We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:47 pm

Sponge wrote:Proper highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4BR5Fz ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cheers Sponge, much better.
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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by KeyserSoze » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:59 pm

that number 21 for them for Janko's goal...having a piss and moan after the ball hits the ref, then having a piss and moan after the goal's scored. Feck off.
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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by StaffsTrotter » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:17 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
jaffka wrote:That league table looks a lot better today than this time yesterday.
This doesn't though: 12,790 Oof! :shock:
and my one concern about our ability to keep/ enthuse lennon in us as a project is the response of our fans turning up. he probably was used to that many at celtic reserves !

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:48 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:that number 21 for them for Janko's goal...having a piss and moan after the ball hits the ref, then having a piss and moan after the goal's scored. Feck off.
I thought he had a bit of a point tbh, from looking at the replay. Clearly there was a way to go from when the ref got in the road and prior to us scoring, so they're not directly connected - but I'd have probably had a moan too. Didn't really spot it last night.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by TKIZ! » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:36 pm

Re the Ref getting in the way, it happens to every team. I can think of a couple of times this season for us.
Pfffft.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by KeyserSoze » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:34 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:that number 21 for them for Janko's goal...having a piss and moan after the ball hits the ref, then having a piss and moan after the goal's scored. Feck off.
I thought he had a bit of a point tbh, from looking at the replay. Clearly there was a way to go from when the ref got in the road and prior to us scoring, so they're not directly connected - but I'd have probably had a moan too. Didn't really spot it last night.
Might have at least hassled Vela if he hadn't been moaning initially!

I just think it's so...pointless? I mean what can he do? A bit like shouting at the corner flag for stopping the ball from going out of play.
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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Peter Thompson » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:55 pm

StaffsTrotter wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:
jaffka wrote:That league table looks a lot better today than this time yesterday.
This doesn't though: 12,790 Oof! :shock:
and my one concern about our ability to keep/ enthuse lennon in us as a project is the response of our fans turning up. he probably was used to that many at celtic reserves !
I'm as guilty as anyone for stopping going under Freedman, but I can't understand anyone who lives within an hour of the Macron now not going under NL, its actually enjoyable and the football is much better to watch.

I actually thought (being a typical stay away under DF) that as I had decided to return under NL that thousands of others would - but it just hasn't happened, so I'll throw it out to the fans on here - what is the reason why you still haven't returned to the Macron, if its financial I understand but for the others ?

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:20 am

I think we averaged around 16k last time we got promoted? So not sure it's untypical, regardless of who the manager is, or what the football you're playing is like. Our average attendance under Freedman wasn't untypical of last time we were in the 1st Division (as was).

We'd al most certainly lose more fans in the 3rd tier and averaged about 5k in our tier 4 year. The reality is, that the football isn't imo as good in the Championship. I know that sounds like "No shit Sherlock", but the difference is dramatic. That's not to say it can't generate excitement, but it does so at a significantly reduced standard. I'm a ST holder, but some weeks, even when we've won, it seems like a chore. Trying to find a Brentford fan at work to discuss the match with isn't half as easy as finding a Liverpool fan, last week....

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by a1 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:18 am

Peter Thompson wrote:
I'm as guilty as anyone for stopping going under Freedman, but I can't understand anyone who lives within an hour of the Macron now not going under NL, its actually enjoyable and the football is much better to watch.

I actually thought (being a typical stay away under DF) that as I had decided to return under NL that thousands of others would - but it just hasn't happened, so I'll throw it out to the fans on here - what is the reason why you still haven't returned to the Macron, if its financial I understand but for the others ?
can't you figure out this from when megson left and coyle arrived ? possibly from you actually did 3-5-whatever years ago ?

how about..

A, getting pissed off w/ the booing from the megson outers and claiming that he made the crowds dip ignores that it actually started under peak allardyce. Also, the biggest dip probably occured when fan favourite/legend/humancymbalsmonkey owen coyle relegated them. "anyone but megson (or whoever)" is never true.

B, folk lying going "the worst start in 100 years" disillusions folk thatve seen 'em in division 4

C, todd moaning about not having money and then quitting when they had to sell frandsen from underneath him to keep the baliffs out after spending all our money on shite , like he were Gilbert And George completist, and got us relegated/then not promoted anyway..

.. possibly

i like lennon* and all , but if freedman had subbed clough for trotter vs liverpool, notrights wouldve been out in force^H^H^H^H typing shit on the internet.

*he'dve bin my all time favourite if tonight he'dve told that shit-stirring gang of pricks at Radio5 to feck off.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by danardif1 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:40 am

There are only a few clubs in the country that would continue to fill their grounds once out of the Premier League, and most of them are still in it right now...

Our all-time highest attendance at the 'Bok/'Cron was the 2-2 draw vs Leicester back in 2003 (I was actually at that game... Christmas visit to the homeland from Germany), and that was still 400 short of filling the ground. So it's not whether we can fill the stadium that is the main issue because frankly we can't, it's just too big.

