Arsenal v Bolton (match thread)

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Post by Lord Kangana » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:44 pm

We're not shit defensively at all. We've got two clean sheets, 1 game with 1 goal conceded and 1 game with 2, Arsenal aside (a game in which we were only 2-1 down with our first choice defence, 3rd choice goalkeeper and 11 men) who will smash several teams out of sight this year.
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Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:45 pm

CAPSLOCK wrote:And beyond
Not if we sell Cahill.

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Post by seanworth » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:55 pm

We are much improved defensively compared to much of last season. We are not up to the task of playing Arsenal with only 10 men though.

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Post by CAPSLOCK » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:12 pm

seanworth wrote:We are much improved defensively compared to much of last season. We are not up to the task of playing Arsenal with only 10 men though.
West Ham ripped us apart at will

We're just waaaaaay too open - Muamba is being asked to do too much

He'll be banned in a month anyway

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Post by CAPSLOCK » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:13 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
CAPSLOCK wrote:And beyond
Not if we sell Cahill.
Speaking of centre backs, what has O'Brien done to move ahead of Ricketts?

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Post by RobbieSavagesLeg » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:19 pm

So is Cahill in suspenders then?

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Post by CAPSLOCK » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:22 pm

RobbieSavagesLeg wrote:So is Cahill in suspenders then?
3 games, if we don't get him off

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Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:29 pm

I think its fairly obvious that we're not that hard to score against. Most games this season we've looked that way, except perhaps Fulham.

Even Southampton caused us big problems.

We're not "tight" by any means.

I think it stems partly from the system, but more due to the personnel. Few teams are playing without two out and out dominating primarily tackling midfield players in the centre of midfield. We have Muamba. And thats it.

Neither of our centre halves are solid "thou shalt not pass defenders" either in attitude or capability. And our fullbacks whilst "honest" struggle at times, though to be fair to both I think with a more solid team around them they'd be ok.

Generally I don't think we're a resilient team. Compare us to previous teams with Bergsson in or Faye Or Ngotty we lack dominant players defensively right through the team.

I think the problem will be solved when we get the money for Cahill and can rebuild those areas a bit.

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Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:50 pm

Sometimes I think we like nowt better than an argument.

Intriguing line-up. Well, intriguing in that OC seems to have his preferred XI and will apparently stand by them, even if it means playing them in different positions. Intriguing to watch when we weren't in possession (which was very often) – Elmo and KD played as ersatz wide midfielders, but so deep they were practically full-backs, while Robbo and Steiner tucked it to become auxiliary centre-backs. It wasn't amazingly different to the sort of tactics Megson tried at Goodison a couple of seasons ago, with AOB at "right-back" and Steiner "right midfield" but effectively moving backwards to protect the goal. That one didn't work either.

Even the office Arse-gob acknowledges that Atwell was wrong to send Cahill off and not to have awarded the free-kick on LCY just beforehand. But then, we (players, fans, manager) were wrong to connect the two incidents. Cahill's tackle was foolish, amateurish and suspiciously petulant. He's appealing it but it won't work. Meanwhile, any thoughts that Atwell's a homer must be put into the context of that rather shocking Robinson tackle on Diaby. Yes, I know Diaby deserves no sympathy - ask Campo's ankle, etc - but it was again a foolish, amateurish tackle.

It's a pity, if not a surprise, that we fell apart after the red card. Before that, I don't think we played terribly. Assailing Bogdàn – or Bodgàn, as he must have been delighted to find he'd been inadvertently renamed – is cretinous; he acquitted himself very well indeed and helped keep the score down, particularly when his alleged protectors were giving Arshavin the ball and half the field.

Some figures:
  • * Arsenal have now won nine straight games against us.
    * Before the game, no team had had more shots on target this season than Arsenal (no reason to suspect that's now changed).
    * In 16 games against Arsenal Kevin Davies has had nine yellow cards, more than against any other team, and has scored only one goal.
    * Arsenal completed 463 passes; we completed 167.
    * Under Owen Coyle, Bolton have played 14 away league games, won three (Stoke and two West Hams), drawn one and lost 10.

