Wigan, away.

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by LeverEnd » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:02 pm

Just seen the goal, patheitc weak defending on the near post from Ream, several players watching rather than challenging as Waghorn scores. This a squad of losers and needs to be completely changed.
...

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Hoboh » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:57 pm

WE DIDN'T LOSE!

Win your homers, draw away = success.

Lot of work to be done, no hiding that, too many sloppy goals given away, I'd bet Lennon is breathing fire right now but has to temper it with what he's got.

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by a1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:00 pm

reams crap, should be getting knight level callings from the dicks. but they dont wanna appear racist or xenophobic or summat.

drops too many bollocks

fecking mcfarland todd level of shit defending lately , still have nightmares over that.

boo

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by thebish » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:06 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:Nowt to do with Lennon! piss poor character
it's a game of opinions I suppose - and that's what forums are for - but i don't quite buy that it's nowt to do with Lennon. That's not to say we should sack lennon or that it is entirely his fault or even mostly his fault or that i want any of his predecessors (except BigSam) back - but this cvonceding late goals habit whether it now be psychological or to do with not being fit enough to defend past 88mins - HAS to have at least something to do with lennon - at the very least it's his issue to sort out - that's what we pay him for - he's the manager - he's where the buck stops.
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by bobo the clown » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:16 pm

^^ Well, to be honest Bish you've fence-sat about Lennon from the very beginning. More a case of contraryism than anything else. But at every point you've inferred that other people's faith is maybe unfounded and that we'll all be eating humble pie sooner or later. At least you've finally got off that fence ... a bit ... maybe. I hope the splinters aren't too deep-set.

There is f'call he can do about letting in injury-time goals times in 12 games. That is down to players doing what they should, keeping their heads and clearing their lines. That's down to character and concentration.
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by a1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:39 pm

a, zat knight shouldve headed it clear instead of ducking under the ball.
b. megson out
c. freedman out
d. we're not winning , but i'd rather be in division 4 with a legend like coyle than this clueless bastard.
e, ream'll come good once he gets a few games.
f. come read my soccer blog i wrote in a sweatshop while being poked with sticks by jimmy wales.
g. Gartside should work for free
h. they should buy messi

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by thebish » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:45 pm

bobo the clown wrote:^^ Well, to be honest Bish you've fence-sat about Lennon from the very beginning. More a case of contraryism than anything else. But at every point you've inferred that other people's faith is maybe unfounded and that we'll all be eating humble pie sooner or later. At least you've finally got off that fence ... a bit ... maybe. I hope the splinters aren't too deep-set.

There is f'call he can do about letting in injury-time goals times in 12 games. That is down to players doing what they should, keeping their heads and clearing their lines. That's down to character and concentration.

wrong. I have said many times I think Lenny is the right man for the job. that is not the same as thinking he will easily get us promoted or to the playoffs next season.

i don't think it is controversial to say that a repeated pattern in our play IS at least something to do with the manager - a more modest and unconfrontational way of saying it I could not find!
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by plymouth wanderer » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:52 pm

bobo the clown wrote:^^ Well, to be honest Bish you've fence-sat about Lennon from the very beginning. More a case of contraryism than anything else. But at every point you've inferred that other people's faith is maybe unfounded and that we'll all be eating humble pie sooner or later. At least you've finally got off that fence ... a bit ... maybe. I hope the splinters aren't too deep-set.

There is f'call he can do about letting in injury-time goals times in 12 games. That is down to players doing what they should, keeping their heads and clearing their lines. That's down to character and concentration.

Sorry bish........ agree whole heartly with Bobo. Every man and his dog knows we concede late goals for fun.(I'd say it buoys the opposition somewhat) You do everything in your power to stop them from scoring. Up and at um! Leave everything on the pitch! Body's on the line type of thing. That's the sort of manager lennon is! Some of our players arnt lennons sort of players...... Least that's what I see when I read between the lines.

