Problems with Gartside

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keveh
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Problems with Gartside

Post by keveh » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:14 am

I know this may come across as a spot of :fishing: but I am curious as to why people are calling for Gartside to leave as well as Dougie.

For me he has done some things that can be questions and some that most fans would agree with.

Pros
Bringing in Megson to steady the ship
Bringing in Coyle when we needed a real pick me up
Bringing in Freedman as a young manager with a lot of potential

Cons
Not backing Allardyce and the whole Sammy Lee thing that followed
Sticking with Megson for too long
Sticking with Coyle for too long
Sticking with Freedman for too long

I would totally understand if people wanted to move the Megson appointment in to the cons section as it was a very uninspiring appointment, however he did the job that we needed him to do.

For me the biggest mistake that he has made is not backing Allardyce when we really could have pushed on to that next level of remaining a long term Premier League team. Aside from that I can't see much that he's done wrong.

This isn't me defending him, I'm just curious as to why some people get in to a range when his name is mentioned.
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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:19 am

But I don't think we could afford to back Allardyce to the extent Allardyce wanted, Kev – Gartside doesn't shit coins. They asked Eddie if he wanted to plough in money he'd probably not make back, and he declined. Meanwhile Sam was eyeing up the England job and not doing very much to wave away interest from Newcastle and other such clubs with more money than we'll ever have. We can't plait fog.

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:26 am

I don't think it was realistic to start buying multiple Anelka type players for the sort of money involved, certainly not on the word of a manager claiming we'd get into the Champs League....possibly....maybe. Had we done so, I suspect our debt would be a lot more.

As far as chairmen go, I think we could have done a lot worse. Megson was backed with signing reasonable players that had some resale value (Elmander and a few others aside). The real problems started with the Coyle signings, that were expensive crap and have no resale value. The hiring of the next manager will probably be the ultimate test for Gartside, as he has to get it right.

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by jaffka » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:33 am

I predict another Coyle and megson debate will occur.

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:14 pm

Back to Sam, I think his real fault was over-ambition. We were going places, proving points and becoming a real force to be reckoned with. Two seasons amongst the best in Europe and players of real quality. If he'd carried on and let it all develop patiently, who knows where we could have gone? He didn't, started seeing haloes around his head in the mirror and seeing himself as the next St George. If he, Gartside and Eddie Davies had sat down and evaluated it all.....

Ambition is great and he can't be condemned for having it, but....anyway, here's his view:

http://tinyurl.com/3vz9rl8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by H. Pedersen » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:47 pm

Gartside has done precisely one thing right, which was appointing Allardyce. After that I think Gartside got an enormous ego and thought he was far more responsible for the success of the club than he actually was. The table doesn't lie, and Allardyce is currently TWENTY NINE places ahead of Gartside. The media always used to talk about "Allardyce and Gartside, Big Sam and Big Phil." They were half right.

The thing is that even when the team was successful Gartside was an embarrassment. "Fax in Pocket," "People who know football," etc. After the failure of Premier League 2 and FOUR botched managerial appointments, he seems to have disappeared.

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:51 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:Gartside has done precisely one thing right, which was appointing Allardyce. After that I think Gartside got an enormous ego and thought he was far more responsible for the success of the club than he actually was. The table doesn't lie, and Allardyce is currently TWENTY NINE places ahead of Gartside. The media always used to talk about "Allardyce and Gartside, Big Sam and Big Phil." They were half right.

The thing is that even when the team was successful Gartside was an embarrassment. "Fax in Pocket," "People who know football," etc. After the failure of Premier League 2 and FOUR botched managerial appointments, he seems to have disappeared.
Add in the banning relegation thing, the Hamann bragging and effectively being labelled a liar by a judge recently, and the Big Sam goodwill has been well and truly exhausted.
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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:10 pm

The Carling Cup ticket fiasco & the fact that after several years making squillions in the Premiership we're now too skint to sack a lame ass manager. All the while he's been doing very well financially out of it I imagine.

To quote protesting Real Madrid fans a few years ago

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by Peter Thompson » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:15 pm

What apart from the last 4 awful managerial appointments, his overall contempt for the supporters to whom he claims he is one, 'people who know about football' comment, his general arrogance & smugness, allowing the club to run up debts of £160M by giving out ridiculous contracts to average players, giving Megson an astonishing transfer budget....nothing really !

Oh and being a Media whore when things where going well under Allardyce....never off the TV & Radio - now everything's gone pear shaped & we're dropping like a stone, due to his incompetence he's seemingly lost his voice and has kept in the background at a time when the supporters 'need' answers and decisive leadership.

