Worst Decisions Bolton have made over the years

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Burnden Park needed some serious upgrading, but letting them build The Normid Wall was an epic fail. Would probably have been better to bulldoze the Embankment completely (where my Grandad was in the crush but survived) and build a shop fully behind with a small stand and corporate boxes in front. Away fans should have been put in the Lever End, where they could have had a world-class view of blue pointed railings and ballboy's backsides.

But the winner......changing those wonderful old *Booths* floodlights which looked better than the Eiffel Tower to bulbs-on-toothbrushes. Owners, directors, managers, players come and go, but floodlights should be there forever. Tuh, never forgiven them....

I'd forgotten about the floodlight disappointment. They did seem tinpot.

Re Normid - I think most folks reckoned we'd get the sort of set-up they had at Selhurst and Boothferry Parks, with the "Back half" sold off and a slimmer terrace in front. But that's not what the Co-Op wanted - fair enough: who'd want a thin strip going backwards from Manchester Road into the wastelands above St Peter's Way? - and by that point we were very far from having any say in it whatsoever.

Best thing about the Normid, and it was scant consolation, was noted in the brilliant Map of Burnden produced by the Normid Nomad (ed: Coffeymagic): On the roof you'd get "Various 'workmen' watching the game"...

[thebish]

Burnden Park needed some serious upgrading, but letting them build The Normid Wall was an epic fail. Would probably have been better to bulldoze the Embankment completely (where my Grandad was in the crush but survived) and build a shop fully behind with a small stand and corporate boxes in front. Away fans should have been put in the Lever End, where they could have had a world-class view of blue pointed railings and ballboy's backsides.

But the winner......changing those wonderful old *Booths* floodlights which looked better than the Eiffel Tower to bulbs-on-toothbrushes. Owners, directors, managers, players come and go, but floodlights should be there forever. Tuh, never forgiven them....

I'd forgotten about the floodlight disappointment. They did seem tinpot.

I once got a set of subutteo floodlights for christmas - I was so excited - we tried to play at night with the house lights off (as you would!) - they only lit four little circles on the pitch! you had to move them to follow the action!

for some reason, talk of the Burnden floodlights reminded me of this!

[Worthy4England]

Burnden Park needed some serious upgrading, but letting them build The Normid Wall was an epic fail. Would probably have been better to bulldoze the Embankment completely (where my Grandad was in the crush but survived) and build a shop fully behind with a small stand and corporate boxes in front. Away fans should have been put in the Lever End, where they could have had a world-class view of blue pointed railings and ballboy's backsides.

But the winner......changing those wonderful old *Booths* floodlights which looked better than the Eiffel Tower to bulbs-on-toothbrushes. Owners, directors, managers, players come and go, but floodlights should be there forever. Tuh, never forgiven them....

I'd forgotten about the floodlight disappointment. They did seem tinpot.

I once got a set of subutteo floodlights for christmas - I was so excited - we tried to play at night with the house lights off (as you would!) - they only lit four little circles on the pitch! you had to move them to follow the action!

for some reason, talk of the Burnden floodlights reminded me of this!

That was a complete pi$$er...

I'm still scarred by it, to this day.

[Bruce Rioja]

You could see the old Burnden floodlights from our house. Then, one day, you couldn't.

[Andy Waller]

You could see the old Burnden floodlights from our house. Then, one day, you couldn't.

Did you finally invest in some curtains Bruce?

[jaffka]

You could see the old Burnden floodlights from our house. Then, one day, you couldn't.

Did you finally invest in some curtains Bruce?

[Bruce Rioja]

You could see the old Burnden floodlights from our house. Then, one day, you couldn't.

Did you finally invest in some curtains Bruce?

No, we moved.

[William the White]

Burnden Park needed some serious upgrading, but letting them build The Normid Wall was an epic fail. Would probably have been better to bulldoze the Embankment completely (where my Grandad was in the crush but survived) and build a shop fully behind with a small stand and corporate boxes in front. Away fans should have been put in the Lever End, where they could have had a world-class view of blue pointed railings and ballboy's backsides.

But the winner......changing those wonderful old *Booths* floodlights which looked better than the Eiffel Tower to bulbs-on-toothbrushes. Owners, directors, managers, players come and go, but floodlights should be there forever. Tuh, never forgiven them....

I'd forgotten about the floodlight disappointment. They did seem tinpot.