I feel for the man!
Last edited by plymouth wanderer on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:53 pm

throwawayboltonian wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:If N.L decided to leave, could we blame him? What utter rubbish. And now.....they get a throw and...mic man is getting on my nerves. Is he a Wiganer? That's it. Crap and Out.
To be honest, no. But then again I can't see that happening because he joined us to prove a point that he can do a job south of the border (something he's made no effort to hide) and leaving with us in this position would hardly raise his stock by any siginificant amount. He's done well to turn us around from DF, but it's hardly the gold star he wants. Unless a bigger club swoops for him of course.

And balls to these last few minute goals... :(
My point was how pxssed off N.L must feel right now. In his place I'd be appopletic. These guys are getting paid a lot of money every week for a job they're not doing. Losing happens, that's life. Losing or drawing in the last five minutes on a regular basis is ridiculous. I'm betting every team in our league is told, "Don't give up, Bolton are renowned for folding in the last couple of minutes." If anyone in any employ did that badly on a regular basis they'd be out of a job. We got outplayed, had half-a-dozen serious let-offs' and scored a deflected goal to finish up with one point. Yes, I'd be pretty fed up if I was Neil Lennon.
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Jonah » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:02 pm

If we get in the top ten next season we will have done well. There will be decent teams who miss out on going up this year and three string teams on their way down . There's quite a gap in quality between top 7 and the rest already in the championship.
Ream just should not play in a back three otherwise he's back to being to mentally physically weak player we signed in the first place . If he plays with a 3 again I'd hope dervite gets the third spot and I suspect he will .
Anyway there's a break now. Itll all be sorted in time for the Blackpool win :)

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Jugs » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:05 pm

I have some sympathy for Bish. If this was Freedman in charge, with his team conceding late goal after late goal, he'd have been lynched.

I didn't see or listen to the game, but Moxey thrown on for the last few mins? After Lennon talked about the senior players being too weak to see the game out?

Also, are we witnessing Dougie-esque levels of squad rotation here or is there another reason why Coke plays 90mins against Ipswich, only to not even get into today's squad? Same thing happened with Bannan recently, while Eidur couldn't even get a minute today. Vela out too.

I'm not saying I'm not with Lennon - I am - but Trotter full game? People on here keep saying 'he's giving Trotter one more chance.' No, he isn't. You said that 20 games ago. Trotter isn't in the last chance saloon. Lennon sees something in him.

I'm with Lennon, but he's got a lot to sort out for next season.

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Enoch » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:12 pm

In Lennon's first 15 league games we conceded a dozen goals and the new regime were lauded for the transformation.

The next 13 have yielded 28 and the coaching staff bear no responsibility!

We like Lennon, in some way he pleases the eye, makes us feel good, so it must be the players at fault.

To consider otherwise as a possibility would be ridiculous.


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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Prufrock » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:19 pm

Coaching staff HAVE to take some blame for the sheer number of late goals we've suddenly started conceded. It's beyond a joke. Yes the players are a set of spineless shitcunts but they have been for five years and these same coaches had them defending properly. In light of the injury crisis, to be getting in positions where we should be winning games is decent, but having got there, we should be winning them.
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by thebish » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:24 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:
bobo the clown wrote:^^ Well, to be honest Bish you've fence-sat about Lennon from the very beginning. More a case of contraryism than anything else. But at every point you've inferred that other people's faith is maybe unfounded and that we'll all be eating humble pie sooner or later. At least you've finally got off that fence ... a bit ... maybe. I hope the splinters aren't too deep-set.

There is f'call he can do about letting in injury-time goals times in 12 games. That is down to players doing what they should, keeping their heads and clearing their lines. That's down to character and concentration.

Sorry bish........ agree whole heartly with Bobo. Every man and his dog knows we concede late goals for fun.(I'd say it buoys the opposition somewhat) You do everything in your power to stop them from scoring. Up and at um! Leave everything on the pitch! Body's on the line type of thing. That's the sort of manager lennon is! Some of our players arnt lennons sort of players...... Least that's what I see when I read between the lines.

I feel for the man!
fair enough - it's a big wide world of opinions... I feel for him too... 8) and - no need to apologise! you have every bit as much a right to say what you think as I have.

