Burnley vs Bolton

[Peter Thompson]

My two pennies...

Lots of disagreement on here, but most on the Coyle out side of things. I think we can all agree that the last 18 months have been unacceptably shit. There have been some extenuating circumstances, but the lions share of it rests with Coyle and his decisions, be it recruitment of players and staff, tactics, training or stubbornness.

I had hoped that through the summer and the early part of the season we would have seen lessons learnt and improvements in our failings of last season. What we have seen in pre-season and yesterday are exactly the same problems and bewildering decisions. If yesterday he thought lets give it one last crack because the standard is lower and it should work where it failed last season, then the guy needs to go now.

It isn't rocket science. We need to get the basics right. We haven't gotten the basics right for over a year. In any other walk of life a manager that consistently gets the basics wrong gets the sack. If anyone thinks that once Stu is back things will improve are very much as deluded as Coyle. Stu and Moo were a great partnership. As good as Stu is, the partnership he had with Moo was greater than the sum of the individual parts. In a 4-4-2 we don't have anyone that would be remotely as effective in a partnership with Stu. We're headed for mid table obscurity at best.

The players have no confidence, direction, leadership or desire. If a manager is not there to provide/instil these things then what purpose does he serve? As much as I hate saggy face, he is an example of what happens when you have a reasonable bunch of players and you instil these things. If you can't instil these things then you better be fecking good at tactics and discipline.

Very good post and very true....

He should have gone with the rest of his staff when we went down, and if we don't beat Derby he should go then - the slate doesn't get wiped clean at the start of the season, its been truly shambolic at BWFC for the past 18 months and no one at the club seems to have any idea how to stop the rot.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

Didnt manage to see the whole horror as was on the road. Just looked at I player highlights. Looked like we started ok conceeded a goal that shouldnt be given and went to pot.There does seem plenty things wrong and little evidence that coyle is learning but it's one game and a difficult opener.I suppose having commited over the summer there is little point bleeting about sackings.I expect the board would be assessing the situation ten games in and if it's not good theyd be seeing what might be available. Even then it may be better the devil known.At least we'd be a reasonable prospect for an upcoming manager.
It is very frustrating to see coyle failing to learn though and if the team looks disinterested it's pretty damning.

[officer_dibble]

This stuff about the goal being offside as well. hard luck stories masking the most woeful performance from a bwfc side this century. did the ball npt change possession 3 times in our own box? surely thats the crime.

[CAPSLOCK]

re the goal

I haven't seen a replay that shows it, but was told yesterday that an angle exists showing Petrov doing his laces down by the corner flag

It'd be unforgiveable if true

[Peter Thompson]

The worrying thing for me is that yet again there is still a lack of energy & passion and they look unfit compared to the opposition. They play like 11 complete strangers who haven't trained or played together before, and they look like they have absolutely no idea what shape or tactics they should be playing - like a team very poorly coached with no plan A never mind a plan B.

No leadership, team spirit or organisation - no different to last season !

Coyle came in with a reputation as a motivator, getting the best out of lesser players he was never a tactician (the Burnley fans told us about this, as well as never having a plan B). But for the past 18 months he's lost the ability to motivate, the players don't appear to listen to him and look generally disinterested & disorganised - he doesn't seem to have any ability to influence anything on the pitch.

[BWFC_Insane]

The worrying thing for me is that yet again there is still a lack of energy & passion and they look unfit compared to the opposition. They play like 11 complete strangers who haven't trained or played together before, and they look like they have absolutely no idea what shape or tactics they should be playing - like a team very poorly coached with no plan A never mind a plan B.

No leadership, team spirit or organisation - no different to last season !

Coyle came in with a reputation as a motivator, getting the best out of lesser players he was never a tactician (the Burnley fans told us about this, as well as never having a plan B). But for the past 18 months he's lost the ability to motivate, the players don't appear to listen to him and look generally disinterested & disorganised - he doesn't seem to have any ability to influence anything on the pitch.

Yep. If those players had shown some fight and energy and brightness wed have got a result yesterday. Cos for 15-20 minutes Burnley were scared by Petrov, LCY etc, until they realised we were as limp as an octogenarians willy staring at a copy of hustler.

As much as the system and selections and tactics are not right, the worst thing is that none of the players are playing with any brightness or as you say passion.

I fear that he has completely lost the players respect and belief!

