Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:52 pm

LeverEnd wrote:If their careers are derailed by a heavy defeat to a far superior tram they don't deserve one. Plus most of them aren't kids. They're adults. It's a chance to show some balls and if they lose draw determination from the experience
The theory seems to be that we have kids (that aren't involved) who are good enough. But I'm not sure what that is really based on.

Throwing in kids who aren't developmentally ready and aren't actually much good isn't really an answer to anything.

I'd rather see a kid who is deemed ready play than Emile Heskey, yes. But I suspect from what I've heard and seen that if we're relying on our kids in the main next season we'll be league 2 bound. The problem we have is our senior players aren't standing up to the challenge and that means it is very hard for youngsters to come in and make an impact.

With all the will in the world I'm not sure chucking kids who aren't even fully physically developd yet, into an away match at Derby is going to do them any good and may harm their development. I know that sounds wooly and soft but if confidence is knocked they may struggle when they are ready for the first team to perform at their best.

Clough exploded onto the scene but even he now really looks quite poor and rarely makes an impact in this team.

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:23 pm

I'd rather save the old fellas' appearance bonuses. Especially the ones who won't be here next season.

Obviously there's a balance to be struck – we need some experience out there – but with some of these lads we have to make decisions as to whether they're worth keeping on. We won't play anybody as hard as Derby/Boro/Hull next term but this is the opportunity so that's the lens we have to view it through. The Charlton game is a better barometer, although we should still be better next term (new boss, pre-season, hopeful removal of the death-stench).

Is it interesting that Mark Davies was subbed at HT at Bristol, stayed benched v Reading and wasn't in the 18 at Brentford?

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Prufrock » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:37 pm

It's a tricky one. You'd imagine we're not going to go into next season playing an entire team of kids, there'll be some experienced heads in there, whether current players or grizzled summer free transfers. So for example I'd like to see us playing Derik alongside different combinations of youth centre backs to give them a proper taste rather than playing 11 at once and getting murdered in a line-up that will never play together.
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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:43 pm

How long is Holding out for, just one game?
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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:48 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:I'd rather save the old fellas' appearance bonuses. Especially the ones who won't be here next season.

Obviously there's a balance to be struck – we need some experience out there – but with some of these lads we have to make decisions as to whether they're worth keeping on. We won't play anybody as hard as Derby/Boro/Hull next term but this is the opportunity so that's the lens we have to view it through. The Charlton game is a better barometer, although we should still be better next term (new boss, pre-season, hopeful removal of the death-stench).

Is it interesting that Mark Davies was subbed at HT at Bristol, stayed benched v Reading and wasn't in the 18 at Brentford?
I'd not assume much. We're still under transfer embargo.

Need to find a new manager, and also find some way of recruiting the required players.

Right now if someone said we'd survive in league one next season I'd take that.

That isn't negativity, I just feel that we aren't through the slump yet. And the reverse is going to take quite a bit, either time or money. And I suspect we're going to be dealing in time rather than cash.

I don't know a lot about league one. I expect it to be physical and full of battle hardened teams sprinkled with promising youngsters. Sadly we're lacking physicality as it is and certainly aren't battle hardened. We've got the promising youngsters I think (IF we keep a hold of them) but still a lot to do as I see it.

The difficulty is picking apart what we have, keeping some, re-motivating them and very shrewdly bringing in missing pieces to plug gaps in both skill and positions. I see it as more difficult because no doubt we will be saddled with some underperformers on high wages who will be no more effective in league one than they were this season.

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Riviman » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:00 pm

:grin:
TANGODANCER wrote:How long is Holding out for, just one game?
Just the one at Brentford on Tuesday, so should be back on Saturday.
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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:22 pm

Riviman wrote::grin:
TANGODANCER wrote:How long is Holding out for, just one game?
Just the one at Brentford on Tuesday, so should be back on Saturday.
That's good. He seem pretty decent with Deryk in defence. Moxey, who knows which head he'll have on? Right back is a problem if Maher isn't good enough. The rest is in the lap of who knows what.
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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:05 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Riviman wrote::grin:
TANGODANCER wrote:How long is Holding out for, just one game?
Just the one at Brentford on Tuesday, so should be back on Saturday.
That's good. He seem pretty decent with Deryk in defence. Moxey, who knows which head he'll have on? Right back is a problem if Maher isn't good enough. The rest is in the lap of who knows what.
Is Maher not good enough? Can't recall anyone reporting a problem at either game he started.

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Prufrock » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:04 pm

I'd also imagine Wilson is one we'd keep. Senior pro, knows the division, can't imagine he's on mega money. He's always looked fine when I've seen him.
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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:10 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:
Riviman wrote::grin:
TANGODANCER wrote:How long is Holding out for, just one game?
Just the one at Brentford on Tuesday, so should be back on Saturday.
That's good. He seem pretty decent with Deryk in defence. Moxey, who knows which head he'll have on? Right back is a problem if Maher isn't good enough. The rest is in the lap of who knows what.
Is Maher not good enough? Can't recall anyone reporting a problem at either game he started.
Not stating he isn't,D.S.B, as I haven't even seen him. I thought Wilson had gone?
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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:17 pm

Prufrock wrote:I'd also imagine Wilson is one we'd keep. Senior pro, knows the division, can't imagine he's on mega money. He's always looked fine when I've seen him.
Yep, I can see that. He's also adaptable - he's played in midfield, even on the left at Wembley. Even if the new gaffer doesn't particularly fancy him, he's under contract, and as you say hardly the first-choice fiscal burden to lose. That said, if somebody wants him, I'm sure we'd listen; I wouldn't be astonished to see anyone leaving this summer, we're in that much flux. That could be a boon but it could also be dangerous - although Watford seemed to manage this season.

