of those two results, especially if they'd already given everybody a head start. Yes nobody has a divine right/anybody can beat anybody/there's no easy games in the Championship, but seriously - unless you're planning to get relegated, at some point you have to say 'Well really we need to be winning here'.

So I can see why the fans are upset, but my issue is that there is next to no effort to actually support the team. It wasn't like the crowd were behind the players and then suddenly turned when it all went to shit. That would be understandable. Instead the backing ranged from barely concealed contempt when we were winning, then switched to all out abuse when we conceded.

It's a bit of a vicious cycle. We can't win over the fans until we string a few results together at home, but it's hard to see how we'll manage to string a few results together playing in front of that.

[Athers]

In my late 20's and it's usually blokes around 40-50 I have to call out about their unbelievable moaning (then again, high % of football fans are middle-aged now). At West Brom last season after 60 minutes of it I completely lost my temper and caused a scene shouting my head off at this bloke behind me. Highlight of the season for my mates though.

That age of supporter should have seen the club in a lot worse state than I have, but perhaps they weren't there either.

Thankfully those I sit with at home games are more likely to regale stories of when things were a lot worse than moan too much about the current lot, the aways though bring a high likelihood of being sat near a 90 minute moaner. They can't enjoy the game?

[officer_dibble]

My experience is home games = mid-old age bloke with glass half empty/fed up of seeing us play shit footbll for 5 season but nowt better to do on a weekend. Wheras away = total die hards who genuinely believe we should swat all those in front of us away or just pissheads!

its not a great mix. Im actually ejoying the unpredictability of the league..its just the bolton slide thats annoying!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

At West Brom last season after 60 minutes of it I completely lost my temper and caused a scene shouting my head off at this bloke behind me.

I'd have paid good money to watch you lose your rag in public.

[Andy Waller]

I'm not a "boo-boy" as the BEN usually puts it, but not long after we scored, you could see Ipswich moving the ball a lot better than we were and coming more and more into the game.

Considering people have been tonking them for 6 recently I don't think a win was too much to ask for.

This endless big hoof to Davies has either got to stop or we have to set ourselves up so it actually works, eg running off him, having a midfielder push forward for the knock down. I still can't see why we're playing wingers on their opposite side too?

It's daft, frustrating things like this that do get people's backs up. I don't boo the side but I will shout if something is happening time and time again without anything being done about it.

[boltonboris]

Do you shout and moan when we have a throw in and the ball ends up back at a CB's feet?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not a "boo-boy" as the BEN usually puts it, but not long after we scored, you could see Ipswich moving the ball a lot better than we were and coming more and more into the game.

Considering people have been tonking them for 6 recently I don't think a win was too much to ask for.

This endless big hoof to Davies has either got to stop or we have to set ourselves up so it actually works, eg running off him, having a midfielder push forward for the knock down. I still can't see why we're playing wingers on their opposite side too?

It's daft, frustrating things like this that do get people's backs up. I don't boo the side but I will shout if something is happening time and time again without anything being done about it.

It is stopping. Its very clear that they are trying not to do it, and are doing it far less since Dougie arrived.

And thats why its frustrating because we have a team learning to value posession, but a crowd not patient enough to see that being done.

[officer_dibble]

Its fecking simple really. We are far more likely to score when we have the ball than when we don't. Even if that means Zat Knight and Tyrone Mears are swapping passess from a throw in within our own half.

[BWFC_Insane]

Its fecking simple really. We are far more likely to score when we have the ball than when we don't. Even if that means Zat Knight and Tyrone Mears are swapping passess from a throw in within our own half.

Indeed, but the trouble is that there is a huge learning curve. And probably a gradual change in personnel required.

We're used to for the past 12 years, playing a "high tempo" game and feeding off second balls. Sure we played a bit at times as well. But usually off the second ball under Allardyce and under Megson and Coyle we played a little but generally resorted to high balls.

When you start valuing possession your quality becomes far more exposed. Anyone can knock it around but its whether you have enough players capable of "gear changes" who can unlock the opposition. I don't think we do currently, not on a consistent basis.

I suspect if we truly are to become a possession team it will be a long, slow and painful process. Whether it'll be worth it in the end time will tell.

As it stands for me we're too much of a hybrid, we don't really have the players suited to the old style long ball, second ball, game. Neither do we have a team suited to keeping it for long periods of time and patiently waiting for chances. We're betwixt and between IMO.

[Andy Waller]

Do you shout and moan when we have a throw in and the ball ends up back at a CB's feet?

There's nothing wrong with that if the ball is worked up the pitch but an aimless hoof does nothing.