For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Coyle paid £3m for marvelous Marvin - on the promise of his "potential"

No, Coyle paid £3m for Marvin because he's a clueless dick.

He also paid over the odds because other teams were interested. Like they are with Holding. As AT said, we do hold some cards: he doesn't necessarily want to leave, there's competition for his signature if he does, and according to the men running the club we don't "need" to sell.

[Dr Hotdog]

Didn't Arsenal pinch Kyle Bartley from our Academy a fair few years ago? We need to hold firm and dictate the deal to suit us.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

He also paid over the odds because other teams were interested.

Very true, I just can't get past how useless Coyle really was.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He also paid over the odds because other teams were interested.

Very true, I just can't get past how useless Coyle really was.

Note the use of "also". You won't find me disagreeing with your premise there, AT...

[thebish]

In which case your hopes aren't ambitious enough!

I hope we get £50M and have him loaned back for the year....

I have enough hope to keep me going, thanks!

[thebish]

Didn't Arsenal pinch Kyle Bartley from our Academy a fair few years ago? We need to hold firm and dictate the deal to suit us.

YES! YES! YES!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

He also paid over the odds because other teams were interested.

Very true, I just can't get past how useless Coyle really was.

Note the use of "also". You won't find me disagreeing with your premise there, AT...

[BWFC_Insane]

We want £7m for Holding, says Iles in the BN. Arsenal offered £2m bonused up to £5m.

I kinda hope we hold out for that. Arsenal - they can afford it - and they have hoovered up talent all over the world for peanuts... it's about time someone other than them benefited... they're about to be given a cheque for umpteen squillion quid - if they want our talent, they can pay for it... stingy blousers...

We aren't in a position of strength and frankly if we get £3M for Holding it will be an excellent deal at this stage. He's played 20 odd games in a losing side. He looks very good yes, but so have many over a similar period before falling away.

Be lovely to screw Arsenal but equally they know we're not in a position of stength. We didn't even manage that when we were in the premiership.

You'd be a really shit salesman!

We have something Arsenal want and there is a demand for that something. If Arsenal really want that something then we hold all the cards and it's down to KA to take them as far as he can without scaring them off. Given his past job, I'd say he should be fairly good at judging that.

There is no way the lad is worth 7m right now, but he might in a few years be worth a lot more. If we can get a few million up front and lots of add-ons then I'm all for it.

We had a proven premiership centre half they wanted. We were a premiership side. Arsenal still wouldn't budge and pay what we wanted and he ended up going to Chelsea for £7M.

Now we are a league one side, potentially needing the cash to stay afloat for a player who's played 3/4 of a season at championship level. Yes he's in demand. He's also a free agent in a year and can go for a tribunal level fee. If they offered £3m up front I'd snatch their hands off.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

And how much has the income of Premier clubs, particularly Arsenal, gone up? And is the manager under more pressure?

[Bruce Rioja]

We want £7m for Holding, says Iles in the BN. Arsenal offered £2m bonused up to £5m.

I kinda hope we hold out for that. Arsenal - they can afford it - and they have hoovered up talent all over the world for peanuts... it's about time someone other than them benefited... they're about to be given a cheque for umpteen squillion quid - if they want our talent, they can pay for it... stingy blousers...

We aren't in a position of strength and frankly if we get £3M for Holding it will be an excellent deal at this stage. He's played 20 odd games in a losing side. He looks very good yes, but so have many over a similar period before falling away.

Be lovely to screw Arsenal but equally they know we're not in a position of stength. We didn't even manage that when we were in the premiership.

You'd be a really shit salesman!

We have something Arsenal want and there is a demand for that something. If Arsenal really want that something then we hold all the cards and it's down to KA to take them as far as he can without scaring them off. Given his past job, I'd say he should be fairly good at judging that.

There is no way the lad is worth 7m right now, but he might in a few years be worth a lot more. If we can get a few million up front and lots of add-ons then I'm all for it.

We had a proven premiership centre half they wanted. We were a premiership side. Arsenal still wouldn't budge and pay what we wanted and he ended up going to Chelsea for £7M.