As for other right-backs, Pisano's likely to be farmed out again, or sold at cost; can't imagine seeing Hayden White again (except possibly against us next season, when he'll have a stormer Because Life); Vela should return to midfield; Threlkeld might be around.

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:21 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:Right back is a problem if Maher isn't good enough. The rest is in the lap of who knows what.
Is Maher not good enough? Can't recall anyone reporting a problem at either game he started.
Not stating he isn't,D.S.B, as I haven't even seen him. I thought Wilson had gone?
Yeah, not starting a fight TD. According to the BN, against Reading Maher "after a shaky start looked comfortable enough against the lively Stephen Quinn and Jordan Obita"; he's not mentioned in the Brentford report, although "almost all" the homers' goals came down their right flank. Cos we need experience, see.

Wilson went on loan in January to Peterborough, managed by his old Stevenage boss Graham Westley, but only played one and a half league games and came back after the first month.

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:27 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:That could be a boon but it could also be dangerous - although Watford seemed to manage this season.
I guess Watford did manage to cut down from 4(?) managerial changes a season, this year though... :-)

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:42 pm

Prufrock wrote:I'd also imagine Wilson is one we'd keep. Senior pro, knows the division, can't imagine he's on mega money. He's always looked fine when I've seen him.
I really don't understand why he hasn't had more games for us. He's nae Gary Neville, but he's always looked sound enough when I've seen him.
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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:36 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Prufrock wrote:I'd also imagine Wilson is one we'd keep. Senior pro, knows the division, can't imagine he's on mega money. He's always looked fine when I've seen him.
I really don't understand why he hasn't had more games for us. He's nae Gary Neville, but he's always looked sound enough when I've seen him.
I think when he's not solid he's absolute dreadful like he panics and loses his head. I thought he was doing well and then went to Huddersfield where he just froze.i can only think that's why lennon binned him.otherwise it was unduly harsh.
...

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Dr Hotdog » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:01 am

Right back shouldn't be a problem if the loan reports on Thelkeld (Plymouth) & White (Blackpool) are good (and I believe they are).

Trouble is Wilson & Pisano both got two year deals...

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Hoboh » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:59 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:I'd rather save the old fellas' appearance bonuses. Especially the ones who won't be here next season.

Obviously there's a balance to be struck – we need some experience out there – but with some of these lads we have to make decisions as to whether they're worth keeping on. We won't play anybody as hard as Derby/Boro/Hull next term but this is the opportunity so that's the lens we have to view it through. The Charlton game is a better barometer, although we should still be better next term (new boss, pre-season, hopeful removal of the death-stench).

Is it interesting that Mark Davies was subbed at HT at Bristol, stayed benched v Reading and wasn't in the 18 at Brentford?
I'd not assume much. We're still under transfer embargo.

Need to find a new manager, and also find some way of recruiting the required players.

Right now if someone said we'd survive in league one next season I'd take that.

That isn't negativity, I just feel that we aren't through the slump yet. And the reverse is going to take quite a bit, either time or money. And I suspect we're going to be dealing in time rather than cash.

I don't know a lot about league one. I expect it to be physical and full of battle hardened teams sprinkled with promising youngsters. Sadly we're lacking physicality as it is and certainly aren't battle hardened. We've got the promising youngsters I think (IF we keep a hold of them) but still a lot to do as I see it.

The difficulty is picking apart what we have, keeping some, re-motivating them and very shrewdly bringing in missing pieces to plug gaps in both skill and positions. I see it as more difficult because no doubt we will be saddled with some underperformers on high wages who will be no more effective in league one than they were this season.
Which matters so much at this time because.....?

Season end, when it really matters, I suspect it will be gone.

Fcuk me you really can tell your one of the Europhiles with the scare stories!

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by NiceHotCuppaTea » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:42 pm



Also spotted this with Niall Maher too:


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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:13 pm

JP presser quotes via Twitter.
Both Liam [Trotter] and David [Wheater] have been very apologetic over their actions in midweek - we have to move on from it now though.

The possible consequences of this weekend doesn't affect our approach. We'll be as committed and professional as we have been. It'll probably be a full house at the iPro Stadium tomorrow and we need to put in a performance for our fans to be proud of. Our fans this season have been fantastic and again down at Brentford, they were still there with their brilliant support. As a club, we owe the fans an away victory. I can't remember a season when we've gone without one. [For the record, Jimmy: 1949/50 and 79/80]

Stephen Dobbie will be back in contention although Mark Davies is touch and go. Rob Holding is back from suspension too.

It's a big blow for Rob Hall, but medical science is so fantastic nowadays he'll come back stronger for the setback.

Dean Holdsworth and I speak on a daily basis - he's been very supportive since I came into the job. We will sit down with the directors and board towards the end of the campaign to see how they envisage the future of the club.

We haven't helped ourselves in recent games by conceding so early on. It's then a mountain to climb. The players are professional sportsmen though and although it's been tough, they will go out there in the final games and compete.

Niall Maher has done very well - he had a bit of Championship experience with Blackpool and he's impressed. Some of the other youngsters have perhaps found it a little harder, but they've certainly given their all in the situation. It will have been a very good experience for Alex Samizadeh - you can't get the first team professional feel at youth level. Ultimately, U21 football doesn't prepare players for the first team - you need that experience and that comes with loan moves. We'll be looking towards experience with a mix of youth in the final games - we want to restore some pride back at the club.

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Re: Pride Park Comes Before The Fall - Derby (A) 09/04/16

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:43 pm

Mark Davies is touch and go... :lol: No! Really?

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