It's not a disaster. Although I'm fully in agreement with Tombwfc that we Bolton fans do like to lower our expectations - meekly accepting a home draw with Fulham, etc - I do think that in most cases we will lose games like this, and shouldn't burn down the house about it. That said, I am slightly worried by the lack of success and (to an extent) flexibility on the road under Coyle. Choosing a "4-4-2" line-up and simply asking the forwards to track back a bit doesn't make sense; we were still dreadfully outnumbered in the middle of the park, as widely predicted.

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Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:15 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:Sometimes I think we like nowt better than an argument.

Intriguing line-up. Well, intriguing in that OC seems to have his preferred XI and will apparently stand by them, even if it means playing them in different positions. Intriguing to watch when we weren't in possession (which was very often) – Elmo and KD played as ersatz wide midfielders, but so deep they were practically full-backs, while Robbo and Steiner tucked it to become auxiliary centre-backs. It wasn't amazingly different to the sort of tactics Megson tried at Goodison a couple of seasons ago, with AOB at "right-back" and Steiner "right midfield" but effectively moving backwards to protect the goal. That one didn't work either.

Even the office Arse-gob acknowledges that Atwell was wrong to send Cahill off and not to have awarded the free-kick on LCY just beforehand. But then, we (players, fans, manager) were wrong to connect the two incidents. Cahill's tackle was foolish, amateurish and suspiciously petulant. He's appealing it but it won't work. Meanwhile, any thoughts that Atwell's a homer must be put into the context of that rather shocking Robinson tackle on Diaby. Yes, I know Diaby deserves no sympathy - ask Campo's ankle, etc - but it was again a foolish, amateurish tackle.

It's a pity, if not a surprise, that we fell apart after the red card. Before that, I don't think we played terribly. Assailing Bogdàn – or Bodgàn, as he must have been delighted to find he'd been inadvertently renamed – is cretinous; he acquitted himself very well indeed and helped keep the score down, particularly when his alleged protectors were giving Arshavin the ball and half the field.

Some figures:
  • * Arsenal have now won nine straight games against us.
    * Before the game, no team had had more shots on target this season than Arsenal (no reason to suspect that's now changed).
    * In 16 games against Arsenal Kevin Davies has had nine yellow cards, more than against any other team, and has scored only one goal.
    * Arsenal completed 463 passes; we completed 167.
    * Under Owen Coyle, Bolton have played 14 away league games, won three (Stoke and two West Hams), drawn one and lost 10.

It's not a disaster. Although I'm fully in agreement with Tombwfc that we Bolton fans do like to lower our expectations - meekly accepting a home draw with Fulham, etc - I do think that in most cases we will lose games like this, and shouldn't burn down the house about it. That said, I am slightly worried by the lack of success and (to an extent) flexibility on the road under Coyle. Choosing a "4-4-2" line-up and simply asking the forwards to track back a bit doesn't make sense; we were still dreadfully outnumbered in the middle of the park, as widely predicted.
I agree with a lot of that DSB. And before the game started I felt he'd picked the wrong team and said so on here.

However, I'm not sure what he could do to change it.

Mark Davies wouldn't stiffen us up significantly and he seems to be next in line. We're lacking a genuine partner to Muamba for games like this.

I still maintain that defensively as a whole team we're poor. I don't think any amount of coaching will change that as I don't think we have the right blend of players to do better.

I suppose Coyle had a problem on Saturday in terms of if he wanted to drop a striker he'd have to drop one of them who were both in form before the break. Like I say bringning in Mark Davies for Elmander would have changed little IMO.

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Post by ohjimmyjimmy » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:29 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:Sometimes I think we like nowt better than an argument.

Intriguing line-up. Well, intriguing in that OC seems to have his preferred XI and will apparently stand by them, even if it means playing them in different positions. Intriguing to watch when we weren't in possession (which was very often) – Elmo and KD played as ersatz wide midfielders, but so deep they were practically full-backs, while Robbo and Steiner tucked it to become auxiliary centre-backs. It wasn't amazingly different to the sort of tactics Megson tried at Goodison a couple of seasons ago, with AOB at "right-back" and Steiner "right midfield" but effectively moving backwards to protect the goal. That one didn't work either.