It just doesn't work for me to say it is nothing at all to do with the manager when it is such an obvious trait of our recent play... he has what he has to work with - that's not great - but it's his job to work with it and get the best out of it.. we haven't the luxury of getting a whole new team of better players - no cash - and it's not good enough (as some have said) to say that it is just a hex (whatever that is)...

there may not be MUCH that lenny can do - i just don't buy that a problem like this is nothing to do with the manager... it's what BWFCi used to claim about dougie - it's just the players - nowt to do with the manager, he droned on... I disagreed with BWFCi - and i still do...

i think Lenny is the man for the job - I supported his arrival and you won't find me calling for his sacking any time soon - whatever happens next season... I think he is probably head and shoulders better than pretty much any manager we could have attracted given our position at the time he was appointed. i just don't think that supporting a manager involves (probably speaking more to Bobo now) having to think that everything he does or says or poos out of his arse is greatsmashingsuper... sometimes he gets stuff wrong - and he will continue to get stuff wrong... it's OK to say that... it is not simply "contrarian" to call it as you see it - it's merely realistic to realise that no manager is perfect in everything he does/says and no manager is utterly irredeemably shoite in everything he does/says... that's a tiresome binary world to live in.

he's getting summat wrong or he's missing a trick somewhere with this whole late goals saga - as are the players... i don't think we should just accept it cos that's just the way we are...
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Jonah » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:26 pm

The 5 loans rule limits selections and may be why coke wasn't involved. Trotter hasn't been fit most of the time lennon has been here and lennon said he rated him when he arrived . He is on a contract so it makes sense to see if he can start putting performances together . I guess it took a while and a lot of puzzled fans before pratley clicked but pratleys work rate was always a redeeming feature even before he started to hit the net and get some belief . Trotter is a different type of player but if he hasn't been properly fit until now then he should be given a few games . Of course had danns not been banned he may well not have had these two starts .
This is still a very transitional period . Lennon , to me , usually appears to at least be doing things that make sense. There is at least a sense of direction and a bit of flexibility in approach . How good a manager he is will be clearer a year from now .
Not sure how you coach players to maintain focus though . Allardyce used to employ the shrinks and put great store in that side of things . The late goal thing does seem to be a mental issue. What else can it be ?

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Prufrock » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:32 pm

It happened under Allardyce and he fixed it. Hopefully Lennon can too. Am convinced Lennon is the best we've had since Allardyce and that he will...though I got v excited about Coyle and to a lesser extent Freedman too, so what do I know...
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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by twilight » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:39 pm

Went to the game today. We were absolutely dire. I was a bit put out when I saw the team sheet wondering why Lennon was insisting on having a back three again (we are not good enough to have a back 3 - we looked very exposed). Those 3 defenders at the back in the first half worked tirelessly and they werent helped by Trotter in the middle. Heskey worked hard up front and Rochinha was good first half and Ben Amos kept us in the game.
Second half and we were worse!!

We went one up which was a lucky deflection and any other team you would think that was job done, but we sat back and sat back and you just knew we would concede.

Lennon was going absolutely mad on the touchline telling everybody to push forward but the players weren't listening, it seems as if they just freeze.

Man of the match for me was Amos, made some excellent saves and one worldie one. But for him we would have lost that match.
P.S. and Trotter is one hell of a crap player, I think he touched the ball maybe half a dozen times at the most!!

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by Jonah » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:43 pm

Prufrock wrote:It happened under Allardyce and he fixed it. Hopefully Lennon can too. Am convinced Lennon is the best we've had since Allardyce and that he will...though I got v excited about Coyle and to a lesser extent Freedman too, so what do I know...
Me too pru ! But I think there's a bit more substance to our latest management set up . Lennon doesn't appear delusion and isn't showing any signs of depressive symptoms yet .

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by StaffsTrotter » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:49 pm

sure its frustrating but get a grip.

in terms of the matches we've conceded late, think it would be interesting to see our personnel - I expect there will be a fair number and mix of players, so I can't see they are all afflicted by some mental or physical fear of the last 5 mins (altho they will start to be, the more it happens)

in terms of the matches I've seen, where we've conceded I've not seen any partic pattern e.g. dropping back en masse to the 18yd line for the last 10 mins. Only been to half of the games (and just the goals for the other), but what I've seen is a whole range of goals - some nothing you can do (Wolves) and others from penalty box ping pong that any manager would say they are disappointed by

a lot of people on here were pessimistic before this match. I've not seen it, but from the accounts of people who were there, we were lucky to get a point. If that was the case I'd be more disappointed with the performance. A win would have been great but not getting beat was essential.

