Concrete jungle where dreams are made of

[thebish]

is it just tiredness - or has lady-luck been papering over the cracks?

[TANGODANCER]

Reality check 237.

Neal Lennon hasn't changed that much in our player skill levels. What he's done is use the ones we have and changed their perspectives and attitudes around. Pratley and Trotter were all but ready for Cannery Row just a wee while back, yet now they're scoring. Last night, N.L had no money to spend, two classy playmakers, a defender and a promising front lad in the sick bay, no proven strikers available on the night due to injury and now, little but a hope that his ageing front two, Craig Davies, a borrowed Championship striker and some unknown imports from the loan warehouse that we haven't even seen yet can turn it all around from here on. Last night was a slip-up, having seen their goals, as much due to our carelessness as opponents good play. Their goals were taken, but not one was above Sunday League level in skill. Our defending wasn't even S.L level, our attack hardly troubling a relegation possibility team with no form. This from a team that held Liverpool at Anfield four days ago. Sickener, but not the end of the world. We need to regroup.

Last weekend proved what we can do, last night what we didn't. We need to buy into Lennon's attitude, starting with proving who the one and only wanderers really are on Saturday..

[malcd1]

I didn't go to the game so these observations are based on the highlights.

The first goal was a mess. First Ream gets dragged out of position, which must not happen when playing three at the back. Mills starts to cover for Ream and ends up in no-mans land. Dervite on the far side of the defense follows Derbyshire leaving the man coming in at the back post. Shambles.

The second goal Mills gets dragged out of the defense and never gets back. Ream makes a challenge for the ball and is out of position, leaving no one picking up Sammon to tap in from the rebound.

The third follows a counter attack from their box. Midfield is nowhere to be seen leaving six Rotherham players against our three.

The fourth is a good finish but the defenders back off and allow him the space and time to bring it to the edge of the box and blast it in.

With hindsight it was a mistake to play 3-5-2 last night but that is football. Lennon was warning about lethargy following the Liverpool game and he was right. We will need to play much better than that if we want something out of the Wolves game.

As DSB said, since Lennon arrived, the core of the players have a played most of the games. They looked tired.

[Dr Hotdog]

The second goal Mills gets dragged out of the defense and never gets back. Ream makes a challenge for the ball and is out of position, leaving no one picking up Sammon to tap in from the rebound.

Well, yes, but if the goalkeeper's starting position is the penalty spot then none of that happens and Rotherham have a throw-in on the halfway line.

Maybe I've been watching Manuel Neuer too much...

[StaffsTrotter]

The second goal Mills gets dragged out of the defense and never gets back. Ream makes a challenge for the ball and is out of position, leaving no one picking up Sammon to tap in from the rebound.

Well, yes, but if the goalkeeper's starting position is the penalty spot then none of that happens and Rotherham have a throw-in on the halfway line.

Maybe I've been watching Manuel Neuer too much...

Don't think you have, it was just a very poor piece of keeping - and I'm talking about simply dealing with that shot/cross, which doesn't involve setting Salmon up - rather than creating a long build up list of could've, should've, wouldv'e

[Prufrock]

Wow. Just watched the highlights. That were shit!

[Worthy4England]

The second goal Mills gets dragged out of the defense and never gets back. Ream makes a challenge for the ball and is out of position, leaving no one picking up Sammon to tap in from the rebound.

Well, yes, but if the goalkeeper's starting position is the penalty spot then none of that happens and Rotherham have a throw-in on the halfway line.

Maybe I've been watching Manuel Neuer too much...

Well in fairness, it isn't that you've been watching Bogdan too much - doubt very much, he'd have been out of his box on that one either...

[Hoboh]

As DSB said, since Lennon arrived, the core of the players have a played most of the games. They looked tired.

Sorry, I just don't buy the tired lark, never have done these are professionals who if they ain't fit enough to play 180 mins of football a week are taking money under false pretences.
How many tennis players play gruelling 5 setters then another a couple of days later and how many footballers are running for 90 mins? Certainly its a while a the Wanderers since any of the fcukers played more than 45 in a game and that's not been that often!