Even the office Arse-gob acknowledges that Atwell was wrong to send Cahill off and not to have awarded the free-kick on LCY just beforehand. But then, we (players, fans, manager) were wrong to connect the two incidents. Cahill's tackle was foolish, amateurish and suspiciously petulant. He's appealing it but it won't work. Meanwhile, any thoughts that Atwell's a homer must be put into the context of that rather shocking Robinson tackle on Diaby. Yes, I know Diaby deserves no sympathy - ask Campo's ankle, etc - but it was again a foolish, amateurish tackle.

It's a pity, if not a surprise, that we fell apart after the red card. Before that, I don't think we played terribly. Assailing Bogdàn – or Bodgàn, as he must have been delighted to find he'd been inadvertently renamed – is cretinous; he acquitted himself very well indeed and helped keep the score down, particularly when his alleged protectors were giving Arshavin the ball and half the field.

Some figures:
  • * Arsenal have now won nine straight games against us.
    * Before the game, no team had had more shots on target this season than Arsenal (no reason to suspect that's now changed).
    * In 16 games against Arsenal Kevin Davies has had nine yellow cards, more than against any other team, and has scored only one goal.
    * Arsenal completed 463 passes; we completed 167.
    * Under Owen Coyle, Bolton have played 14 away league games, won three (Stoke and two West Hams), drawn one and lost 10.

It's not a disaster. Although I'm fully in agreement with Tombwfc that we Bolton fans do like to lower our expectations - meekly accepting a home draw with Fulham, etc - I do think that in most cases we will lose games like this, and shouldn't burn down the house about it. That said, I am slightly worried by the lack of success and (to an extent) flexibility on the road under Coyle. Choosing a "4-4-2" line-up and simply asking the forwards to track back a bit doesn't make sense; we were still dreadfully outnumbered in the middle of the park, as widely predicted.
I agree with a lot of that DSB. And before the game started I felt he'd picked the wrong team and said so on here.

However, I'm not sure what he could do to change it.

Mark Davies wouldn't stiffen us up significantly and he seems to be next in line. We're lacking a genuine partner to Muamba for games like this.

I still maintain that defensively as a whole team we're poor. I don't think any amount of coaching will change that as I don't think we have the right blend of players to do better.

I suppose Coyle had a problem on Saturday in terms of if he wanted to drop a striker he'd have to drop one of them who were both in form before the break. Like I say bringning in Mark Davies for Elmander would have changed little IMO.
i totally agree with this, and don't see how we can improve on the Arsenal result in the Villa game.

We're just not set up to frustrate mid to upper table opponents away from home anymore, occasionally we may be able to do so for an hour, but there's not very often these days an away game where it seems like we're comfortably holding the opposition.


Its not a complaint from me, this is just how we are now, i recognise this and don't get too upset at 4-1 to Arsenal.

The circumstances were frustrating, but we're used to adversity and when we do win away from home these days its usually in spite of such adversity. What we need to do is make sure we don't letit affect us as a unit, as a club. We've had a decent start, but now we've got a tough month where we may just have to accept being 16th / lower for a time until a more balanced run of games comes up.

What makes it worse though is there's always once whingeing gooner who has to come on here and shout the odds :roll:

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Post by Tombwfc » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:32 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:Sometimes I think we like nowt better than an argument.

Intriguing line-up. Well, intriguing in that OC seems to have his preferred XI and will apparently stand by them, even if it means playing them in different positions. Intriguing to watch when we weren't in possession (which was very often) – Elmo and KD played as ersatz wide midfielders, but so deep they were practically full-backs, while Robbo and Steiner tucked it to become auxiliary centre-backs. It wasn't amazingly different to the sort of tactics Megson tried at Goodison a couple of seasons ago, with AOB at "right-back" and Steiner "right midfield" but effectively moving backwards to protect the goal. That one didn't work either.