[Peter Thompson]

I fear that he has completely lost the players respect and belief!

Well he's certainly lost the fans IMO

[Wandering Willy]

I'll tell you what organisation is ;

A training regime which gets your players fit.

Having a formation which is fit for purpose.

Not selecting players who aren't up to it.

No argument with the above - indeed, I have pointed out that Coyle is failing at 2 of them on a regular basis.

A coaching regime which has your players know what they are doing (dead ball's are the easiest example).

A defence arranged to they know who needs to be where, keeps it simple, are sturdy and hard to get past.

The above 2 statements are true but what is being argued by some on here is that because we are not seeing this on the pitch on a consistent basis then it is 100% Coyle's fault.

I'm fairly sure that professional footballers know where they need to be on set pieces. I am also fairly sure defenders know where they should be and that there job is to tackle and be difficult to get past. When they don't do this they will have bad games. The idea that because they play crap and don't do the basics is because Coyle doesn't tell them to tackle or where to stand for a corner is bollocks. At some point what happens on the pitch becomes the responsibilty of the players also.

There clearly faults on the pitch and the sidelines (which I have pointed out myself) but I do take issue with the idea that if the players do not exercise the basics on the pitch then that is because Coyle can't "organise" them.

"Organise" sounds good in an American corporate techno babble bullshit kind of way but it's being used on here as a catch all to blame everything on one man.

[malcd1]

re the goal

I haven't seen a replay that shows it, but was told yesterday that an angle exists showing Petrov doing his laces down by the corner flag

It'd be unforgiveable if true

There is no TV footage of Petrov playing the Burnley player on-side. I watched the stream and at half time the panel were presuming that Petrov may have been slow getting out. Inconclusive either way and doesn't hide the fact we are not good enough.

[BL3]

I expect the board would be assessing the situation ten games in and if it's not good theyd be seeing what might be available.

Good job that Reading didn't do that last season. They had a total of ten points from the first ten games...

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll tell you what organisation is ;

A training regime which gets your players fit.

Having a formation which is fit for purpose.

Not selecting players who aren't up to it.

No argument with the above - indeed, I have pointed out that Coyle is failing at 2 of them on a regular basis.

A coaching regime which has your players know what they are doing (dead ball's are the easiest example).

A defence arranged to they know who needs to be where, keeps it simple, are sturdy and hard to get past.

The above 2 statements are true but what is being argued by some on here is that because we are not seeing this on the pitch on a consistent basis then it is 100% Coyle's fault.

I'm fairly sure that professional footballers know where they need to be on set pieces. I am also fairly sure defenders know where they should be and that there job is to tackle and be difficult to get past. When they don't do this they will have bad games. The idea that because they play crap and don't do the basics is because Coyle doesn't tell them to tackle or where to stand for a corner is bollocks. At some point what happens on the pitch becomes the responsibilty of the players also.

There clearly faults on the pitch and the sidelines (which I have pointed out myself) but I do take issue with the idea that if the players do not exercise the basics on the pitch then that is because Coyle can't "organise" them.

"Organise" sounds good in an American corporate techno babble bullshit kind of way but it's being used on here as a catch all to blame everything on one man.

The manager has the 'squad' he wanted in his own words.

He has picked the team. Planned the pre-season and appointed the coaching staff.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to whose fault it is?

[CAPSLOCK]

I expect the board would be assessing the situation ten games in and if it's not good theyd be seeing what might be available.

Good job that Reading didn't do that last season. They had a total of ten points from the first ten games...

If the previous 18 months had mirrored ours, I could see the relevance of your post

[BWFC_Insane]

I expect the board would be assessing the situation ten games in and if it's not good theyd be seeing what might be available.

Good job that Reading didn't do that last season. They had a total of ten points from the first ten games...

Coyles performances have been terrible for 18 months. He's been stealing a living from us in that time whilst dragging the club further and further down. He's had more chances here than he'd get at any other club.

But yeah let's give him more chances, cos its not like the glaring problems have been apparent for the last 4 transfer windows and still no fix is in sight.

[bobo the clown]

The players are the ones on the pitch .... players he's signed mostly, so they should be up for the job, & the man ... and yes, it's the players making the poor pass, poor tackle etc.

But WHERE they are arranged to be is down to the coaching. Where they are supposed to pass is also. At my & your level football was mostly instinct. Just getting & getting rid of the v=ball was all we could expect. But at this level we're talking very capable people. So when we go out with no tackler in midfield it's HIS fault. When we don't protect the defence that's HIS fault. When we are toothless up front, that's HIS fault.

