Freedman out!

[BWFC_Insane]

Conversely in the last season in the Prem, we were clearly better playing 4-5-1. I'm fairly sure DSB and others have made erudite posts that point to the fact that neither 4-5-1 nor 4-4-2 (or any other combo you think of) are a mantra for better football. The formation needs to fit the players you have and the way you're training.

A static 4-5-1 with no ability to transition from defence to attack doesn't work, a 4-4-2, with two clueless strikers probably doesn't work either. As the minute, with our two main strikers, I'm not sure it'd be any better, despite historical stats - the historical stats don't show that we didn't have Beckford as the second striker last season.

Testament to that is we played 2 up against Blackburn.....

[William the White]

Conversely in the last season in the Prem, we were clearly better playing 4-5-1. I'm fairly sure DSB and others have made erudite posts that point to the fact that neither 4-5-1 nor 4-4-2 (or any other combo you think of) are a mantra for better football. The formation needs to fit the players you have and the way you're training.

A static 4-5-1 with no ability to transition from defence to attack doesn't work, a 4-4-2, with two clueless strikers probably doesn't work either. As the minute, with our two main strikers, I'm not sure it'd be any better, despite historical stats - the historical stats don't show that we didn't have Beckford as the second striker last season.

Testament to that is we played 2 up against Blackburn.....

I'm interested in your current thinking Insane one... You spent the early part of this season saying that Freedman was a 'proper manager'. You even said he had more in his locker than Sam. Where are you up to now? Are you revising those opinions yet? Or are you still convinced he's the real deal and needs time?

I ask this without hostility. I'm conflicted myself. (Though I never thought there was anything to show him better than Sam!!!).

[BWFC_Insane]

Conversely in the last season in the Prem, we were clearly better playing 4-5-1. I'm fairly sure DSB and others have made erudite posts that point to the fact that neither 4-5-1 nor 4-4-2 (or any other combo you think of) are a mantra for better football. The formation needs to fit the players you have and the way you're training.

A static 4-5-1 with no ability to transition from defence to attack doesn't work, a 4-4-2, with two clueless strikers probably doesn't work either. As the minute, with our two main strikers, I'm not sure it'd be any better, despite historical stats - the historical stats don't show that we didn't have Beckford as the second striker last season.

Testament to that is we played 2 up against Blackburn.....

I'm interested in your current thinking Insane one... You spent the early part of this season saying that Freedman was a 'proper manager'. You even said he had more in his locker than Sam. Where are you up to now? Are you revising those opinions yet? Or are you still convinced he's the real deal and needs time?

I ask this without hostility. I'm conflicted myself. (Though I never thought there was anything to show him better than Sam!!!).

I did say potentially. I haven't changed my mind on the fact he's a good manager.

But clearly he needs results here and fast. But as I've said before my worry is we get another manager and the cycle repeats. Players buck up for a while perform a bit say how good the new guy is, then revert back to type.

My fear is that the problems need a long term solution and I don't see many of those, and frankly as bad as we are now, I'm worried that as a whole the club has completely lost its way top to bottom, not just on the pitch.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I have no animosity towards Dougie at all, but it hasn't worked out and there's no reason for him to be in a job anymore.

The Club's trajectory was well established before he got here.

The reason for him to be in the job is that turning that around is a big job and likely to take a handful of seasons.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Conversely in the last season in the Prem, we were clearly better playing 4-5-1. I'm fairly sure DSB and others have made erudite posts that point to the fact that neither 4-5-1 nor 4-4-2 (or any other combo you think of) are a mantra for better football. The formation needs to fit the players you have and the way you're training.

A static 4-5-1 with no ability to transition from defence to attack doesn't work, a 4-4-2, with two clueless strikers probably doesn't work either. As the minute, with our two main strikers, I'm not sure it'd be any better, despite historical stats - the historical stats don't show that we didn't have Beckford as the second striker last season.

True, this (thanks Worthy). You can play a winning formation and lose - indeed, that's usually what happens when a formation becomes popular (from catenaccio to Sam's 4-3-3): dullards copy it with inferior players, and they can't all win.

As is more often the case than his detractors might like, Frazier makes a good case. And it works in the gut: we should be good enough to take this division on (although 4-5-1 isn't necessarily negative, if played as the sort of 4-3-3 that took Palace up). But for all his careful calculations, Worthy's is the better point: you need good players, playing well, and well coached. At the moment, sadly, that's not the case for us.

[bobo the clown]

I have no animosity towards Dougie at all, but it hasn't worked out and there's no reason for him to be in a job anymore.

The Club's trajectory was well established before he got it here.

The reason for him to be in the job is that turning that around is a big job and likely to take a handful of seasons.

Completely correct. However he cannot survive while dropping points like he is, playing confused tactics like he does, looking utterly bewildered by it all ... like he does.