In terms of the Lennon point, sure he'll be frustrated, like us all. But he is the manager and to my view should stand or fall with his team. At the start of this sequence he was basically saying he was at a loss to explain, the guys were fit, they were being trained etc, so perhaps it was mental. This has then progressed onto it is mental weakness and singling out of individuals (Rob Hall), which may have been a motivational ploy, but IMO he has let himself down a bit and should have kept it more in house.

This late goal sequence has been a pretty incredible, but I'm fatalistic about it - it'll go as mysteriously as it appeared altho I'm starting to wonder whether those Thai takeover guys were actually a betting syndicate asking for some favours

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Re: Wigan, away.

Post by plymouth wanderer » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:50 pm

thebish wrote:
plymouth wanderer wrote:
bobo the clown wrote:^^ Well, to be honest Bish you've fence-sat about Lennon from the very beginning. More a case of contraryism than anything else. But at every point you've inferred that other people's faith is maybe unfounded and that we'll all be eating humble pie sooner or later. At least you've finally got off that fence ... a bit ... maybe. I hope the splinters aren't too deep-set.

There is f'call he can do about letting in injury-time goals times in 12 games. That is down to players doing what they should, keeping their heads and clearing their lines. That's down to character and concentration.

Sorry bish........ agree whole heartly with Bobo. Every man and his dog knows we concede late goals for fun.(I'd say it buoys the opposition somewhat) You do everything in your power to stop them from scoring. Up and at um! Leave everything on the pitch! Body's on the line type of thing. That's the sort of manager lennon is! Some of our players arnt lennons sort of players...... Least that's what I see when I read between the lines.

I feel for the man!
fair enough - it's a big wide world of opinions... I feel for him too... 8) and - no need to apologise! you have every bit as much a right to say what you think as I have.

It just doesn't work for me to say it is nothing at all to do with the manager when it is such an obvious trait of our recent play... he has what he has to work with - that's not great - but it's his job to work with it and get the best out of it.. we haven't the luxury of getting a whole new team of better players - no cash - and it's not good enough (as some have said) to say that it is just a hex (whatever that is)...

there may not be MUCH that lenny can do - i just don't buy that a problem like this is nothing to do with the manager... it's what BWFCi used to claim about dougie - it's just the players - nowt to do with the manager, he droned on... I disagreed with BWFCi - and i still do...

i think Lenny is the man for the job - I supported his arrival and you won't find me calling for his sacking any time soon - whatever happens next season... I think he is probably head and shoulders better than pretty much any manager we could have attracted given our position at the time he was appointed. i just don't think that supporting a manager involves (probably speaking more to Bobo now) having to think that everything he does or says or poos out of his arse is greatsmashingsuper... sometimes he gets stuff wrong - and he will continue to get stuff wrong... it's OK to say that... it is not simply "contrarian" to call it as you see it - it's merely realistic to realise that no manager is perfect in everything he does/says and no manager is utterly irredeemably shoite in everything he does/says... that's a tiresome binary world to live in.

he's getting summat wrong or he's missing a trick somewhere with this whole late goals saga - as are the players... i don't think we should just accept it cos that's just the way we are...

Opinions are like assholes :D........ .

I did say it off the cuff as it's so damn frustrating! It IMO certainly ain't black and white like someone said. I get what your saying bish-i really do. Lennons still got alot to prove but conceding goals in the last few minutes so often has to be a mental/character issue!? If it wasn't (few games ago) then it blood well Is now.

One thing I will knock him for is the formation! But I don't think that it's to blame for conceding from a corner

If this time next year we are conceding like we are now and in the same position (with Lennons players) I'd be calling for him to be sacked

You say.....Lennons job is- getting the best out of what we got- well I reckon this is.......excluding the injury crisis of course!
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