Freedman out!

[Jugs]

Sorry

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Sorry

No you're not

[EverSoYouri]

There is a very real possibility we would have gone down had we not got Sturridge that season. We were 6 points above the drop zone when Sturridge scored a last minute winner on his debut to beat Wolves 1-0, and we were in something of a malaise. The purple patch of November, when Elmander scored a bagful of goals, had become something of a distant memory and we were really struggling.

The signing of Sturridge was worse for Elmander and, perhaps, you could argue, somehow worse for us in the long-term (Elmander wouldn't sign a new contract after playing out of position for so long, Coyle spent the whole summer dreaming he could resign Sturridge, forgoing other targets); but we were definitely better off with him than without him for those few months he was here.

You may well be right. It's certainly the case that Coyle was foolish to try to play the same way once Elmander and Sturridge had gone (that system relied on the opposition being scared of the damage we might do to them - not a factor when you have N'Gog).

In any case, my point was just an illustration of what the right manager with the right insight and attitude can get out of a player. i.e. an illustration of one of several ways in which DF seems to fall short.

[Worthy4England]

Mind you, when Eagles and Moritz are the scope of your dreams it's saying something.

Yep.

I just don't think we have a manager capable of getting the best out of what we've got.

I think that's increasingly clear. A better man-manager could get this lot at least into mid-table, and I'd settle for that this season.

I know Coyle proved ridiculously inflexible and that Elmander is generally hated by the fans but it's worth remembering how Coyle got the best from Elmander after Megson had utterly alienated him. (btw this is not my 'Bring Coyle Back' campaign - just illustrating how much impact a manager can have on existing squad players).

Before Coyle alienated Elmander by moving him to the wing/midfield to accommodate a young loan signing after his best spell for the club. As good as Sturridge was in terms of goals, I think in some ways we were worse for having him. I'll probably get stick for that last sentence, but from memory we were doing reasonably ok and the team as a whole seem to be a bit shitter (probably because Elmander played midfield/wing) once we started to rely on Sturridge to save the day.

There is a very real possibility we would have gone down had we not got Sturridge that season. We were 6 points above the drop zone when Sturridge scored a last minute winner on his debut to beat Wolves 1-0, and we were in something of a malaise. The purple patch of November, when Elmander scored a bagful of goals, had become something of a distant memory and we were really struggling.

The signing of Sturridge was worse for Elmander and, perhaps, you could argue, somehow worse for us in the long-term (Elmander wouldn't sign a new contract after playing out of position for so long, Coyle spent the whole summer dreaming he could resign Sturridge, forgoing other targets); but we were definitely better off with him than without him for those few months he was here.

Not convinced. We got less points per game with Sturridge than without. The fact that he got most of the goals makes it look like we'd have sunk without him. The fact the rest of the team got bugger all goals after his signing masks what went on.

I'm glad I saw Sturridge, but don't think it helped us very much.

[Bruce Rioja]

so Mears being blamed and banished to the reserves after 1 game (blackburn away) and dougie telling the press that mears wasn't his idea of a RB and then getting in a RB to play who was shitter than mears . .. no probably not down to dougie

only in that weird conspiracy world where absolutely everything has to be dougie's fault for fear of being labelled a dougie-ite...

From what I could gather, Mears was further banished to the youth team after he said he didn't want to go out on loan (to Millwall?)

[Jugs]

Mind you, when Eagles and Moritz are the scope of your dreams it's saying something.

Yep.

I just don't think we have a manager capable of getting the best out of what we've got.

I think that's increasingly clear. A better man-manager could get this lot at least into mid-table, and I'd settle for that this season.

I know Coyle proved ridiculously inflexible and that Elmander is generally hated by the fans but it's worth remembering how Coyle got the best from Elmander after Megson had utterly alienated him. (btw this is not my 'Bring Coyle Back' campaign - just illustrating how much impact a manager can have on existing squad players).

Before Coyle alienated Elmander by moving him to the wing/midfield to accommodate a young loan signing after his best spell for the club. As good as Sturridge was in terms of goals, I think in some ways we were worse for having him. I'll probably get stick for that last sentence, but from memory we were doing reasonably ok and the team as a whole seem to be a bit shitter (probably because Elmander played midfield/wing) once we started to rely on Sturridge to save the day.