But to be at around half that level is just indicative of how people feel about football nowadays... that it's too expensive (we're actually not THAT expensive a club to see, but as a whole) and the second tier isn't as popular as it's made out to be... It's almost like getting Premier League football spoils the fans too much and anything less than that is not enough to warrant going to the ground for, which is why well-run clubs like Brentford and Bournemouth have small-but-full grounds... they haven't been tainted by the expectation that Premier League football brings.

Lancashire clubs are always going to suffer nowadays with the pull of the two megabucks Manchester clubs... who they can see on TV every weekend and midweek in Europe. Look at how Blackburn are struggling to get fans through as well, and well Wigan has always had empty stands because it's a Rugby town but they've dipped after going down too.

People just have become too disillusioned with the game and clubs like ours will suffer for it. I think most clubs at our level need to fundamentally change their approach to the live crowd and how they generate interest.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Vertigo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:35 am

Weeknights generally pull less of a crowd than the weekend right? The atmosphere has been better recently up until the last game.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by SmokinFrazier » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:08 am

For me, the biggest issue is getting to and from the stadium. It's not that the roads aren't fine or the public transport isn't good enough, it's just the amount of time it takes out of your day to go and watch a match, especially in midweek. The tickets are too expensive but I'm not going to moan about that, the real issue for me is how much time it takes to go and from the ground. It's probably going to take me closer to 4 hours to watch a home game and that's just too long. If I could do it all in under 3 hours, I'd attend far more games but it's big investment of time to attend regular home games. I'm a young(ish :() lad with a girlfriend too, so I don't know how people with families get on but, yeah, it's difficult to fit many matches in.

I do feel bad whenever I don't attend though, especially now under Lenny. I wish attendances were a lot higher, just so we could give the players an extra boost and show the manager that we're behind the team.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by StaffsTrotter » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:14 am

danardif1 wrote:There are only a few clubs in the country that would continue to fill their grounds once out of the Premier League, and most of them are still in it right now...

Our all-time highest attendance at the 'Bok/'Cron was the 2-2 draw vs Leicester back in 2003 (I was actually at that game... Christmas visit to the homeland from Germany), and that was still 400 short of filling the ground. So it's not whether we can fill the stadium that is the main issue because frankly we can't, it's just too big.

But to be at around half that level is just indicative of how people feel about football nowadays... that it's too expensive (we're actually not THAT expensive a club to see, but as a whole) and the second tier isn't as popular as it's made out to be... It's almost like getting Premier League football spoils the fans too much and anything less than that is not enough to warrant going to the ground for, which is why well-run clubs like Brentford and Bournemouth have small-but-full grounds... they haven't been tainted by the expectation that Premier League football brings.

Lancashire clubs are always going to suffer nowadays with the pull of the two megabucks Manchester clubs... who they can see on TV every weekend and midweek in Europe. Look at how Blackburn are struggling to get fans through as well, and well Wigan has always had empty stands because it's a Rugby town but they've dipped after going down too.

People just have become too disillusioned with the game and clubs like ours will suffer for it. I think most clubs at our level need to fundamentally change their approach to the live crowd and how they generate interest.
I suppose it about expectations. I don't expect to fill the ground but for a club of our recent relative success, I'm surprised we can't get 16-20k home supporters regularly. There will always be a 1001 reasons/ excuses, but one that gets my goat is the PL one. Notwithstanding the kudos and glamour, were the games really that more exciting and 'better' ?.

I think all of the managers since Sam have commented on our support. I imagine as a manager is must be slightly disheartening if you are putting sheds loads of effort in and no bugger turns up, particularly if like NL you seem (genuinely) as though you want to enagage with and value the role of the fans

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Peter Thompson » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:41 am

StaffsTrotter wrote: I suppose it about expectations. I don't expect to fill the ground but for a club of our recent relative success, I'm surprised we can't get 16-20k home supporters regularly. There will always be a 1001 reasons/ excuses, but one that gets my goat is the PL one. Notwithstanding the kudos and glamour, were the games really that more exciting and 'better' ?.

I think all of the managers since Sam have commented on our support. I imagine as a manager is must be slightly disheartening if you are putting sheds loads of effort in and no bugger turns up, particularly if like NL you seem (genuinely) as though you want to enagage with and value the role of the fans
I agree with much of this....I don't think anyone is expecting any sell outs, but I thought now with the improvement that NL has made (the actual style of football is entertaining most of the time, as we do try to play attacking football when possible) that perhaps 3 or 4 thousand 'stay away's may return - in our position I think that we should be able to get around 17,000 home fans on a regular basis.

Personally I think that when you stop getting a ST, and start to pick and choose games its very easy to give it a miss if its cold, wet & windy or its Fulham on a Tuesday night, and I also think that cost does become an issue when your paying full price for each game (sometimes two home games a week) - I think our ST's are value for money and once you've paid out it's less likely that you'll give the un attractive games a miss.

