Question about a fan takeover

[thebish]

With vast majority of the debt owed to ED rather than the bank or HMRC I'd say administration is unlikely. I'd think that ED would rather sell for an £Xm amount than end up with a mess, -10pts and eventually being offered 1p in the £1 for his debt anyway.

Let's hope so, but this has just appeared on the Beeb feed:

"Lennon told BBC Radio Manchester the club could be facing administration if the process isn't hurried along, and also said he's hoping Gartside makes a speedy recovery, as his own job as manager has been made more difficult with the chairman absent."

how does garty's absence make Lenny's job harder?

hmmmm... how confident are we that without eddie putting cash in, we can afford to pay the players? If we can't - then things start to go pear-shaped quite fast...

[bobo the clown]

With vast majority of the debt owed to ED rather than the bank or HMRC I'd say administration is unlikely. I'd think that ED would rather sell for an £Xm amount than end up with a mess, -10pts and eventually being offered 1p in the £1 for his debt anyway.

Let's hope so, but this has just appeared on the Beeb feed:

"Lennon told BBC Radio Manchester the club could be facing administration if the process isn't hurried along, and also said he's hoping Gartside makes a speedy recovery, as his own job as manager has been made more difficult with the chairman absent."

how does garty's absence make Lenny's job harder?

hmmmm... how confident are we that without eddie putting cash in, we can afford to pay the players? If we can't - then things start to go pear-shaped quite fast...

Similar to the fire-sale concept. If we fail to pay them then VERY quickly the players can act like free agents. Now ... Trotter doing that is all well & good. But there are a few with a value.

Again, this would only happen if ED is utterly incapable of mustering up some money. Money he may prefer not to stump up but which would prevent players waking out.

Hey, we're clearly in a bad way ... but the benefit of a single owner is that he can't simply walk without doing himself massive damage.

[thebish]

I quite like the sudden talk of urgency - I'm not in the ANYBODY WILL DO camp - but it would be great to get out of this limbo-world we've been fogging about in for so long...

[Beefheart]

Looking at the situation regarding administration, there are debts we owe that aren't to ED. Due within one year, according to the 2014 Accounts, we had £11m of loans and overdrafts. £3m in Trade Creditors. £2m to the tax man. £3.8m in deferred income (season ticket monies that we'd received and accounted for, but are actually a forward revenue), and £17m in accruals - Grand total £38m. I suspect the accrual is in relation to Moonshift Investments, but can't be sure....

If we assumed it was, we're still £20m in the hock. Which would be more than enough without anyone putting cash in, to send us into admin.

Well, neither of the last two sets of accounts have had clean opinions from the auditors re: Going Concern.

Each has said 'The audit report states that there is uncertainty concerning the company being a 'going concern'' Which presumably is down to Eddie Davies not giving them the assurance needed via a letter from the parent company. I've said before the debt isn't an issue (apart from that bit to external creditors Worthy mentioned), it's all about the cash flow. The debt added each year is essentially the difference between Cash In and Cash Out, with ED financing the difference with a cash injection. The amounts of the last few years are pretty staggering. £20-£25m per annum for the last five years. There'll be those that say 'ah, yeah, but it's a tax swindle! It's not really costing him anything!'. Now, I'm not a tax specialist, but that's bollocks. There isn't a financial adviser in the world who'd say investing your money in a football club was a good idea.

[thebish]

Looking at the situation regarding administration, there are debts we owe that aren't to ED. Due within one year, according to the 2014 Accounts, we had £11m of loans and overdrafts. £3m in Trade Creditors. £2m to the tax man. £3.8m in deferred income (season ticket monies that we'd received and accounted for, but are actually a forward revenue), and £17m in accruals - Grand total £38m. I suspect the accrual is in relation to Moonshift Investments, but can't be sure....

If we assumed it was, we're still £20m in the hock. Which would be more than enough without anyone putting cash in, to send us into admin.

that represents a larger amount (owed to people other than Eddie) than I had imagined it to be! cripes!

[thebish]

£3mill in trade creditors = HUUUUUUUUUUGE stock of pies to offload.

[bobo the clown]

£3mill in trade creditors = HUUUUUUUUUUGE stock of pies to offload.

There's 3 or 4 of us could have a go at clearing that !

[thebish]

£3mill in trade creditors = HUUUUUUUUUUGE stock of pies to offload.

There's 3 or 4 of us could have a go at clearing that !

I think we should all do our bit!

[Aanvalluh]

£3mill in trade creditors = HUUUUUUUUUUGE stock of pies to offload.

There's 3 or 4 of us could have a go at clearing that !

Hang on, could that explain why the players are a bit slow off the mark

[Worthy4England]

£3mill in trade creditors = HUUUUUUUUUUGE stock of pies to offload.

There's 3 or 4 of us could have a go at clearing that !

Hang on, could that explain why the players are a bit slow off the mark

Never thought I'd say this, but we might need Trotter back...