There is a very real possibility we would have gone down had we not got Sturridge that season. We were 6 points above the drop zone when Sturridge scored a last minute winner on his debut to beat Wolves 1-0, and we were in something of a malaise. The purple patch of November, when Elmander scored a bagful of goals, had become something of a distant memory and we were really struggling.

The signing of Sturridge was worse for Elmander and, perhaps, you could argue, somehow worse for us in the long-term (Elmander wouldn't sign a new contract after playing out of position for so long, Coyle spent the whole summer dreaming he could resign Sturridge, forgoing other targets); but we were definitely better off with him than without him for those few months he was here.

Not convinced. We got less points per game with Sturridge than without. The fact that he got most of the goals makes it look like we'd have sunk without him. The fact the rest of the team got bugger all goals after his signing masks what went on.

I'm glad I saw Sturridge, but don't think it helped us very much.

Either ingratitude or something else, I don't know what. The fact is, Bolton hadn't won for 6 games before he arrived, the goals had dried up, and his last minute winner against Wolves was a springboard. He lifted us. The rest of the team didn't get bugger all goals, Cahill got a few, as did Klasnic. It wasn't the Sturridge show; he did what he could for us, and he certainly helped us out a lot. Who knows what might have happened had he not arrived, but we were definitely a team bereft of inspiration when he came along.

I honestly haven't come across criticism regarding Sturridge before, and it baffles me a little to see it now. But it seems to be the case that, for whatever reason, Bolton fans don't like players who score goals. Eagles, top scorer in the 2012-13 season is chastised. Moritz, last seasons top scorer, was chastised, with Bolton fans saying he didn't do enough and 'good riddance'. Klasnic, who had a remarkable goals per game ratio, was told he was too lazy and no one cared that he didn't get a new contract. It's hard to know what Bolton fans want from their goal scorers sometimes.

[Bruce Rioja]

Apropos nowt - my mate's brother decided he was going to place a bet on us going down, but changed his mind when he discovered that the best odds he could find were 5 - 1.

[bobo the clown]

so Mears being blamed and banished to the reserves after 1 game (blackburn away) and dougie telling the press that mears wasn't his idea of a RB and then getting in a RB to play who was shitter than mears . .. no probably not down to dougie

only in that weird conspiracy world where absolutely everything has to be dougie's fault for fear of being labelled a dougie-ite...

From what I could gather, Mears was further banished to the youth team after he said he didn't want to go out on loan (to Millwall?)

Which is what I heard too. The same, a window later, with Eagles.

... once that occurred they were toast. Yet we still had to pay them.

Labelled disruptive, that may be the case, or maybe Dougie can't cope with someone disagreeing with his master plan.

How is that not a Dougie action ?

[thebish]

Dreaming doesn't hurt Insane and we all know those are dreams. Just saying look at the feck ups this clown committed as recently as a few months ago.

Mind you, when Eagles and Moritz are the scope of your dreams it's saying something.

aye - dream on if it helps!!

[bobo the clown]

Dreaming doesn't hurt Insane and we all know those are dreams. Just saying look at the feck ups this clown committed as recently as a few months ago.

Mind you, when Eagles and Moritz are the scope of your dreams it's saying something.

aye - dream on if it helps!!

Yeah, well people say I'm a dreamer, but I'm no the only one ...

[Bruce Rioja]

Dreaming doesn't hurt Insane and we all know those are dreams. Just saying look at the feck ups this clown committed as recently as a few months ago.

Mind you, when Eagles and Moritz are the scope of your dreams it's saying something.

aye - dream on if it helps!!

Yeah, well people say I'm a dreamer, but I'm no the only one ...

Above us only everyone bar Fulham and Blackpool.

[SmokinFrazier]

Don't particularly disagree with any of the above. I don't see Eagles or Moritz coming back. So I think we're saying yesterday team selection,, barring any loanees, is about the upper limit of our attacking intent. Sure, we could play Beckford, Mason and Cravies at the same time, but I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting we should. We could start Feeney, either for a DM (or maybe Danns), but there isn't a lot of wriggle room.

When we were talking about 442 last season as being the panacea, it's clearly only part of the picture. It has to have the right people in the right places too, otherwise it's as useless as 451.

Leeds have scored three Championship goals all season, including yesterday but have more points than us, because they were able to keepna clean sheet.

we are truely very poor in all departments.

Absolutely, we need to focus on being hard to beat and stop conceding.

This season is going to be all about grinding out every possible result. Forget pretty football.

But we aren't grinding out results and look far from doing so. That is my biggest disappointment.

