Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

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EverSoYouri
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by EverSoYouri » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:15 pm

thebish wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:
boltonboris wrote:Personally, I'm most excited about Lennon.. No idea why. Just an inkling
Yeah, I'm coming round to that way of thinking too. It might be because I didn't think he'd fancy it and there will be a bit of kudos in appointing him. Whether he'd be any good or not - who knows?
I really don't know about Lennon... would he flood the club with scots-league imports on the basis that they did ok up there so must be good?

he's only ever managed one club - and the one thing people seem consistent in asking for is experience of the championship...

I wonder if the excitement over him beinmg in the frame (which, if I am honest, I share to some degree) is simply because he's the best known - a "name" if you like?

As one who isn't particularly excited by the thought of Lennon (but would back him if he came), let me suggest that the excitement might have three sources: (1) as the Bish notes, he's a "name"; (2) he has handled pressure at a club bigger than ours (never mind that the Scottish Prem is on the whole barely a match for the English Championship) and, just as he did as a player, looks like a tough nut; (3) he has something to prove and so would be hungry to make a go of it.

Not bad qualifications. Would he be more Roy Keane than Bruce Rioch? That would be my concern.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by thebish » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:27 pm

I have to confess i know next to nothing about him as a manager. Is he a mr shouty type??
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:29 pm

EverSoYouri wrote:
thebish wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:
boltonboris wrote:Personally, I'm most excited about Lennon.. No idea why. Just an inkling
Yeah, I'm coming round to that way of thinking too. It might be because I didn't think he'd fancy it and there will be a bit of kudos in appointing him. Whether he'd be any good or not - who knows?
I really don't know about Lennon... would he flood the club with scots-league imports on the basis that they did ok up there so must be good?

he's only ever managed one club - and the one thing people seem consistent in asking for is experience of the championship...

I wonder if the excitement over him beinmg in the frame (which, if I am honest, I share to some degree) is simply because he's the best known - a "name" if you like?

As one who isn't particularly excited by the thought of Lennon (but would back him if he came), let me suggest that the excitement might have three sources: (1) as the Bish notes, he's a "name"; (2) he has handled pressure at a club bigger than ours (never mind that the Scottish Prem is on the whole barely a match for the English Championship) and, just as he did as a player, looks like a tough nut; (3) he has something to prove and so would be hungry to make a go of it.

Not bad qualifications. Would he be more Roy Keane than Bruce Rioch? That would be my concern.
I can't see him being a Gartside sort of bloke to be honest - bit like MacKay - think he might be viewed as being too much baggage - which is why I think Hughton, Clarke or Mowbray might be more likely...

I think I might be tempted to give Lennon a try ahead of Hughton, but I think Hughton is more likely...

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by thebish » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:36 pm

is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by bobo the clown » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:48 pm

thebish wrote:is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
It took you 5 whole days. You're slipping Vicarage.
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:54 pm

thebish wrote:is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
I can't see her being a Gartside sort of bloke, either.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by EverSoYouri » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:01 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
thebish wrote:is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
I can't see her being a Gartside sort of bloke, either.
:D She'd have Garty on toast!

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Winter Hill White » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:27 pm

Denis Wise - odds shortening.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:27 pm

EverSoYouri wrote: As one who isn't particularly excited by the thought of Lennon (but would back him if he came), let me suggest that the excitement might have three sources: (1) as the Bish notes, he's a "name"; (2) he has handled pressure at a club bigger than ours (never mind that the Scottish Prem is on the whole barely a match for the English Championship) and, just as he did as a player, looks like a tough nut; (3) he has something to prove and so would be hungry to make a go of it.

Not bad qualifications. Would he be more Roy Keane than Bruce Rioch? That would be my concern.
I think 2 & 3 are exactly why he'd my (albeit fairly uninformed) choice. I think we need someone with a bit of aggression.
Re comparisons to Keane, it appears that Lennon's players thought a lot of him. I don't think you can say that for Keane. I think he manages to get great performances out of players and foster a togetherness without alienating large parts of the squad. This is just an impression from bits I've read from his time at Celtic. His punditry suggests a considered and intelligent view of the game.

I can't see it though, he'll get better offers than ours I expect.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:32 pm

Winter Hill White wrote:Denis Wise - odds shortening.
Well you know. If it keeps Phil Brown away then it'll do for me!
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by boltonboris » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:46 pm

Lennon, I've heard is Tough but fair.. Which will be what we need, as long as he doesn't overstep the mark.

Dougie was 'tough' but seemed to rub the whole squad up the wrong way, but that's part and parcel of managing a shit team and not being able to justify to players why you insist on leaving them out when the players before them are playing shite.

Celtic had a bit of steel about them though under his stewardship. Hard to beat in Europe (on the most part) and were more than able to tough it out on cold Tuesday nights in Aberdeen etc..

Think he'll be a good appointment
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Enoch » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:53 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
thebish wrote:is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
I can't see her being a Gartside sort of bloke, either.
Half way there.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by bobo the clown » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:55 pm

Enoch wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:
thebish wrote:is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
I can't see her being a Gartside sort of bloke, either.
Half way there.
She'd certainly tick a lot of boxes.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Jugs » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:57 pm

bobo the clown wrote:Who could we get that would "capture the imagination" ?

We need solid, capable & experienced. I'd fear a reaction if it was Mackay just because of the fact that some large section would go onto the attack due to recent revelations. There are decent number who would fit the general bill.

I'll admit to thinking "really ?" when Rioch was appointed. I was delighted with Coyle's selection. I remember seeing the negative reaction to Megson and thinking how unreasonable that was. I came on here when we got Freedman and made the comprehensive response of "Meh !" which sort of summed up my view.
It's a good question, and certainly a big question because it's so subjective. Who can capture my imagination might not be someone who can capture yours, and vice versa. But there are probably certain 'geniuses' who can capture all our imaginations - the Okocha's and Djorkaeff's of this world.

