Has Coyle's footballing "vision" been diluted or confused?

[BWFC_Insane]

First let me start of this is NOT another thread about bashing Coyle. People know my feelings on him, no need to repeat them here and that is not my intention.

I'm interested in what has happened to the Coyle "vision" that was laid out when he first came in.

Namely....

"Good football, pass and move style, wingers, Wenger is my rolemodel, want to move towards the style Arsenal play etc etc...."

Now he explained that we couldn't make a big switch straight away as he had the players that were available and didn't have big scope to change it. He brought Wilshere in though, and he seemed to spark some decent stuff from us, even Weiss at times.

Following summer he brought Alonso, Rodrigo, Petrov in and undoubtedly there as a trend he was buying people who could play the more technical style of football he seemed to want. That season with Holden as a pivot we were very good for a period, again though a lot of our game revolved around Davies and Elmander up front and using them often as targets for a direct way of playing.

But still we lacked a genuine ball playing midfield player, easier said than done and Coyle still was changing things slowly. Ok Stoke thumped us at Wembley and we had a poor finish to the season, but you expected Coyle to start to change things more aggresively.

We then were linked that summer with Thiago Alcantara, Jeffren etc more players (who whether they were again good enough or the best thing) pointed to our desire to play football and be less and less reliant on the long ball to Davies , something it has been obvious for a while we needed to do, if for no other reason than Davies simply can't keep going forever.

In the end we didn't bring in that sort of player and had instead, Pratley and NRC coming into midfield. Not exactly the ideal candidates to move to a more "cultured game". Previous to that his "Cahill replacement" Wheater, again did not look like someone bought with short passing from the back in mind.

That season brought about the first time that Davies was left out of the side routinely for a period at least. NGog came in, but again like Davies, was used as a target man, often holding the ball up to bring the midfield into the game. It was a little different but still fairly direct. What seemed to be different was that we put the ball in to the box slightly less, and not so early and we didn't seem as "physical" from set pieces. NGog was clearly better on the ground than Davies, but the end result was not so different.

Now if we fast forwards to this season, Coyle seems to have abandoned the footballing philosophy entirely at times, with long balls hit to Davies seemingly to plan in most games. He's signed Andrews and Spearing, neither of whom are "midfield ball players" and again at a lower level our plan does not seem to involve keeping the ball, or playing through midfield very much.

What has happened to the ideas Coyle brought to the club to change the way we played. At first the plan seemed clear. Now it seems like somewhere along the line he has decided it not to be possible.

Pressure of results? Philosophical change in the manager? Not getting the players he wanted two summers ago? Or do as has been rumoured some of our players have more influence than it appears at first glance?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Short answer is he doesn't know how. Pretty ideas, no real substance.

[Athers]

Good post

It does feel now that there is more a confusion of what the philosophy of this team is, rather than the beneficial 'mixing it up' that BWFC have always done when at their best over the last 10 years. It's almost like the midfielders are accepting that they probably don't need to show for the ball as half the time it's going up to Davo anyway... Except with that behaviour it soon becomes more than half the time.

[TANGODANCER]

Not a defence, but it's worth remembering there's another team on the field. If our own persist in defending badly and whacking panic balls forward, the passing system will never work. There always seems to be a the panic/live hand-greanade element present in our defence and midfield. At times we play some decent stuff, then a break sets it all back. All our players need a bit more confidence in their own ability with the ball. Only Rickets, and at times Knight, look to pass the ball back into play rather than hoof it. Passing it back to Bogdan when he's being challenged gives him little option unless somebody wants the ball. The forwards can only respond to what's fed to them, and far too often that's ariel missiles.It might change with Spearing in there as ball-winner but it needs to happen quickly, yesterday in fact.

[BWFC_Insane]

See I wonder if losing 5-0 at Wembley to Pulis' physically drilled, essentially direct side changed how Coyle viewed the game?

Certainly he seemed to want "battlers" that summer more than we'd seen before.

I also note that he's stopped talking about "his style of play" which was basically mentioned by him in every interview for his first year here.

Now he simply refers to "high tempo football" if at all. And that conjours more Megson's approach than what Coyle seemingly brought initially.

I'm not suggesting everything is wrong because we're not playing "tippy tappy" stuff. Far from it, my fear initially with Coyle was that he'd turn us into a good side to watch with a soft core.

I just feel we went someway down the road to change, but have since done a complete U-Turn and abandoned any plans to do so and reverted to a style where we seem betwixt and between......

[bobo the clown]

See I wonder if losing 5-0 at Wembley to Pulis' physically drilled, essentially direct side changed how Coyle viewed the game?

Not to my mind. I just think that game utterly unnerved him & he's been like a rabbit in headlights ever since.