If we'd hit the woodwork a couple of times, or had a good goal mistakenly scratched off, or met a keeper playing out of his skin, or wwere playing Barcelona .... that's out of our hands. If a player missed a couple of sitters, it's hardly the manager'd fault. But we didn't/weren't.

It's largely down to HIS tactics, HIS coaching, HIS fitness (ha) regime, his 'organisation.

[truewhite15]

I'll tell you what organisation is ;

A training regime which gets your players fit.

Having a formation which is fit for purpose.

Not selecting players who aren't up to it.

No argument with the above - indeed, I have pointed out that Coyle is failing at 2 of them on a regular basis.

A coaching regime which has your players know what they are doing (dead ball's are the easiest example).

A defence arranged to they know who needs to be where, keeps it simple, are sturdy and hard to get past.

The above 2 statements are true but what is being argued by some on here is that because we are not seeing this on the pitch on a consistent basis then it is 100% Coyle's fault.

I'm fairly sure that professional footballers know where they need to be on set pieces. I am also fairly sure defenders know where they should be and that there job is to tackle and be difficult to get past. When they don't do this they will have bad games. The idea that because they play crap and don't do the basics is because Coyle doesn't tell them to tackle or where to stand for a corner is bollocks. At some point what happens on the pitch becomes the responsibilty of the players also.

There clearly faults on the pitch and the sidelines (which I have pointed out myself) but I do take issue with the idea that if the players do not exercise the basics on the pitch then that is because Coyle can't "organise" them.

"Organise" sounds good in an American corporate techno babble bullshit kind of way but it's being used on here as a catch all to blame everything on one man.

Yes, professionals should know where they should be. But these players don't seem to. Quite apart from the fact that Coyle signed the vast majority of them, or if they're that shit, failed to sign replacements - if they're not performing their job properly, then it comes down to the manager to go through the drills again, and again, and again, until they do it right. Clearly, this hasn't happened. And that IS Coyle's fault.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

I expect the board would be assessing the situation ten games in and if it's not good theyd be seeing what might be available.

Good job that Reading didn't do that last season. They had a total of ten points from the first ten games...

It's not really a strong arguement is it? How often does a team turna season round like that compared to continuing to struggle? They'd done OK previously

The problem here is that the team appear to be going backwards and have been doing so for 18 months.Ten games strikes me as quite generous in the circumstances. People need some signs of improvement and at least a feeling that efforts are being made. At present nothing seems to be getting better.Players are unfit lacking confidence and the team looks poorly set up.If it looks the same ten games in I think people would be looking for a change otherwise we could potentially have a rather expensive 1st division squad next year.

It's not impossible for our "premier league" squad to go down again if they have no organisation confidence or belief.

I know people may say its the players but end of the day who is responsible for the team and performances?

[thebish]

It's not impossible for our "premier league" squad to go down again if they have no organisation confidence or belief.

to be fair - it's only really BWFCi who believes we have a thoroughly premier league squad...

[BWFC_Insane]

It's not impossible for our "premier league" squad to go down again if they have no organisation confidence or belief.

to be fair - it's only really BWFCi who believes we have a thoroughly premier league squad...

Coyle thinks that too!

[truewhite15]

It's not impossible for our "premier league" squad to go down again if they have no organisation confidence or belief.

to be fair - it's only really BWFCi who believes we have a thoroughly premier league squad...

Actually, I'm of the opinion that, given proper management, we would have stayed up easily last year. Equally, I'm of the opinion that, given proper management, we can be promoted easily this year. Therefore, I'm of the opinion that, given proper management, we are Premier League quality.

[Bruce Rioja]

Cannon-ball goal kicks and balls banged randomly and much of the time with not much accuracy into the opposition half, hopefully to one man wandering about on his own, just will not work. How many decent teams do it? Did Bogdan throw the ball to a Bolton player once today? If he did I must have missed it. We need football, not hoof ball.

A slight aside, and I wouldn't want to see him at our place, but did any of you see Paddy Kenny's ball out to the winger yesterday for him to cross it in for Becchio's goal? Absolutely outstanding. From Leeds' 'keeper to the back of the Wolves net in about eight seconds. Nowt wrong with going long when there's a plan attached.