Now we are a league one side, potentially needing the cash to stay afloat for a player who's played 3/4 of a season at championship level. Yes he's in demand. He's also a free agent in a year and can go for a tribunal level fee. If they offered £3m up front I'd snatch their hands off.

If you were a trout you'd be the first on the bank. Us/Holding = seller's market!

[Enoch]

Mmmm, trout.

[thebish]

Now we are a league one side, potentially needing the cash to stay afloat for a player who's played 3/4 of a season at championship level. Yes he's in demand. He's also a free agent in a year and can go for a tribunal level fee. If they offered £3m up front I'd snatch their hands off.

just dripping this stuff into sentences doesn't make it true!

[Prufrock]

Makes it potentially true though!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

We want £7m for Holding, says Iles in the BN. Arsenal offered £2m bonused up to £5m.

I kinda hope we hold out for that. Arsenal - they can afford it - and they have hoovered up talent all over the world for peanuts... it's about time someone other than them benefited... they're about to be given a cheque for umpteen squillion quid - if they want our talent, they can pay for it... stingy blousers...

We aren't in a position of strength and frankly if we get £3M for Holding it will be an excellent deal at this stage. He's played 20 odd games in a losing side. He looks very good yes, but so have many over a similar period before falling away.

Be lovely to screw Arsenal but equally they know we're not in a position of stength. We didn't even manage that when we were in the premiership.

You'd be a really shit salesman!

We have something Arsenal want and there is a demand for that something. If Arsenal really want that something then we hold all the cards and it's down to KA to take them as far as he can without scaring them off. Given his past job, I'd say he should be fairly good at judging that.

There is no way the lad is worth 7m right now, but he might in a few years be worth a lot more. If we can get a few million up front and lots of add-ons then I'm all for it.

We had a proven premiership centre half they wanted. We were a premiership side. Arsenal still wouldn't budge and pay what we wanted and he ended up going to Chelsea for £7M.

Now we are a league one side, potentially needing the cash to stay afloat for a player who's played 3/4 of a season at championship level. Yes he's in demand. He's also a free agent in a year and can go for a tribunal level fee. If they offered £3m up front I'd snatch their hands off.

And if they don't snap him up now then someone else might, which would be no use to Arsenal in a years time. We hold the cards and it's a question of how much they want him and the value they place on it. It's a bit like yer iPhone. You can have any phone you want, but if you want the iPhone then you pay what Apple want for it. I've more confidence in KA extracting a price than I did in PG. I don't have much faith in KA, but the one area I think he knows what he's doing is negotiating deals. Cahill was different in that we took the 7m or waited a few months and got nothing. He was going no matter what. Holding doesn't seem to be in any hurry to leave, we have months before the transfer window shuts and there is another one before his contract is up. Short of an injury or complete loss of form, I can only see Holdings value going up.

Cheer up. For once we're in a good position. Enjoy it whilst it lasts!

[SmokinFrazier]

I really hope we don't sell him. We should be thinking that all our prospects are on small money and could develop into something pretty special, which wouldn't just make the club more profitable and successful, but the value of the players will increase too. We almost got rid of Clough, Vela and now Holding but each of those players could end up being worth well over £15m in a couple of seasons, so whilst I understand the short term thinking, we can't just ignore the long term either. If we want to get promoted, we've got to keep our talent, and when we're back in the Championship, we need to have that talent to get promoted again if that's our aim. We can't replace any of these players with the sort of money they'll bring, so we should back the young talent we've got and try to create something positive. On a personal level, I'll be very disappointed to see the likes of Holding and Clough go but I don't think it's the best move for our club in the long run either.

We're in a rebuilding process and I'm not oblivious of the financial restrictions we have but we can't just sell everything with any value for quick, easy money, we need to think about the long term strength of the club and how to maximise what we've already got. The goal right now shouldn't be finding the next few million, it should be about accepting those financial losses and focusing on how to become a strong Championship team. We aren't going to get there if we flog our best assets, we need to build up to that.