The fans do really need to start to back NL if they physically & financially can, as most think that we'll have a decent chance of challenging for promotion next season and bigger crowds and better atmospheres do seem to spur the team on (personally I don't agree with this - they should give 110% whether there is 2,000 on or 20,000) - but it does have an effect and it also brings much needed additional revenue to the club

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Enoch » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:57 am

StaffsTrotter wrote:one that gets my goat is the PL one.
Me too.

To my mind you either support a team or you don't. Easy to turn out when it's all going your way.

Takes me nearly two days to do a home game.

I like to avoid the fan boy fixtures.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 pm

StaffsTrotter wrote:
danardif1 wrote:There are only a few clubs in the country that would continue to fill their grounds once out of the Premier League, and most of them are still in it right now...

Our all-time highest attendance at the 'Bok/'Cron was the 2-2 draw vs Leicester back in 2003 (I was actually at that game... Christmas visit to the homeland from Germany), and that was still 400 short of filling the ground. So it's not whether we can fill the stadium that is the main issue because frankly we can't, it's just too big.

But to be at around half that level is just indicative of how people feel about football nowadays... that it's too expensive (we're actually not THAT expensive a club to see, but as a whole) and the second tier isn't as popular as it's made out to be... It's almost like getting Premier League football spoils the fans too much and anything less than that is not enough to warrant going to the ground for, which is why well-run clubs like Brentford and Bournemouth have small-but-full grounds... they haven't been tainted by the expectation that Premier League football brings.

Lancashire clubs are always going to suffer nowadays with the pull of the two megabucks Manchester clubs... who they can see on TV every weekend and midweek in Europe. Look at how Blackburn are struggling to get fans through as well, and well Wigan has always had empty stands because it's a Rugby town but they've dipped after going down too.

People just have become too disillusioned with the game and clubs like ours will suffer for it. I think most clubs at our level need to fundamentally change their approach to the live crowd and how they generate interest.
I suppose it about expectations. I don't expect to fill the ground but for a club of our recent relative success, I'm surprised we can't get 16-20k home supporters regularly. There will always be a 1001 reasons/ excuses, but one that gets my goat is the PL one. Notwithstanding the kudos and glamour, were the games really that more exciting and 'better' ?.

I think all of the managers since Sam have commented on our support. I imagine as a manager is must be slightly disheartening if you are putting sheds loads of effort in and no bugger turns up, particularly if like NL you seem (genuinely) as though you want to enagage with and value the role of the fans
We're averaging around 15,600 this season (which currently has us about 16th in the attendance table) - so just below your low estimate. The average attendance in the Chump is 17,700. The game on Tuesday came on the back of two FA Cup games which needed coughing for and aways at Rotherham/Derby which needed coughing for - you'd have had to pay hard cash even if you were a ST holder for 5 of our last 7 games. That's probably the best part of £120-£150 nicker, without travel, without any food/beer etc. etc. I suspect there were very few that went to all 5.

The "excuse" that it's better in the Prem may well get your goat, but often, even if we were having an off-day, there's decent talent on the other side - there were absolutely some shoite games in the Prem - I can think of a few against Fulham at home - one of which I fcked off from at HT, it was that poor - neither side showed much of anything football wise and weren't going to score if they played for a fortnight (it ended 0-0 and in fairness I did have manflu). I don't actually expect to be in the Prem League, having watched us for best part of 40 years - the fact is, that we clearly cost Eddie Davies a lot of cash and that was unsustainable before FFP, but the enthusiasm to get motivated to watch Okocha, Djorkaeff, Stelios, Campo, Joof, Speed etc. was much easier than it is to head out and watch Trotter, Ream, Dannsy, a hundred year old Gudjohnsen etc. Yes, there are some exciting games - but at a standard generally quite a lot lower.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:13 pm

Meanwhile, we're just two days off Watford and there's a gap (booo) where the match thread should be....anybody?
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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by bobo the clown » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:17 pm

Edging perilously close to the "I'm a better fan than you" pissing contest here.

It's simple enough to explain Tuesday's low attendance .... 2 previous extra matches which had to be paid for, two very uninspiring away league games preceding it, a fckg cold Tuesday, playing against our bogie team who we all agreed we hadn't beaten in any competition since the early 1930's.

I am thoroughly convinced that in Lenin we have a good manager, potentially a great one but ..... and I've thought of this a lot recently .... the damage done to my enthusiasm for football in general by the club's over-long persistence with the previous gob-shite was longer lasting and deeper than I expected. I'd have anticipated that once he went, especially replaced by this one, I'd have simply shifted gear and slotted straight back into it.

But I haven't. I can't say why and, whilst apparently absolved from PT's wrath as I do live a little over an hour way, I've been able and willing far too easily to say "no ... I won't other today".

I hope that's alright.
Last edited by bobo the clown on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Enoch » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:33 pm

Sounds like a fan boy to me.

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Re: We've got Nat. Don't bring Michael Jackson...Fulham Home

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:04 pm

Oh, might as well throw this in here - I've got bugger all chance of getting to Saturday's game. I still haven't been forgiven for taking the missus to the Atletico match on Valentines Day - did the Exec Silver Service bit as well.

Bugger all chance of me gaining a foothold to see Watford. :-)

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