[LeverEnd]

You read some comments on Twitter, news articles etc, that seem to assume that the people coming in will be not just be saviours but will splash the cash too. I'd be surprised if the cost cutting didn't continue, as we have contracted players on wages we can't afford. Medo, for example, who Lennon has never given a chance to and no-one else wants either. I'd like to bet that whatever the reduced wages are that the likes of Wheater, Pratley and Davies are on, they aren't reduced enough for our current situation. Parachute payments go soon and with them any chance of a quick return to the Prem. Whatever happens with the takeover I think we'll still remain much closer to (or in) League 1 than the Prem for the foreseeable future.
Have a nice day everyone!

[BWFC_Insane]

You read some comments on Twitter, news articles etc, that seem to assume that the people coming in will be not just be saviours but will splash the cash too. I'd be surprised if the cost cutting didn't continue, as we have contracted players on wages we can't afford. Medo, for example, who Lennon has never given a chance to and no-one else wants either. I'd like to bet that whatever the reduced wages are that the likes of Wheater, Pratley and Davies are on, they aren't reduced enough for our current situation. Parachute payments go soon and with them any chance of a quick return to the Prem. Whatever happens with the takeover I think we'll still remain much closer to (or in) League 1 than the Prem for the foreseeable future.
Have a nice day everyone!

Which is why I struggle to see anyone with sense buying us right now.....

[plymouth wanderer]

£3mill in trade creditors = HUUUUUUUUUUGE stock of pies to offload.

There's 3 or 4 of us could have a go at clearing that !

I think we should all do our bit!

Now we're talking!

[HMX]

You read some comments on Twitter, news articles etc, that seem to assume that the people coming in will be not just be saviours but will splash the cash too. I'd be surprised if the cost cutting didn't continue, as we have contracted players on wages we can't afford. Medo, for example, who Lennon has never given a chance to and no-one else wants either. I'd like to bet that whatever the reduced wages are that the likes of Wheater, Pratley and Davies are on, they aren't reduced enough for our current situation. Parachute payments go soon and with them any chance of a quick return to the Prem. Whatever happens with the takeover I think we'll still remain much closer to (or in) League 1 than the Prem for the foreseeable future.
Have a nice day everyone!

Yep, totally mental and not gonna happen. The focus has to be on a responsible rebuild and more cost-cutting.

[thebish]

You read some comments on Twitter, news articles etc, that seem to assume that the people coming in will be not just be saviours but will splash the cash too. I'd be surprised if the cost cutting didn't continue, as we have contracted players on wages we can't afford. Medo, for example, who Lennon has never given a chance to and no-one else wants either. I'd like to bet that whatever the reduced wages are that the likes of Wheater, Pratley and Davies are on, they aren't reduced enough for our current situation. Parachute payments go soon and with them any chance of a quick return to the Prem. Whatever happens with the takeover I think we'll still remain much closer to (or in) League 1 than the Prem for the foreseeable future.
Have a nice day everyone!

stoppit - we're all giddy and you will not stop us being giddy!!

[SmokinFrazier]

You could see why ppotential investors would see us as a great opportunity though. If they did spend big and got us promoted, they'd get back their investment with the new TV deal and, unlike most Championship clubs, we're an established Premier League team and more attractive to an investor than a club without our stadium, training ground and other facilities. Davies has spent a lot on the club but not all of it was wasted, there's plenty been spent on the club that will be attractive to anyone looking to buy him out. I think the problem is that getting to the Premier Leagu is a big, expensive gamble and the Championship is a difficult division to spend your way out of.

[bobo the clown]

^^ Back to being giddy .... & I like it.

ta Smokin'

[thebish]

You could see why ppotential investors would see us as a great opportunity though. If they did spend big and got us promoted, they'd get back their investment with the new TV deal and, unlike most Championship clubs, we're an established Premier League team and more attractive to an investor than a club without our stadium, training ground and other facilities. Davies has spent a lot on the club but not all of it was wasted, there's plenty been spent on the club that will be attractive to anyone looking to buy him out. I think the problem is that getting to the Premier Leagu is a big, expensive gamble and the Championship is a difficult division to spend your way out of.

fortunately we have Lenny - so with the cash, promotion is pretty much a given!

[Worthy4England]

You could see why ppotential investors would see us as a great opportunity though. If they did spend big and got us promoted, they'd get back their investment with the new TV deal and, unlike most Championship clubs, we're an established Premier League team and more attractive to an investor than a club without our stadium, training ground and other facilities. Davies has spent a lot on the club but not all of it was wasted, there's plenty been spent on the club that will be attractive to anyone looking to buy him out. I think the problem is that getting to the Premier Leagu is a big, expensive gamble and the Championship is a difficult division to spend your way out of.

fortunately we have Lenny - so with the cash, promotion is pretty much a given!

Yes, coz he's a tactical God!

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye. You're bound to make money in the premiership. Just ask Eddie.....