Freedman out!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'm no Dougie apologist and I'm not defending the bloke. He's cocked it up for sure. All I'm saying is, there is a lot of focus on sacking a manager (who is culpable). We can keep sacking managers and replacing them, but the fact is we have a set of players that haven't been that arsed about playing committed football for a lot longer than Dougie has been her. Changing the manager isn't going to change a great deal in my opinion. Ngog still wont be arsed, Knight still wont be capable of concentrating for 20 minutes, let alone a game. You can run through a big chunk of the team (including some Dougie signings) and same theme remains.

I didn't want Dougie as manager, but I don't think sacking him is the answer.

[Annoyed Grunt]

Whilst I agree that results and some of Dougie's decisions are not good enough, and Dougie rightly should be getting stick for it. I do think some folk on here are letting the players off the hook. Dougie might piss about with the line-up too much and I do question what they are doing on the training ground, but these are professional footballers. They have trained under various managers since the age of 8 or 9. There is little Dougie can do to make them forget how to pass a ball properly, or shoot on target and defensive basics. Every single one of our players absolutely should be capable of all of that instinctively. Listening to commentary and the few games on streams it is obvious that a number of the players are coasting. Those players are already out of here, have no intention of signing new contracts. No commitment. We can sack Dougie, but I doubt it would make any difference with those players. Drop them and play anyone that does want to play. Even if they are so called inferior players. If Dougie does this and stops tinkering with the line-up every game I reckon results will improve a lot.

Isn't it down to the manager to set the shape and pattern of play as to how the side should be?

Look at United...pretty much same players but different manager......results not going their way....

[a1]

He signed seven of the team which finished the game, including three who apparently weren't deemed good enough to start ahead of the ones he didn't sign.

rodrigo likes this

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Whilst I agree that results and some of Dougie's decisions are not good enough, and Dougie rightly should be getting stick for it. I do think some folk on here are letting the players off the hook. Dougie might piss about with the line-up too much and I do question what they are doing on the training ground, but these are professional footballers. They have trained under various managers since the age of 8 or 9. There is little Dougie can do to make them forget how to pass a ball properly, or shoot on target and defensive basics. Every single one of our players absolutely should be capable of all of that instinctively. Listening to commentary and the few games on streams it is obvious that a number of the players are coasting. Those players are already out of here, have no intention of signing new contracts. No commitment. We can sack Dougie, but I doubt it would make any difference with those players. Drop them and play anyone that does want to play. Even if they are so called inferior players. If Dougie does this and stops tinkering with the line-up every game I reckon results will improve a lot.

Isn't it down to the manager to set the shape and pattern of play as to how the side should be?

Look at United...pretty much same players but different manager......results not going their way....

Yes, but he doesn't tell them to be shit at passing and not to bother tracking players etc etc. The players have to take responsibility for the fact that despite playing at close to the top of the game in England, they cannot pass and shoot with any degree of accuracy. Fairly fundamental skills for a professional footballer. I'm not defending Dougie, merely pointing out the players have at least as much to answer for.

As for United. Hardly the same thing. New manager imposing his own methods/style etc. How many games in? They may or may not pick up and perform better, but a lapse of a handful of games is a bit different to players not giving a shit for multiple seasons.

[BL3]

So the manager gets the credit when we finish 7th. The players get the blame when we're bottom. He has control over the success but not the failure?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

So the manager gets the credit when we finish 7th. The players get the blame when we're bottom. He has control over the success but not the failure?

Who said that? I certainly didn't. The players were just as culpable last season. Some narrow wins and draws papered it over, bit largely the same players and decisions are failing. That says to me that both manager and players are to blame. Keep blaming the manager for everything and you get what you deserve. A new chancer that will also deliver fck all at even more cost.

[BL3]

So the manager gets the credit when we finish 7th. The players get the blame when we're bottom. He has control over the success but not the failure?

Who said that? I certainly didn't. The players were just as culpable last season. Some narrow wins and draws papered it over, bit largely the same players and decisions are failing. That says to me that both manager and players are to blame. Keep blaming the manager for everything and you get what you deserve. A new chancer that will also deliver fck all at even more cost.

The manager signed the majority of the players who finished the game today. He also decided that three of his signings weren't good enough to start the game. One of them wasn't even in the squad. If the players were 'culpable' last season, what is he doing to address this?

[LeverEnd]

I agree to a point AT. I'm reluctant to say I want him sacked not because he doesn't deserve it but because like you I'm not sure it will make much difference to the useless bastards who make up our squad. Having said that, at some point he has to be held accountable. If there was someone out there who would come to us and I thought would improve these donkeys, I'd say sack him tomorrow.

[plymouth wanderer]

I think he'll get the sack now

[ChrisC]

I think he'll get the sack now

I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie has thought about walking. It won't happen because of the big contract he has compared to his previous but I think be knows himself that he is getting nowhere.