[Worthy4England]

I really hope we don't sell him. We should be thinking that all our prospects are on small money and could develop into something pretty special, which wouldn't just make the club more profitable and successful, but the value of the players will increase too. We almost got rid of Clough, Vela and now Holding but each of those players could end up being worth well over £15m in a couple of seasons, so whilst I understand the short term thinking, we can't just ignore the long term either. If we want to get promoted, we've got to keep our talent, and when we're back in the Championship, we need to have that talent to get promoted again if that's our aim. We can't replace any of these players with the sort of money they'll bring, so we should back the young talent we've got and try to create something positive. On a personal level, I'll be very disappointed to see the likes of Holding and Clough go but I don't think it's the best move for our club in the long run either.

We're in a rebuilding process and I'm not oblivious of the financial restrictions we have but we can't just sell everything with any value for quick, easy money, we need to think about the long term strength of the club and how to maximise what we've already got. The goal right now shouldn't be finding the next few million, it should be about accepting those financial losses and focusing on how to become a strong Championship team. We aren't going to get there if we flog our best assets, we need to build up to that.

I don't disagree, but there is no long term thinking that's important, if we don't/can't secure the short term financial problems. If we sold Clough/Vela/Holding (I don't see Vela being worth £15m anytime soon) and it was for the new owners to get a return on investment, I'd be pi$$ed - I probably shouldn't be as they're entitled to make a profit if they can. If they sold them to ensure that we have a Club, then unfortunately we've got to be ok with that. Whether we'd ever be in a position to judge which one it was, I very much doubt...

[thebish]

I really hope we don't sell him. We should be thinking that all our prospects are on small money and could develop into something pretty special, which wouldn't just make the club more profitable and successful, but the value of the players will increase too. We almost got rid of Clough, Vela and now Holding but each of those players could end up being worth well over £15m in a couple of seasons, so whilst I understand the short term thinking, we can't just ignore the long term either. If we want to get promoted, we've got to keep our talent, and when we're back in the Championship, we need to have that talent to get promoted again if that's our aim. We can't replace any of these players with the sort of money they'll bring, so we should back the young talent we've got and try to create something positive. On a personal level, I'll be very disappointed to see the likes of Holding and Clough go but I don't think it's the best move for our club in the long run either.

We're in a rebuilding process and I'm not oblivious of the financial restrictions we have but we can't just sell everything with any value for quick, easy money, we need to think about the long term strength of the club and how to maximise what we've already got. The goal right now shouldn't be finding the next few million, it should be about accepting those financial losses and focusing on how to become a strong Championship team. We aren't going to get there if we flog our best assets, we need to build up to that.

I don't disagree, but there is no long term thinking that's important, if we don't/can't secure the short term financial problems. If we sold Clough/Vela/Holding (I don't see Vela being worth £15m anytime soon) and it was for the new owners to get a return on investment, I'd be pi$$ed - I probably shouldn't be as they're entitled to make a profit if they can. If they sold them to ensure that we have a Club, then unfortunately we've got to be ok with that. Whether we'd ever be in a position to judge which one it was, I very much doubt...

also - for Holden to be more valuable to us in a year's time, we'd first have to get him to sign a new contract, else he'd be off for nowt...

[SmokinFrazier]

I really hope we don't sell him. We should be thinking that all our prospects are on small money and could develop into something pretty special, which wouldn't just make the club more profitable and successful, but the value of the players will increase too. We almost got rid of Clough, Vela and now Holding but each of those players could end up being worth well over £15m in a couple of seasons, so whilst I understand the short term thinking, we can't just ignore the long term either. If we want to get promoted, we've got to keep our talent, and when we're back in the Championship, we need to have that talent to get promoted again if that's our aim. We can't replace any of these players with the sort of money they'll bring, so we should back the young talent we've got and try to create something positive. On a personal level, I'll be very disappointed to see the likes of Holding and Clough go but I don't think it's the best move for our club in the long run either.

We're in a rebuilding process and I'm not oblivious of the financial restrictions we have but we can't just sell everything with any value for quick, easy money, we need to think about the long term strength of the club and how to maximise what we've already got. The goal right now shouldn't be finding the next few million, it should be about accepting those financial losses and focusing on how to become a strong Championship team. We aren't going to get there if we flog our best assets, we need to build up to that.