Re Normid - I think most folks reckoned we'd get the sort of set-up they had at Selhurst and Boothferry Parks, with the "Back half" sold off and a slimmer terrace in front. But that's not what the Co-Op wanted - fair enough: who'd want a thin strip going backwards from Manchester Road into the wastelands above St Peter's Way? - and by that point we were very far from having any say in it whatsoever.

Best thing about the Normid, and it was scant consolation, was noted in the brilliant Map of Burnden produced by the Normid Nomad (ed: Coffeymagic): On the roof you'd get "Various 'workmen' watching the game"...

That's what the multi-millionaires on the board chose... It was a choice... It ruined one of the most famous grounds in English football, scene of FA Cup semi-finals and one final, and many, many huge crowds, in the most architecturally crass (but cheapest for the developers) way imaginable...

It still makes me feel sick...

No excuses! None!

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑ I honestly didn't notice.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think most folks reckoned we'd get the sort of set-up they had at Selhurst and Boothferry Parks, with the "Back half" sold off and a slimmer terrace in front. But that's not what the Co-Op wanted - fair enough: who'd want a thin strip going backwards from Manchester Road into the wastelands above St Peter's Way? - and by that point we were very far from having any say in it whatsoever.

That's what the multi-millionaires on the board chose... It was a choice... It ruined one of the most famous grounds in English football, scene of FA Cup semi-finals and one final, and many, many huge crowds, in the most architecturally crass (but cheapest for the developers) way imaginable...

What were the other choices? I may be wrong but I don't think that by that time the board were doing anything but trying to keep the club afloat. McGovern's book is far more revealing than Neal's about how close we were to going under. I don't disagree for a minute that it was badly handled but we had a very weak hand, a bank overdraft that threatened our existence and a ground that varied between a tenth and at best a fifth full.

[bobo the clown]

I think most folks reckoned we'd get the sort of set-up they had at Selhurst and Boothferry Parks, with the "Back half" sold off and a slimmer terrace in front. But that's not what the Co-Op wanted - fair enough: who'd want a thin strip going backwards from Manchester Road into the wastelands above St Peter's Way? - and by that point we were very far from having any say in it whatsoever.

That's what the multi-millionaires on the board chose... It was a choice... It ruined one of the most famous grounds in English football, scene of FA Cup semi-finals and one final, and many, many huge crowds, in the most architecturally crass (but cheapest for the developers) way imaginable...

What were the other choices? I may be wrong but I don't think that by that time the board were doing anything but trying to keep the club afloat. McGovern's book is far more revealing than Neal's about how close we were to going under. I don't disagree for a minute that it was badly handled but we had a very weak hand, a bank overdraft that threatened our existence and a ground that varied between a tenth and at best a fifth full.

All this is correct, but it remains a very odd solution even for the supermarket.

The initial plan, as discussed elsewhere previously, was for a longer supermarket which would roughly halve the depth of the Embankment and with a roof off that, more of an awning I'd guess, making it a covered end. iirc this was all tied up with greater use of the pitch as it moved to being artificial turf but this was just at the time that this surface was banned for professional levels.

That income unavailable it meant 'back to the drawing board' and the solution was that abomination. From that moment on Burnden was doomed even if there were still to be some great days, & especially nights, to come.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yep, the supermarket could have stretched like elastic taffy along Scholey Street (yes, I did have to look that up) and down the back of the Embankment: same floor-size, different shape. That would have been much better for the club... but presumably much worse for the supermarket, who were paying. Have you ever been in a supermarket five times as long as it is wide? Go back much?

I suspect the redrawing of the plans after the banning of artificial pitches - a ban which is thankfully about to be repealed in the FL's two lower divisions, by the way - presented the (Co-)opportunity to redraw the plans in a way favourable to the buyer, who always had the whip hand anyway.

[bobo the clown]

Yep, the supermarket could have stretched like elastic taffy along Scholey Street (yes, I did have to look that up) and down the back of the Embankment: same floor-size, different shape. That would have been much better for the club... but presumably much worse for the supermarket, who were paying. Have you ever been in a supermarket five times as long as it is wide? Go back much?

I suspect the redrawing of the plans after the banning of artificial pitches - a ban which is thankfully about to be repealed in the FL's two lower divisions, by the way - presented the (Co-)opportunity to redraw the plans in a way favourable to the buyer, who always had the whip hand anyway.