Even the office Arse-gob acknowledges that Atwell was wrong to send Cahill off and not to have awarded the free-kick on LCY just beforehand. But then, we (players, fans, manager) were wrong to connect the two incidents. Cahill's tackle was foolish, amateurish and suspiciously petulant. He's appealing it but it won't work. Meanwhile, any thoughts that Atwell's a homer must be put into the context of that rather shocking Robinson tackle on Diaby. Yes, I know Diaby deserves no sympathy - ask Campo's ankle, etc - but it was again a foolish, amateurish tackle.

It's a pity, if not a surprise, that we fell apart after the red card. Before that, I don't think we played terribly. Assailing Bogdàn – or Bodgàn, as he must have been delighted to find he'd been inadvertently renamed – is cretinous; he acquitted himself very well indeed and helped keep the score down, particularly when his alleged protectors were giving Arshavin the ball and half the field.

Some figures:
  • * Arsenal have now won nine straight games against us.
    * Before the game, no team had had more shots on target this season than Arsenal (no reason to suspect that's now changed).
    * In 16 games against Arsenal Kevin Davies has had nine yellow cards, more than against any other team, and has scored only one goal.
    * Arsenal completed 463 passes; we completed 167.
    * Under Owen Coyle, Bolton have played 14 away league games, won three (Stoke and two West Hams), drawn one and lost 10.

It's not a disaster. Although I'm fully in agreement with Tombwfc that we Bolton fans do like to lower our expectations - meekly accepting a home draw with Fulham, etc - I do think that in most cases we will lose games like this, and shouldn't burn down the house about it. That said, I am slightly worried by the lack of success and (to an extent) flexibility on the road under Coyle. Choosing a "4-4-2" line-up and simply asking the forwards to track back a bit doesn't make sense; we were still dreadfully outnumbered in the middle of the park, as widely predicted.
I agree with a lot of that DSB. And before the game started I felt he'd picked the wrong team and said so on here.

However, I'm not sure what he could do to change it.

Mark Davies wouldn't stiffen us up significantly and he seems to be next in line. We're lacking a genuine partner to Muamba for games like this.

I still maintain that defensively as a whole team we're poor. I don't think any amount of coaching will change that as I don't think we have the right blend of players to do better.

I suppose Coyle had a problem on Saturday in terms of if he wanted to drop a striker he'd have to drop one of them who were both in form before the break. Like I say bringning in Mark Davies for Elmander would have changed little IMO.
It'd be interesting to see how Coyle would've used Sean Davis had he been fit.

I know it's always the case that the person who's out of the side is the one who'd supposedly improve us the most, but I certainly think we'd benefit from having an experienced Premier League central midfielder in the squad. Muamba is the only one with over 50 Premier League appearances, and he's 22 years old. It shows.

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Post by thebish » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:46 pm

RobbieSavagesLeg wrote:Blimey,

We've had one bad result, away, against a top four side, where referees judgments didn't go our way again, and it's all doom and gloom on here!

no it's not - don't be ridiculous.

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Post by boltonboris » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:56 pm

CAPSLOCK wrote:
RobbieSavagesLeg wrote:So is Cahill in suspenders then?
3 games, if we don't get him off
We're appealing, so it's 4 or none
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Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:03 pm

Tombwfc wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:Sometimes I think we like nowt better than an argument.

Intriguing line-up. Well, intriguing in that OC seems to have his preferred XI and will apparently stand by them, even if it means playing them in different positions. Intriguing to watch when we weren't in possession (which was very often) – Elmo and KD played as ersatz wide midfielders, but so deep they were practically full-backs, while Robbo and Steiner tucked it to become auxiliary centre-backs. It wasn't amazingly different to the sort of tactics Megson tried at Goodison a couple of seasons ago, with AOB at "right-back" and Steiner "right midfield" but effectively moving backwards to protect the goal. That one didn't work either.