I don't disagree, but there is no long term thinking that's important, if we don't/can't secure the short term financial problems. If we sold Clough/Vela/Holding (I don't see Vela being worth £15m anytime soon) and it was for the new owners to get a return on investment, I'd be pi$$ed - I probably shouldn't be as they're entitled to make a profit if they can. If they sold them to ensure that we have a Club, then unfortunately we've got to be ok with that. Whether we'd ever be in a position to judge which one it was, I very much doubt...

Yeah, I know what you mean. If that the owners were honest in saying that we're financially fine for next season, I think we should keep on to our talent and see where we are in a years time, hopefully back in the Championship, but if what they've said is a lie and that the rumours about our financial situation is correct, I'm disgusted by that. Not only with the owners, who've always seemed dodgy, but because we had other interested parties and also the FA, who gave the all clear to the current owners and declared them fit to run the club. If we do have more financial problems, the FA will quickly deduct points a year after they've checked over all the paperwork and said it's all good. It's farcical.

I hope that the financial situation, as both Holdsworth and Anderson have said, is strong enough that we can survive next year without needing to sell anyone. If that's wrong, the new owners need to just get out of the club as soon as possible and we move on from another potential disaster.

[BWFC_Insane]

Woah. We are losing 1M quid a month. The new owners aren't at fault for that. We are about to lose a considerable chunk of revenue too.

The new owners have never said they would be able to pump millions in. They said they could secure our future for this season and next. Part of that promise might have included selling players.

We don't have a rich billionaire prepared to put cash in no strings or questions. So we need to be self sufficient. Something many of our fans asked for.

The reality of that is going to be very different to what is expected by many I think.

[SmokinFrazier]

Woah. We are losing 1M quid a month. The new owners aren't at fault for that. We are about to lose a considerable chunk of revenue too.

The new owners have never said they would be able to pump millions in. They said they could secure our future for this season and next. Part of that promise might have included selling players.

We don't have a rich billionaire prepared to put cash in no strings or questions. So we need to be self sufficient. Something many of our fans asked for.

The reality of that is going to be very different to what is expected by many I think.

We should either accept those losses and look to make them back in the long term, by getting promoted, or pay them back in a way which doesn't hurt our future on the pitch. We can't just sell our best talent if we have any sort of ambition and if we did, where would that get us in the long term? It's a short term answer, nothing more. If we're losing £1m a month and we get a decent amount for Holding, that merely pay debts for 5 months, and on the pitch, we lose a player we can't possibly replace, so it's not a proper answer to our problems at all. Getting promoted and giving the fans something to believe in is an answer to our problems but we can't achieve that whilst flogging our best talent.

Besides, when the deal was going through, the FA were provided with information which proved that the new owners could keep us going for at least this season and the next, even if that was in League One. The FA obviously weren't told "we're going to sell one player for £5m", so the owners must have provided details for their financial strength that didn't include getting these large numbers for our top talent. If we're in a situation where we still have to sell our best prospects in order to keep the club running after we lose the big earners this summer, then something has gone badly wrong because the assurances given to the FA by our owners, and from the FA to us fans, was that the owners would be able to fund the running of the club without extra income that they couldn't have expected. After what we've been told, we shouldn't have to sell any players, we should be able to lose the high earners (Davies, Wheater etc.) in the summer and then we're on the road to self sufficiency.

I don't follow the financial side of everything as much as others do, so if you are saying it's a fact that we have no option other than to sell our best talent then we need new ownership. If we can avoid selling them, we should though because all it is is a short term answer that doesn't fix the inherent financial issues within our club. We can fix those problems if we focus on the quality young talent we have and use them to become financially solid again and that's a business model which works in the long term. We're not going to become financially stable because we get one lump sum and then lose a couple of thousand a week on wages, all that'll do is pay debts for a few months and that's it. These young players can be more beneficial to the club than that. If we keep them, we can get promoted and start to build something exciting but if we sell Holding now, Clough when he bangs in a few at the start of next season etc. then we're guaranteed to go nowhere as a club.