It's not difficult to say "I'm going to alter some of my style" if that's the case. I just don't think he has a style now.

[Worthy4England]

Dunno, but Stoke's demolition of us in the semi, was no more based on physicality, than some of the bad rep we used to get, when people didn't spot we had players like Djorkaeff, JJ etc. They were by far a better footballing team than us that day, from front to back.

I think he's bought players that generally try to match his ethos, but would only ever be able to achieve it if they were retaining high possession percentage. Which we don't. So confused yes. Poor buys to support his preferred style yes. Unable to execute on that vision, because what he's bought isn't capable of delivering on it, yes. All in all, a complete feck up.

[Gravedigger]

He, Coyle, has had all summer to rethink his future tactics. New, moderately new, players coming in to change any tactics he now thinks are obsolete. He does seem to have lost that edge of excitement he had when he first came and doesn't really have the ability to bounce back so he is probably less confident than the players. I can't for the life of me believe that he hasn't been approached by other players as to the tactics employed. I can't see where the bottom is or how far we have to sink before someone upstairs realises it isn't working. The excuses of players injured, not performing, soft goals and the other excuses he uses have to stop as they are becoming wholesomely repetitive and he has to make some bold decisions or we'll be telling each other we can bounce back from Div 1 at the first attempt.

[benn]

I followed Coyles managerial career from his Falkirk days and more closely when he went to Burnley as I have quite a few Burnley mates. He inherited a decent side at Burnley and didnt actually make too many additions. The season he got them promoted they were pretty average but went on decent league cup run beating Chelsea and then were 5 mins away from the final at home to Spurs.

They ended up making a late run into the play offs and although Reading and Sheff Utd were favorites they beat both.

Just like at Bolton he had a "golden" 6 month spell but even the Burnley lot knew his limitations. They told me that defensively he hadnt a clue and his tactics were simply to attack.

I believe he is tactically limited and in reality this is the first time he has had to deal with a slump in form and has been found wanting both in player purchases and coaching ability.

[CAPSLOCK]

I posted a few months ago, probably post Muamba that I felt he might walk

This job is making him old

He should resign for his own good

[Hoboh]

I posted a few months ago, probably post Muamba that I felt he might walk

This job is making him old

He should resign for his own good

And ours!

[H. Pedersen]

Name me a manager who doesn't come into a new job promising good football. Even Allardyce and Megson talked about a desire to play prettier stuff at times. I think only Mourinho has the standing (and the nerve) to promise ugly, effective football. Sooner or later though most managers feel the pressure and try to win at all costs.

Good football is hard enough but WINNING good football is an entirely different matter. It's not a matter of getting one or two ball-playing midfielders and a couple of wingers in. Barcelona can only play the way they do because their center backs are better on the ball than most midfielders. Hell Victor Valdes is better with his feet than Kevin Davies. Winning pretty takes years of preparation and lots of money. Winning ugly just takes players of average skill and above average determination, managed by a man with the work ethic of Sam Allardyce, Tony Pulis, or Jose Mourinho. These guys spent days looking at the opponent, figuring out how to set up the team to take advantage of any little flaw they might see, and installing iron discipline in their sides.

We've got the average players and I actually think they have the above average determination too. So what's missing . . . hmm . . .

[TKIZ!]

I followed Coyles managerial career from his Falkirk days and more closely when he went to Burnley as I have quite a few Burnley mates. He inherited a decent side at Burnley and didnt actually make too many additions. The season he got them promoted they were pretty average but went on decent league cup run beating Chelsea and then were 5 mins away from the final at home to Spurs.

They ended up making a late run into the play offs and although Reading and Sheff Utd were favorites they beat both.

Just like at Bolton he had a "golden" 6 month spell but even the Burnley lot knew his limitations. They told me that defensively he hadnt a clue and his tactics were simply to attack.

I believe he is tactically limited and in reality this is the first time he has had to deal with a slump in form and has been found wanting both in player purchases and coaching ability.

Good analysis that fella. You do tend to find that form in the latter part of a football season can be crucial, a lot of the promoted teams went on a massive run after November (West Ham, Reading and Burnley)

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Good analysis that fella. You do tend to find that form in the latter part of a football season can be crucial, a lot of the promoted teams went on a massive run after November (West Ham, Reading and Burnley)

That's why this season's very far from over, whoever's in charge. But at the moment 75 points looks a long way away.

[Jakerbeef]

A big name in this discussion is Stuart Holden, who kept the whole gameplan ticking over. Add in the good play of players like Lee, Muamba, Mavies, Elmander and Sturridge during that time and it's a very different team.

Right now I don't really think we have the players for tippy-tappy. Lee's finding confidence again and Mavies, well I dunno what's happened to that lad. Maybe he took relegation hard.