But, for me, I'd like someone with some balls, some fire in their belly, a bit of bite, passion. I'd like a manager who, now and then, isn't afraid to run down the touchline like a maniac to celebrate a last minute winner. It all sounds a bit Barry Fry, but there have been managers of this mould who have been very successful. Mourinho for one (I know we'll never get Mourinho).

Di Canio is the obvious one that springs to mind in regards who we can actually attract, but I have my own reservations on that one (like probably all of us). That said, I wouldn't say no. I'd be ready to get behind him 100%, even if I was terrified.

I've already mentioned Steve Evans, whose name didn't go down too well earlier this week. But he'd be on my personal list. I think he would inject some passion and enthusiasm into the club. I'd also mention David Flitcroft at Bury. This guys got a lot of fire, a heck of a lot of enthusiasm, and he seems to be a very driven, determined individual. Whether or not he's ready for a club like Bolton is another story. And a final manager who would really capture the imagination, despite perhaps not being one to run down the touchline, would be the return of Rioch.

Again, these kinda guys might not be the names you might think would immediately capture your imagination. But they play good attacking footballer, with Evans in particular being a proper character with so much fire you think he's gonna explode. They're not shy guys, they're not defeatists, and they seem to know how to put a smile on faces. But it's just my opinion.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Prufrock » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:00 pm

Yep, Lennon is the one I'd be most 'excited about'. Part of I think is as with any young manager he's not had time for any limitations to be exposed, so I'm entitled to dream he could be f*cking amazing.

As for 'Scots League' imports, I'd be happy if he could get hold of a Wanyama or Forster for us!
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:11 pm

bobo the clown wrote:
Enoch wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:
thebish wrote:is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
I can't see her being a Gartside sort of bloke, either.
Half way there.
She'd certainly tick a lot of boxes.
Does that have any spelling mistakes in it?

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by bedwetter2 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:36 pm

I've met Hughton and had a long drunken conversation with him in the evening of a Spurs annual golf day. A very nice and genuine chap who strikes me as ambitious and knowledgable. Whether he has enough drive to unite what appears to be a demoralised and divided squad of players is something I can't gauge.

I think that Lennon may be more of a risk than ED/PG will be prepared to take based upon his limited managerial experience and I think that MacKay may have also disqualified himself with those two but accept that it depends on how the shortlist candidates interview. The rest of the contenders do not, in my view, have the requisite qualities. If the Telegraph is right about the Brown story then Gartside will be making the same mistake that he did with Coyle when he picked someone who had previous club connections. It might go down well with some of the local village idiots but the old adage usually has some truth to it - "never go back". And I am aware of the Sam Allardyce connections but clearly that luck cannot be repeated.

Don't forget that a deputy and coaches will be required. Whilst a new manager will want his old team around him, I think that in this case the club should insist that promotion comes from within to create some continuity for the future if and when the manager moves on. It will also save some small amount of expenditure.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:59 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
bobo the clown wrote:
Enoch wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:
thebish wrote:is Hope Powell still kicking her heels?
I can't see her being a Gartside sort of bloke, either.
Half way there.
She'd certainly tick a lot of boxes.
Does that have any spelling mistakes in it?
:lol:
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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by bwfcdan94 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:01 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:Apologies for formatting. Win percentages of a few touted with some of our previous for comparison. Boothroyd included for no purpose other than to make Dan's day!

Edit: also attached as a jpeg..


-----------------Games - Win % - Notes
Steve Clarke -60 -31.67
Phil Brown -321 -31.78 -Only win % 34 and above is current Southend job
Dougie Freedman -192 -34.2
Gary Megson -652 -36.66 -A mixed bag of percentages. But he's a wanker anyway
Aidy Boothroyd -368 -36.68 -Colchester let him down
Tony Pulis -922 -36.77 -Gillingham and Palace aside, he bimbles between 28% and 36%
Alan Curbishley -791 -38.18
Malky MacKay -229 -38.86 -Win % of 33.33 @ Watford, 43.2 @ Cardiff
Sam Allardyce -886 -39.73 - Wanderers percentage was a career high 41.24%
Chris Hughton -231 -40.26 -Impressive win % at Newcastle and Birmingham
Billy Davies -479 -40.71 -Motherwell aside he's in the 40s
Brian McDermott -433 -40.88 -34% plus win ratio in all managerial jobs
Owen Coyle -352 -40.91 -33.32% @ Bolton and 30.43% @ Wigan
Keith Hill -389 -41.13 - Barnsley aside he's in the 40s
Tony Mowbray -450 -43.11 - Aside from a 4 game caretaker spell Win % is almost 40% plus in all jobs
Mixu Paatelainen -217 -43.32 - Win percentages over 34% except at Hibs
Neil Lennon -228 -69.74 -High percentage, but a 1 horse race?

There is no context, but Mowbray stands out as being consistently decent and with experience of our sort of level.
That has made my day AT, mainly because it proves he is better than Megson and Freedman and not a million miles of BSA.
The above post is complete bollox/garbage/nonsense, please point this out to me at any and every occasion possible.

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Re: Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:15 pm

bedwetter2 wrote:Don't forget that a deputy and coaches will be required. Whilst a new manager will want his old team around him, I think that in this case the club should insist that promotion comes from within to create some continuity for the future if and when the manager moves on. It will also save some small amount of expenditure.
In Lennon's case he used to work with Tomo Formerly Of This Parish but that ended a bit weirdly. Latterly his sidekicks were John Mjallby and Garry Parker, neither of whom appear to have gained notable employment first, but that management team does appear a trifle inexperienced.

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