On the other hand he might be thinking if he can turn it around it will look good on his CV.


Can't see the sack coming just yet with him getting the loans but there was a lot of abuse thrown up at Gartside when Yeovil scored. I sit next to the bench below the VIP area and it was toxic when Bogdan let that goal in.

[thebish]

So the manager gets the credit when we finish 7th. The players get the blame when we're bottom. He has control over the success but not the failure?

Who said that? I certainly didn't. The players were just as culpable last season. Some narrow wins and draws papered it over, bit largely the same players and decisions are failing. That says to me that both manager and players are to blame. Keep blaming the manager for everything and you get what you deserve. A new chancer that will also deliver fck all at even more cost.

this is still where i am, i think..

i think the goalposts have now moved.

dougie was brought in to get us promoted last season - he failed (just) - or (next best thing) - this season - which seems less likely than we had hoped at the moment.

it's stupid not to blame dougie for some of that - it is failure - pure and simple.

BUT

if the job is now rebuilding something new - then my inclination is STILL to stick with him and trust that he is in for the long term and has a clue where he wants us to go and how to get there...

for that to happen - we will just have to suck up some pretty horrendous days - maybe far more than we hoped for - and today is one of them...

[Annoyed Grunt]

I don't think he's capable of building something new though....

[Whookam]

I don't think he's capable of building something new though....

Pretty much where I'm at.

[Peter Thompson]

So the manager gets the credit when we finish 7th. The players get the blame when we're bottom. He has control over the success but not the failure?

Who said that? I certainly didn't. The players were just as culpable last season. Some narrow wins and draws papered it over, bit largely the same players and decisions are failing. That says to me that both manager and players are to blame. Keep blaming the manager for everything and you get what you deserve. A new chancer that will also deliver fck all at even more cost.

this is still where i am, i think..

i think the goalposts have now moved.

dougie was brought in to get us promoted last season - he failed (just) - or (next best thing) - this season - which seems less likely than we had hoped at the moment.

it's stupid not to blame dougie for some of that - it is failure - pure and simple.

BUT

if the job is now rebuilding something new - then my inclination is STILL to stick with him and trust that he is in for the long term and has a clue where he wants us to go and how to get there...

for that to happen - we will just have to suck up some pretty horrendous days - maybe far more than we hoped for - and today is one of them...

Go on then, tell me what he's done to date (anything at all !) to give even the most ardent rose tinter confidence about Freedman having the ability, experience & know how to re build - tell you what lets give him more time and have the same conversation when were bottom of league 1 in 12 months time.

I'll say it again what has he improved in the last 12 months, quality of the pies ?

[bobo the clown]

ED & PG have not let him bring 3 players in this week while planning to sack him anytime soon.

However, his body language is flat and he's looking like he feels Lady Luck has deserted him. He needs a win, from somewhere, somehow, someway.

[BL3]

ED & PG have not let him bring 3 players in this week while planning to sack him anytime soon.

Sammy Lee spent the summer transfer window recruiting half a team. He was gone ten games into that season.

[thebish]

Go on then, tell me what he's done to date (anything at all !) to give even the most ardent rose tinter confidence about Freedman having the ability, experience & know how to re build - tell you what lets give him more time and have the same conversation when were bottom of league 1 in 12 months time.

I'll say it again what has he improved in the last 12 months, quality of the pies ?

we disagree. that's fine. i don't know what anybody's record would really prove in terms of guarantees about where they would take us.. you clearly have more faith in another manager-go-round than I have - which is fine.

[a1]

Sammy Lee spent the summer transfer window recruiting half a team. He was gone ten games into that season.

sammy lee didnt have coyle's hypnosis powers.

[Peter Thompson]

ED & PG have not let him bring 3 players in this week while planning to sack him anytime soon.

However, his body language is flat and he's looking like he feels Lady Luck has deserted him. He needs a win, from somewhere, somehow, someway.

Grateful for everything that ED has done for the club, but someone needs to be accountable for the current & recent debacle - Gartside is as much to blame as Freedman....but we need strong leadership so ED needs to step up and make some tough decisions as this cannot be allowed to go on much longer or they may as well lock the gates and turn the lights out.

The lack of leadership at the club from top to bottom is quite alarming and to be honest shambolic

[Peter Thompson]

Go on then, tell me what he's done to date (anything at all !) to give even the most ardent rose tinter confidence about Freedman having the ability, experience & know how to re build - tell you what lets give him more time and have the same conversation when were bottom of league 1 in 12 months time.

I'll say it again what has he improved in the last 12 months, quality of the pies ?

we disagree. that's fine. i don't know what anybody's record would really prove in terms of guarantees about where they would take us.. you clearly have more faith in another manager-go-round than I have - which is fine.

Bish, it was a simple question - what has he improved in the last 12 months to give any confidence in his ability to re build given more time ?