[Worthy4England]

As DSB said, since Lennon arrived, the core of the players have a played most of the games. They looked tired.

Sorry, I just don't buy the tired lark, never have done these are professionals who if they ain't fit enough to play 180 mins of football a week are taking money under false pretences.
How many tennis players play gruelling 5 setters then another a couple of days later and how many footballers are running for 90 mins? Certainly its a while a the Wanderers since any of the fcukers played more than 45 in a game and that's not been that often!

Surely it's not about the competence of the individual players only though? If our team plays 180 mins per week and their team plays 90 because they're not in the cup and rest more players than we have, then they clearly have more recovery time. It's not about whether they're "fit" or not, it's about whether they're at "peak" fitness or 50%

I don't buy the comparison with tennis at all. When you play someone at tennis, they've played the same amount of games in the tournament as you have - it still doesn't stop the commentators saying things like "Fred looked tired, because he had a 5 set match lasting 3.5 hours, whereas Jim rattled through in under an hour in straight sets"

[thebish]

it might be that it's like most things - a combination of factors...

I don't buy that it is ONLY tiredness... some of the stuff about defensive errors that has been described by those who were at the game SEEM to be about MORE then mere tiredness - as do comments about us "not wanting it"... Is our lack of attacking threat due to tiredness alone? I doubt it...

it does seem (at least anecdotally) true that we still very rarely manage a whole game playing well... is that tiredness? the lack of creativity and lack of goal-threat are persistent - that can't be just tiredness - and according to reports of people who went to the games - we have ridden our luck in more than one game defensively and could easily have lost games we have drawn...

[StaffsTrotter]

if only it were so easy as some on here would like to think.

hindsight is a wonderful thing. NL has almost been at the opposite end of player game time management to what we had under DF. It seems to have been working better.

In his post match, NL commented that perhaps he should have tried to freshen it up at bit more, but his options were limited and it seemed to me that he was praising the team, rather than berating. As ever people get analytical when we lose and want a reason/ to blame some-one. As noted above, theres a whole combination of factors at play, a lot of which are uncontrollable. Tiredness whether you define it physical or mental is one of them, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

[LeverEnd]

I think it was one if those Perfect Storm type scenarios, tiredness injuries snd people just llsying shit on the night. Plus our pretty average away form anyway and not forgetting a very motivated opposition at the top of their game ready to take advantage and bully us at every opportunity.
I don't expect to see us defend so poorly against wolves but am concerned about what we've (not) got going forward.

[Hoboh]

I think it was one if those Perfect Storm type scenarios, tiredness injuries snd people just llsying shit on the night. Plus our pretty average away form anyway and not forgetting a very motivated opposition at the top of their game ready to take advantage and bully us at every opportunity.
I don't expect to see us defend so poorly against wolves but am concerned about what we've (not) got going forward.

Do rather think the 'he' spoils your sig!
I worry when 'poor dears' like Wilkinson don't seem, as reported, to be doing anything and can hardly be tired get into the team!
3 at the back won't work with the flatfoots we have back there, more so without a decent sweeper or Campo!

[LeverEnd]

It's a quote from Alan Partridge about ladyboys, in no way a personal preference!!

[plymouth wanderer]

We were very very poor. Half hearted. Wilkinson looked like he couldn't be bothered. Didn't get off the floor for any headers. Gave the ball away easily. The ref was shocking. Two definite penalties, maybe even three. However, we did not deserve anything from the game. Rotherham wanted it. We did not. 874 away fans in good spirits. The 8000 home fans barely a sound all game. Not my favourite ground

i've heard excuses about being tired - but we can't excuse not wanting it.... (if, indeed, that's a true reflection of what happened...)

Lennon said we needed to make the most of these games and that we were only looking UP the table now...

This is good. We now have a lot more up we can look at, than if we'd won.