The long term only matters if you are surviving in the short term, and he isn't doing.

I remain liking the overall guy, but what's happening out there is ludicrous. We have no idea whether the players are with him but it doesn't look like it.

[jaffka]

Strong rumours coming out that he has lost the dressing room.

[thebish]

Strong rumours coming out that he has lost the dressing room.

with sat nav devices on phones there really is no excuse for this...

[jaffka]

Strong rumours coming out that he has lost the dressing room.

with sat nav devices on phones there really is no excuse for this...

Apparently eagles is the one turning the knife.

[thebish]

Strong rumours coming out that he has lost the dressing room.

with sat nav devices on phones there really is no excuse for this...

Apparently eagles is the one turning the knife.

blimey! sounds like you're ITK...

[jaffka]

Strong rumours coming out that he has lost the dressing room.

with sat nav devices on phones there really is no excuse for this...

Apparently eagles is the one turning the knife.

blimey! sounds like you're ITK...

I'm not, I won't claim to know the bloke who cleans the hair out of the showers

Just had an interesting chat earlier...

[thebish]

Strong rumours coming out that he has lost the dressing room.

with sat nav devices on phones there really is no excuse for this...

Apparently eagles is the one turning the knife.

blimey! sounds like you're ITK...

I'm not, I won't claim to know the bloke who cleans the hair out of the showers

Just had an interesting chat earlier...

presumably with someone ITK - which makes you, officially, ITK!!

[thebish]

^ and the dougie-outers are gonna be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cross with you if nowt happens tomorrow!!

[Hoboh]

What's the benchmark for the next 3 games (or is it 5 league games?)? I forget the points total we were on when he went.

We were on 10 or 11 - think 11 from 10 games...

11 after 10 games.....

4 after 9 games and 14 points off the play off spots ALREADY and some of you want to give him MORE time?

There really are some heads stuck in sand on here, the above is a FACT far worse than one that got the previous manager sacked, are we going down the route slowly of just giving up?

[jaffka]

^ and the dougie-outers are gonna be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cross with you if nowt happens tomorrow!!

Whatever happens we will still be bolton fans.

[Hoboh]

Strong rumours coming out that he has lost the dressing room.

with sat nav devices on phones there really is no excuse for this...

Apparently eagles is the one turning the knife.

Then I'd sack Freedman and soon after despatch Eagles and anyone else involved.

[ChrisC]

Seen Beckford today in the Trafford centre. Asked what was going wrong this season and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders and a "dunno mate"

Comes across as someone who really couldn't give a flying feck.

[LeverEnd]

Seen Beckford today in the Trafford centre. Asked what was going wrong this season and all I got was a shrug of he shoulders and a "dunno mate"

Comes across as someone who really couldn't give a flying feck.

It could of course be that he genuinely doesn't have a clue. Certainly looks that way! He and Dougie both. And me.

[Lord Kangana]

I have no animosity towards Dougie at all, but it hasn't worked out and there's no reason for him to be in a job anymore.

The Club's trajectory was well established before he got here.

The reason for him to be in the job is that turning that around is a big job and likely to take a handful of seasons.

Interesting. You've said yourself you like the guy, but its starting to sound like the renta-pundits on Match of The Day.... "look at Ferguson, thats what happens when you stick with your manager...". This approcah, of course, conveniently ignores 2 core points. Firstly that Ferguson had already been an incredibly successful manager in Scotland, and secondly that Manchester United hae the financial muscle (wherewithal, call it what you will) to take a long-term view.

I suppose thirdly you could add that at no time in the "sticking with him" phase did he have a team on the brink of League One. We're in serious trouble, its all well and good talking about long term plans, but in 9 months time this club could be ruined. We need a short tem fix now. And the man in charge isn't providing it.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I have no animosity towards Dougie at all, but it hasn't worked out and there's no reason for him to be in a job anymore.

The Club's trajectory was well established before he got it here.

The reason for him to be in the job is that turning that around is a big job and likely to take a handful of seasons.

Completely correct. However he cannot survive while dropping points like he is, playing confused tactics like he does, looking utterly bewildered by it all ... like he does.

The long term only matters if you are surviving in the short term, and he isn't doing?

I remain liking the overall guy, but what's happening out there is ludicrous. We have no idea whether the players are with him but it doesn't look like it.

What do we mean by 'surviving' in the short term though?

I personally do not think it is likely that we will go down this season. Do you have a different measure in mind.

I think and hope we will eventually settle on a formula that wins us some games and we'll push on and have a boring mid-table finish.

Am I happy about this given where we have fallen from? No. But I don't want to revert to a hire and fire policy because we're having a rough and embarrassing patch in the short term.

If the players won't play for him, the medium to long term job is moving them on, in my opinion.