Anyway ... I didn't like it. So there !!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I didn't like it either. I wouldn't like to have a heart bypass, but if it were needed...

[Aanvalluh]

With hindsight, if that WAS the way the ground was gonna end up, then maybe if Normid didn't want a long, thin shop, simple extend the building/wall right the way across the embankment and use the space behind for a gym, corporate match facilities etc etc (although there would have had to be funds/loans to do this), and then in front try to build a small stand to break the monotony of the wall (eg the two-decker @ Brentford springs to mind, maybe with a third tier of private boxes?) where at least the top deck gave you a decent view) and a scoreboard. No doubt plenty of adverts too.
All that might still have been ugly but the lesser of the two evils, a bit like a choice of either staring at Phil Neal or Giant Haystacks all day.
Anyway, all gone now, as did the greyhound stadium.
Question though, if they ever had redeveloped Burnden, and during that the team had to play home games at another stadium, taking into account the home gates and league position at the time, where would the fans have been happy to de-camp to?
Think O** T*******'s out, that leaves Maine Road (probably best bet), Gigg Lane (too small - 8000max - and being redeveloped anyway, Preston (Astro days?? Still mainly terraced??), Blackburn or Wigan....Central Park?
ADDS - Playing Tranmere Rovers... take 'em to Grundy Hill.

[H. Pedersen]

I think the biggest mistake was underestimating what a good manager Allardyce was. No, we don't know what Allardyce wanted in January 2007, but following his departure, everything Gartside did indicated that he just didn't get what an astonishing achievement it was that Allardyce got us into the top 8 repeatedly. There was the rush appointment of the inexperienced Lee, the jibes at Big Sam, the purchase of a dozen crap players who never did anything other than inflate the wage bill . . . it was all just done so casually, like we had a divine right to Premier League football.

Much like Venky's and a good portion of the West Ham faithful, Gartside and Davies just didn't appreciate what a unique talent Allardyce is.

[Jugs]

Perhaps not the worst decision, but I said when we missed out on Juke this summer that it'll be the biggest mistake we'll make for a while. I'm less pessimistic at the moment because of Lennon. And it's also hard to say what effect Juke would have had on us because the whole team has been so bad. But owing to the way last season ended, I really thought during the summer that missing out on him would cost us dearly, not least in terms of the amount of goals we get. So, I guess this is more of a mistake. Apparently our hands are tied by FFP and we couldn't exactly bid for him? Something like that. So it's hard to call it a bad decision, but the general idea is that I thought at the time that it will be the difference between promotion this year and no promotion.

[nelson66]

I think the biggest mistake was underestimating what a good manager Allardyce was. No, we don't know what Allardyce wanted in January 2007, but following his departure, everything Gartside did indicated that he just didn't get what an astonishing achievement it was that Allardyce got us into the top 8 repeatedly. There was the rush appointment of the inexperienced Lee, the jibes at Big Sam, the purchase of a dozen crap players who never did anything other than inflate the wage bill . . . it was all just done so casually, like we had a divine right to Premier League football.

Much like Venky's and a good portion of the West Ham faithful, Gartside and Davies just didn't appreciate what a unique talent Allardyce is.

Your damn right there

[thebish]

as it happens - and we'll never know this - but I suspect Sam got out of Bolton at exactly the right time for him. He'd have continued to keep us up, I imagine, but I don't think he would have carried on dragging us by our balls into top eight premiership finishes...

don't get me wrong - he probably would have been better than his immediate successors - but I think he had already peaked with us...

[H. Pedersen]

as it happens - and we'll never know this - but I suspect Sam got out of Bolton at exactly the right time for him. He'd have continued to keep us up, I imagine, but I don't think he would have carried on dragging us by our balls into top eight premiership finishes...

don't get me wrong - he probably would have been better than his immediate successors - but I think he had already peaked with us...

Yeah, he had peaked, but that's more down to the landscape of the Premier League than the fact that his ability declined. Shortly after his departure was when Man City and Tottenham started breaking the bank to get into the Champions League, and even crappy teams like Portsmouth and QPR started blowing up the market with ill-advised, overpriced signings. If Allardyce had never left I imagine we'd be finishing pretty much where his Blackburn and West Ham teams did. Lower mid-table, comfortably above relegation.

Not exactly the same as 6th-8th, but a hell of a lot better than Gartside and his subsequent picks have managed.