We're missing a whole squad load of attacking intent at the moment. PT mentioned Clayton and Mavies, but there's also Chungy, Cravies, one hit wonder Clough and Heskey although not quite In the same "creative" bracket maybe. Lot of players for a paper thin squad to be without...that's without including Alf and Rocheagles.

Yes forgot CYL but not deliberately - so yes I should have said without M Davies, Clayton & CYL we have zero midfield creativity - when I saw the line up tonight with Wilkinson & Kellett starting I thought we'd struggle, we really are down to the bare bones and I feel sorry for NL - all these injuries and not a pot to piss in, its sad really how fecking skint we are - and also sad that some senior decision makers within the club have made some seriously bum decisions over the years in regards to sanctioning some very average past signings on mind blowing wages with little accountability which have contributed to us being so skint.

Just imagine NL with the money available that Megson was allowed to spunk away.

Same here!! I Feel for Lennon in all

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I too would love to be able to see Lennon sign players as good as Mark Davies, Chungy and Cahill.

[Dr Hotdog]

I too would love to be able to see Lennon sign players as good as Mark Davies, Chungy and Cahill.

& Muamba.

[jaffka]

Shall we throw Dawson in as well so that duggie doesn't feel left out.

[bwfcdan94]

One highlight of a dreadful first half was a pissed up Dan wandering in after a few minutes and refusing to believe that we losing 1 nil. When the 2nd went in he realised I was telling the truth and buggered off!
Hope you took LLS's advice Dan and stayed on the decent ale.

Oh it was a pretty interesting day alright, brief(ish) summary:

4pm Puked down a ginnel in Mexborough(feck knows how I got there, I think I forgot to get off at Rotherham), I had had 9 ales by this point

5:30pm stumble into Rotherham Spoons(Rhinoceros I think) to meet a couple of the Horwich lads, have a Cider and A Smith's

7:50pm stumble into the ground, having lost my Horwich mates because I went to get a programme. I am waved over by LeverEnd, chat to his mate for 10 minutes (who I hadn't seen since Donnie away last year - it was the lads honeymoon that day), after being told it's 1-0 Rotherham I spend 5 minutes questioning whether he is telling the truth, when the second went in I f**ked off back to the concourse to get some food, didn't emerge again until 9ish by which point Rotherham were 4 up.


9:15pm stumble up the stairs to find my Horwich mates(this is where the fun starts), watch in delight as our first went in, 2 mins later the 2nd went in at which point my pal jumps down onto the row in front celebrating, I attempt to grab hold of him, but miss because he's run off down the stairs and do what can only be described as a swimming action for a good 3 seconds before I go over the top of the row of chairs, realising mid air that I was going to land on my noggin I put my right arm out and managed to turn my body mid air and land on my backside. Now on the floor I give a thumbs up to my other mate who was stood 3 rows behind me. I then calmly get up and have a chat with him about my fall.


11ish back at Rotherham station, 2 bottles of Angry Orchard Cider in hand, I open the first with my teeth as the train pulls in and am told by the guard as I'm about to get on something along the lines of "no bottles on train love", I proceed to down the whole bottle in front of her in 5 seconds, I then go onto the train having snuck the other bottle(which she didn't see) in my pocket, covered by my programme. When on the train I meet a dozen or so lads who are at York Uni, I spend the journey taking the piss out of myself and telling them that as their in their first year at Uni they should be taking every opportunity possible to drink and shag as often as possible.

I got off the train feeling the best I'd felt in ages, I can't remember the last time I had a group of people in stitches like that. They were probably laughing at me but who gives a f*ck.

Top day out, drank about 15 pints.

In a month I have gone from Teetotal to Pisshead. None the less I have managed to get into every away game this season and with the exception of Tuesday have seen all of the play.

TBH LeverEnd the state I was in when you saw me was probably the best I was between Midday and Midnight that day.

[LeverEnd]

And there was me thinking you'd just had a 1 or 2 more pre match than necessary. That story reminds me of the bloke in front of me at the 1999 Playoff Final against Watford, who wandered in absolutely hammered, then slumped forwards and slept through the entire match.
The lucky, lucky bastard!