There doesn't need to be a huge overhaul for us to change our style of play, nor do we need to build up from the bottom either. A manager who brings the right attitude and has the ability to get the team playing in the way they want could change us into a fluid, attacking and defensively solid unit overnight. Look at how quickly Everton changed their playing style from the negative stuff under Moyes to the fast, attacking play under Martinez.

This season is only about "grinding out results" as long as Freedman says. We're capable of playing good football but the philosophy of management needs to change because right now, Freedman is a dead weight that is holding the team back, not the other way around.

[bobo the clown]

"Smokin' " Smoking.

[thebish]

But we aren't grinding out results and look far from doing so. That is my biggest disappointment.

despite the rather tedious and repetitive set-piece show-downs... I don't think there is much more than the width of a fag-packet between you and SF...

perhaps the only discernible differences are (and these are fairly slim)

1. SF seems to think the squad is still pretty ace (like you did when you slagged Coyle - you are both just taking opposite sides of the precise same argument you both used to repeat when Coyle was manager) - if only the manager was changed - they'd show their full potential. (this would involve SF admitting that Freedman hasn't bought as disastrously badly with his limited funds as some say - but - hey - small potatoes!)
2. You don't share SF's optimism that there is a manager out there who a) would be prepared to take over and b) would do a better job at making the squad we already have play better.
3. You think we have less cash to splash about than SF does.

you both seem to agree that Freedman is doing a poor job at getting the best out of what he is restricted to.

[BWFC_Insane]

But we aren't grinding out results and look far from doing so. That is my biggest disappointment.

despite the rather tedious and repetitive set-piece show-downs... I don't think there is much more than the width of a fag-packet between you and SF...

perhaps the only discernible differences are (and these are fairly slim)

1. SF seems to think the squad is still pretty ace (like you did when you slagged Coyle - you are both just taking opposite sides of the precise same argument you both used to repeat when Coyle was manager) - if only the manager was changed - they'd show their full potential. (this would involve SF admitting that Freedman hasn't bought as disastrously badly with his limited funds as some say - but - hey - small potatoes!)
2. You don't share SF's optimism that there is a manager out there who a) would be prepared to take over and b) would do a better job at making the squad we already have play better.
3. You think we have less cash to splash about than SF does.

you both seem to agree that Freedman is doing a poor job at getting the best out of what he is restricted to.

I think the test of what we should be getting out of this group is when or if a new manager is appointed.

I just think some of the talk about this being a great squad with a team that could just flip a switch with the right manager and play great winning football is ridiculous. Most people pick holes in the players we've got.

I do think we can get better results than we are. But by being organised, defending well and scrapping results out.

Basically what a Pulis or Allardyce would try and do with them. That is the only way forward IMO in the immediate future.

[LeverEnd]

Unless the new manager is shite as well! PG and his next pick, doesn't fill me with confidence.

[BWFC_Insane]

Unless the new manager is shite as well! PG and his next pick, doesn't fill me with confidence.

I think the chance to appoint a really good manager went when we slipped out of the premiership.

People expect miracles. We have gone from a 55M wage bill to signing players because they are 'on league one wage levels'.

No manager is going to come in and wave a wand and fix this.

Whatever happens this is a long slog with probably far more frustration than enjoyment. Just how I see it right now.

We got lucky with Allardyce last time and enough momentum at board level to dig us out.

I don't see either this time.

[thebish]

I do think we can get better results than we are. But by being organised, defending well and scrapping results out.

but - to be clear - you don't think there is a manager out there who could do that and would be willing to replace Dougie?

SF thinks there is..

that's basically the only real difference between you...

[jaffka]

Well seeing as you are wrong, often.

We will be sacking Duggie off, getting any old bloke in and be promoted next year.

[Tombwfc]

To be honest, I think I agree with BWFCI. The squad is painfully short of quality, and is about good enough to finish 14th playing shite football (although this season what we've been playing is some way beyond shite football. The first 20 minutes against Crewe is the worst we've played in my lifetime. We make Megson's Bolton look like Borussia Dortmund). There probably isn't a manager who'll come in and immediately turn us around.

The fact that we've allowed Dougie to waste the final years of our parachute payments to build this squad is the most damning indictment of him and Gartside (who similarly fell for this 'long term planning > results' with OC). I don't see how that's a reason to keep him employed. That he's fecked it so badly it'll take a new man years to rebuild again?