Even the office Arse-gob acknowledges that Atwell was wrong to send Cahill off and not to have awarded the free-kick on LCY just beforehand. But then, we (players, fans, manager) were wrong to connect the two incidents. Cahill's tackle was foolish, amateurish and suspiciously petulant. He's appealing it but it won't work. Meanwhile, any thoughts that Atwell's a homer must be put into the context of that rather shocking Robinson tackle on Diaby. Yes, I know Diaby deserves no sympathy - ask Campo's ankle, etc - but it was again a foolish, amateurish tackle.

It's a pity, if not a surprise, that we fell apart after the red card. Before that, I don't think we played terribly. Assailing Bogdàn – or Bodgàn, as he must have been delighted to find he'd been inadvertently renamed – is cretinous; he acquitted himself very well indeed and helped keep the score down, particularly when his alleged protectors were giving Arshavin the ball and half the field.

Some figures:
  • * Arsenal have now won nine straight games against us.
    * Before the game, no team had had more shots on target this season than Arsenal (no reason to suspect that's now changed).
    * In 16 games against Arsenal Kevin Davies has had nine yellow cards, more than against any other team, and has scored only one goal.
    * Arsenal completed 463 passes; we completed 167.
    * Under Owen Coyle, Bolton have played 14 away league games, won three (Stoke and two West Hams), drawn one and lost 10.

It's not a disaster. Although I'm fully in agreement with Tombwfc that we Bolton fans do like to lower our expectations - meekly accepting a home draw with Fulham, etc - I do think that in most cases we will lose games like this, and shouldn't burn down the house about it. That said, I am slightly worried by the lack of success and (to an extent) flexibility on the road under Coyle. Choosing a "4-4-2" line-up and simply asking the forwards to track back a bit doesn't make sense; we were still dreadfully outnumbered in the middle of the park, as widely predicted.
I agree with a lot of that DSB. And before the game started I felt he'd picked the wrong team and said so on here.

However, I'm not sure what he could do to change it.

Mark Davies wouldn't stiffen us up significantly and he seems to be next in line. We're lacking a genuine partner to Muamba for games like this.

I still maintain that defensively as a whole team we're poor. I don't think any amount of coaching will change that as I don't think we have the right blend of players to do better.

I suppose Coyle had a problem on Saturday in terms of if he wanted to drop a striker he'd have to drop one of them who were both in form before the break. Like I say bringning in Mark Davies for Elmander would have changed little IMO.
It'd be interesting to see how Coyle would've used Sean Davis had he been fit.

I know it's always the case that the person who's out of the side is the one who'd supposedly improve us the most, but I certainly think we'd benefit from having an experienced Premier League central midfielder in the squad. Muamba is the only one with over 50 Premier League appearances, and he's 22 years old. It shows.
I think Sean Davis is a big miss. But he wasn't fit in pre-season and it was obvious after a few games he was miles off the pace.

We haven't got a team capable of physically dominating the opposition anymore. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

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Post by Prufrock » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:04 pm

boltonboris wrote:
CAPSLOCK wrote:
RobbieSavagesLeg wrote:So is Cahill in suspenders then?
3 games, if we don't get him off
We're appealing, so it's 4 or none
Extra game is optional, could still be three...oh wait we aren't a member of the big four, or play in London. Four it is. See Javier Mascherano/Jeremie Aliadiere and Frank Lampard.
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Post by thebish » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:07 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
We haven't got a team capable of physically dominating the opposition anymore. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
how many ways actually are there to skin a cat?

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Post by CAPSLOCK » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:10 pm

boltonboris wrote:
CAPSLOCK wrote:
RobbieSavagesLeg wrote:So is Cahill in suspenders then?
3 games, if we don't get him off
We're appealing, so it's 4 or none
No so

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Post by Gary the Enfield » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:12 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
We haven't got a team capable of physically dominating the opposition anymore. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
how many ways actually are there to skin a cat?
http://popechuck.tripod.com/nonpope/skinacat.html

Number 5 should appeal. :wink:

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Post by thebish » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:13 pm

Gary the Enfield wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
We haven't got a team capable of physically dominating the opposition anymore. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
how many ways actually are there to skin a cat?
http://popechuck.tripod.com/nonpope/skinacat.html

Number 5 should appeal. :wink:
it doesn't work - i tried it! ;-)

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