The "Nothing to see here"Transfer thread

[LeverEnd]

Its the usual weasel words to say "premiership loans". Most of this squad has quite extensive premiership experience. Farrelly was bog standard at best. And Mike Whitlow was never a centre half whilst I've got a hole in my arse, that is until Sam got hold of him, and played him in a very rigid system where every player knew their role. And therein lies the rub. Mills, Wheater, Knight and Baptiste have the requisite quality to be up near the top. does this make them great? No. but a decent manager would tease it out of them.

This is spot on.

Some of our fans want to criticise the talent we have but they're not nearly as bad as some are making out. The way people talk, you'd think they were some of the worst defenders in the league. They've all played in the Premier League, they have around 1000 games between them and we've seen them all play good games in the past. If we had someone like Allardyce in control of these players, they'd be turned into a good defence overnight because whilst they're not brilliant individuals, they clearly don't have any defensive structure in place and that's the root of the problem. We defend too deep, we are awful against crosses, there are too many gaps, the communication is obviously poor - these are all things that can be corrected. Our defenders aren't top quality individuals but they are capable of being a strong defence for this league with the right guidance, so I think it's unfair of our fans to pin the blame on them for the goals we concede.

They're not great and they're not awful but the point is, a good manager would get a lot more out of them than what Freedman is getting. If Allardyce came in tomorrow, we'd concede fewer goals than any other team in the league for the rest of the season.

Come on now, we've all seen the Blackburn goals. I think this is stretching your anti-Dougie agenda just a little bit far!

[FaninOz]

Its the usual weasel words to say "premiership loans". Most of this squad has quite extensive premiership experience. Farrelly was bog standard at best. And Mike Whitlow was never a centre half whilst I've got a hole in my arse, that is until Sam got hold of him, and played him in a very rigid system where every player knew their role. And therein lies the rub. Mills, Wheater, Knight and Baptiste have the requisite quality to be up near the top. does this make them great? No. but a decent manager would tease it out of them.

This is spot on.

Some of our fans want to criticise the talent we have but they're not nearly as bad as some are making out. The way people talk, you'd think they were some of the worst defenders in the league. They've all played in the Premier League, they have around 1000 games between them and we've seen them all play good games in the past. If we had someone like Allardyce in control of these players, they'd be turned into a good defence overnight because whilst they're not brilliant individuals, they clearly don't have any defensive structure in place and that's the root of the problem. We defend too deep, we are awful against crosses, there are too many gaps, the communication is obviously poor - these are all things that can be corrected. Our defenders aren't top quality individuals but they are capable of being a strong defence for this league with the right guidance, so I think it's unfair of our fans to pin the blame on them for the goals we concede.

They're not great and they're not awful but the point is, a good manager would get a lot more out of them than what Freedman is getting. If Allardyce came in tomorrow, we'd concede fewer goals than any other team in the league for the rest of the season.

Sorry but I don't agree.

It's the players on the pitch who let in the goals, if they are good quality players then they should know who to mark and when to mark them. I've seen highlights of all the matches so far this season and for nearly every goal the scorer has been unmarked with plenty of time to score. That's not a coaching or formation or manager problem it's a "set of headless chickens" not getting close to or keeping the "foxes" quiet.

[BWFC_Insane]

Thing is those that think our squad is "good enough" are in the minority amongst Bolton fans.

For fear of as DSB would say this argument becoming entrenched "binary positions" I do not think this squad should be bottom or bottom half of this league. And I don't think we will be come end of the season. The caveat I will add is that good players or players with plenty of premiership games have gone down from this league, in fact only last season Wolves went that way. I think relegated clubs have a harder time in this league without fresh impetus, something Allardyce talked about at West Ham.

Anyhow I think we should obviously be higher up.

However, I think we are probably 4 good players off challenging the top two. And 2/3 players off really having a good tilt at getting in the play offs and winning them.

I said before the season we could finish anywhere from 10th to 4th depending on what we got in. I still think that we'll finish somewhere in that bracket. But for me we're two maybe three players short of really pushing into the play off positions when you look around at other clubs who will also be challenging. I've seen elsewhere people saying we need 6 or 7 new players. I don't subscribe to that theory.

I still think comparison to the side Allardyce had, that contained two premiership winners a striker with over 60 premiership goals to his name at the time, and the likes of Bergsson, Gardner, Jussi, Elliott and Nolan (all players he inherited) plus Frandsen doesn't stand up. I very much take the point that Allardyce improved some of these players and I very much take the point that he created an effective team out of not very much at all. But the raw materials there were better, of that I have absolutely no doubt. And I stand by the fact that whilst finances were tight, Allardyce was supported that season to bring in players on loan like Hendry and Farrelly from premiership clubs. Gareth Farrelly might be described by some as "bang average" but watching the play-off final highlights, reminds you of the quality he did possess on the ball. Perhaps not premiership level, but in the championship he was a decent player for us.

This is all a bit futile, but I think it is fair enough to be a bit concerned that we weren't able to sign loan deals ahead of Barnsley and Burnley. If people think changing the manager will get us promotion. Well maybe they are right. I hope if that is the case we do it and it works. I don't believe that to be the case and I do think we're most likely to be needing a major rebuild and re-sizing over the next few years. Sadly.