On a personal note I despise him as much as Freedman

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by jaffka » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:19 pm

Peter Thompson wrote:What apart from the last 4 awful managerial appointments, his overall contempt for the supporters to whom he claims he is one, 'people who know about football' comment, his general arrogance & smugness, allowing the club to run up debts of £160M by giving out ridiculous contracts to average players, giving Megson an astonishing transfer budget....nothing really !

Oh and being a Media whore when things where going well under Allardyce....never off the TV & Radio - now everything's gone pear shaped & we're dropping like a stone, due to his incompetence he's seemingly lost his voice and has kept in the background at a time when the supporters 'need' answers and decisive leadership.

On a personal note I despise him as much as Freedman
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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by StaffsTrotter » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:22 pm

thought we'd done this topic a few weeks ago ....

anyway didn't garty bring eddie on board, who has financed the most succesful period this club is probably going to experience in our lifetimes

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:25 pm

Mainly its his inability to pick a good football manager. Cant bear the thought of another left wing appointment because he thinks he knows football better than me. The megsons agent choosing megson episode as well.

Lying in court doesn't endear him to me.

The debt will be interesting. We have nothing to worry about apparently. Yet we seem to have less cash than sides playing in front of smaller crowds who havent been in the top flight. We shall see.

He did bring eddie on board - so has favour from that. Without him would we have seen the highs?

He cant sort this mess out though. So want him gone.

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by thebish » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:28 pm

StaffsTrotter wrote:thought we'd done this topic a few weeks ago ....

anyway didn't garty bring eddie on board, who has financed the most succesful period this club is probably going to experience in our lifetimes

yeah - absolutely... a fact often neglected when the Garty-out banners are hastily crayonned!
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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by boltonboris » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:29 pm

thebish wrote:
StaffsTrotter wrote:thought we'd done this topic a few weeks ago ....

anyway didn't garty bring eddie on board, who has financed the most succesful period this club is probably going to experience in our lifetimes

yeah - absolutely... a fact often neglected when the Garty-out banners are hastily crayonned!
That was about 16 years ago...
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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by jetsetwilly » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:29 pm

Allowing a debt of £165+ to build up is gross misconduct

Forcing Megson to throw the UEFA cup game when we had a real chance of getting to the final

Not sacking Coyle before we were relegated from the Prem when he had clearly lost his way

Not sacking Coyle when it was obvious he wasn't the man to get us promoted

Appointing a very poor Freedman who had almost been sacked by Palace 12 months earlier

Not sacking Freedman several times over the past few years

Not speaking to the media

Need I go on

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by thebish » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:31 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:Allowing a debt of £165+ to build up is gross misconduct
no it's not - not this particular "debt" in this context.
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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by StaffsTrotter » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:33 pm

officer_dibble wrote:Mainly its his inability to pick a good football manager. Cant bear the thought of another left wing appointment because he thinks he knows football better than me. The megsons agent choosing megson episode as well.

Lying in court doesn't endear him to me.

The debt will be interesting. We have nothing to worry about apparently. Yet we seem to have less cash than sides playing in front of smaller crowds who havent been in the top flight. We shall see.

He did bring eddie on board - so has favour from that. Without him would we have seen the highs?

He cant sort this mess out though. So want him gone.
Can't believe its solely his call, but hindsight wrt the managers. Like signing players there are no guarantees, even with past track record. Perhaps there should be a clause like there is in the financial world - past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
I'll give you, he does seem less than professional in some of his actions & gets carried away with his importance. Think there is a lot of it in football - its like a parallel universe where normal rules don't apply

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:34 pm

officer_dibble wrote:Mainly its his inability to pick a good football manager.
They all did ok to begin with though.

At the moment, the whole giving risky managers 3-year deals so they're hard financially to sack is my major gripe.

Coyle lasted about 5 minutes at Wigan and Megson got sacked fairly quickly from his hometown club. If someone had acted quicker (with Coyle) we might not be in this pickle.

Then there's the whole £160M thing.
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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:41 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:The table doesn't lie
So Southampton and Swansea are bigger than Liverpool and Man United?

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Re: Problems with Gartside

Post by StaffsTrotter » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:46 pm

boltonboris wrote:
thebish wrote:
StaffsTrotter wrote:thought we'd done this topic a few weeks ago ....

anyway didn't garty bring eddie on board, who has financed the most succesful period this club is probably going to experience in our lifetimes

yeah - absolutely... a fact often neglected when the Garty-out banners are hastily crayonned!
That was about 16 years ago...
and which has seen us build a new stadium, training complex & been pretty successful

& in that 16 years we've not seen ED threaten to walk, demand his money back or otherwise be anything other than supportive. which all would suggest ED & PG have a pretty good working relationship

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