[Lord Kangana]

If you're going to compare Farrelly to our worst players, then brilliant, you win, but better at this level than say Eagles? Nonsense.

[Beefheart]

If you're going to compare Farrelly to our worst players, then brilliant, you win, but better at this level than say Eagles? Nonsense.

I have to say I didn't think the squad of players we had when we went up with Allardyce is as good as the one we have now. But then when I think about it we had Jussi, Bergsson (got 10 goals I think that season!), Hendry, Gardner, Frandsen, Nolan (pre pies), Warhurst, Ricketts and Holdsworth (may be remembered primarily for that semi-final but got about 15 goals that season...I think) who were all good at this level and were the core of a side that got 10 points in the first 4 games following promotion. So maybe it's closer than I initially though.

I'm a fan of Dougie and I think he'll turn this round, but a centre back aside I don't think he can really have too many complaints about the players we have.

[malcd1]

So, when does the loan window open? Is it before our next game and how long does it last?

[ChrisC]

So, when does the loan window open? Is it before our next game and how long does it last?

Next Monday I think.

[BWFC_Insane]

If you're going to compare Farrelly to our worst players, then brilliant, you win, but better at this level than say Eagles? Nonsense.

I'm not trying to compare him to anyone. The thing is Allardyce was able throughout that season to bring in loan deals. If you like Farrelly=Ramage. Players that might be bang average in many people's eyes. But we aren't able to even add that at the moment.

The squad Allardyce inherited in his first season here was full of quality. And that meant those players like Gudjohnsen, Jensen, Fish etc went for fees that freed up the wage bill to some extent and provided small amounts of money to the manager. Of course it was restrictive. But not as restrictive as it seems now. Our big earning players can't be sold for love nor money, which also tells its own story.

But again, in an attempt to avoid being put in a binary position. Allardyce when he came here was a better manager than Freedman is now. But then he'd had more experience. I think Freedman has the potential to be very very good. That doesn't mean it will be fulfilled but I see a determination in him that we've not had since Allardyce in a manager.

[malcd1]

So, when does the loan window open? Is it before our next game and how long does it last?

Next Monday I think.

I didn't think we would be signing anyone yesterday but I am naively hopeful we will loan a decent centre half and a forward.

[thebish]

essentially pointless and fruitless to try to compare this era with another one - the footballing world has moved on since Allardyce did what he did with signings and loan signings - 'tis a different world.

[ChrisC]

essentially pointless and fruitless to try to compare this era with another one - the footballing world has moved on since Allardyce did what he did with signings and loan signings - 'tis a different world.

Correct.

For a start, the ageing superstars go to lands afar these days for massive pay days.

[Loyal White]

For comparison purposes - the 2000/2001 squad with total appearances.

Goalkeepers:
Jussi Jääskeläinen 27 (0)
Matt Clarke 11 (0)
Steve Banks 13 (1)
Tommy Wright 3 (1)
Juergen Sommer 1 (0)

Defenders:
Guðni Bergsson 50 (0)
Robbie Elliott 33 (3)
John O'Kane 28 (2)
Colin Hendry 26 (0)
Simon Charlton 24 (5)
Anthony Barness 24 (3)
Mark Fish 15 (1)
Mike Whitlow 8 (4)
Leam Richardson 6 (8)
Dean Holden 1 (0)
Nicky Hunt 0 (1)
John Gope-Fenepej 0 (2)

Midfielders:
Gareth Farrelly 43 (5)
Per Frandsen 41 (5)
Kevin Nolan 33 (7)
Paul Warhurst 22 (1)
Franck Passi 17 (9)
Nicky Summerbee 12 (3)
David Norris 2 (0)
Jeff Smith 1 (0)

Forwards:
Bo Hansen 44 (5)
Ricardo Gardner 31 (5)
Dean Holdsworth 29 (10)
Michael Ricketts 26 (20)
Ian Marshall 16 (25)
Isaiah Rankin 11 (7)
Andy Campbell 3 (3)
Emanuele Morini 2 (0)
Carsten Fredgaard 1 (4)
Paul Wheatcroft 0 (3)
Chris Downey 0 (1)

[plymouth wanderer]

Give it a fvcking rest!

This is a transfer rumour thread

[jaffka]

Is this one being locked and another for the next false dawn being created?

[LeverEnd]

For comparison purposes - the 2000/2001 squad with total appearances.


Defenders:
Guðni Bergsson 50 (0)
Robbie Elliott 33 (3)
John O'Kane 28 (2)
Colin Hendry 26 (0)
Simon Charlton 24 (5)
Anthony Barness 24 (3)
Mark Fish 15 (1)
Mike Whitlow 8 (4)
Leam Richardson 6 (8)
Dean Holden 1 (0)
Nicky Hunt 0 (1)
John Gope-Fenepej 0 (2)

If we're comparing there's the big difference.

[wanderers_on_tour]

Sadly i'd imagine not Jaffka. There's still the loan window to come!

[plymouth wanderer]

Is this one being locked and another for the next false dawn being created?

All done!

Come on over to my thread.... we don't bite