Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[elhadj]

I will Wright it again, Ken Anderson will not put any penny in Bolton because he doesn't care about Bolton he is just in Bolton because he find a source to get a lot of money , every time he put his note in Bolton website you will understand that he doesn't care what will happen because he is looking for any investor to buy Bolton from him and take money , his last comment about stats and history is f*** g s***e , I will not Wright about history but I will about stats, all of us know that we are winless in eleven match and scoreless in last eight match , look at Parkinson stats in championship, don't defend Parkinson and said that he can't do anything his hand is cuff and he can't bring any player he want , maybe if Parkinson is fired maybe there is some one can do better than him with this same squad , you don't know don't tell me there is no body can do better than Parkinson because Parkinson did nothing in championship , I think the change of manager and owner is needed now in this international break , Ken Anderson like I said will not sacked Parkinson because he renew his contract and don't want to pay him and his staff .
I hope there will be some change if it is the manager or the owner because the change is needed , don't say we are already down wait till some thing happen like Parkinson got sacked or Ken Anderson sell Bolton to one who have money.

[Nicko58]

KA needed reasonable, decent start to this season to attract 'investors' or, more to the point, flog the club for a good profit and leave with hero/saviour status.
He has got neither and it is to be hoped that unlike his manager he has a plan B.

Would an investor prepared to put money into the club really be put off by 11 games? Strikes me as possible, but not likely. Anyone coming in with money would know the score here. Ken's only chance IMO is to find some investor who will buy Deano's shares back off him and put some money in get us to midtable championship type level and leave the club attractive to a buyer. I think that is a huge long shot.

Why is it such a huge long shot that we'll attract either investment or an outright buyer?

[BWFC_Insane]

KA needed reasonable, decent start to this season to attract 'investors' or, more to the point, flog the club for a good profit and leave with hero/saviour status.
He has got neither and it is to be hoped that unlike his manager he has a plan B.

Would an investor prepared to put money into the club really be put off by 11 games? Strikes me as possible, but not likely. Anyone coming in with money would know the score here. Ken's only chance IMO is to find some investor who will buy Deano's shares back off him and put some money in get us to midtable championship type level and leave the club attractive to a buyer. I think that is a huge long shot.

Why is it such a huge long shot that we'll attract either investment or an outright buyer?

Because we are making a loss. And the investment required is massive. And the long term potential is smaller than at places like say, Birmingham city, Southampton, Sunderland etc...we will never have 40,000 crowds....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

KA needed reasonable, decent start to this season to attract 'investors' or, more to the point, flog the club for a good profit and leave with hero/saviour status.
He has got neither and it is to be hoped that unlike his manager he has a plan B.

Would an investor prepared to put money into the club really be put off by 11 games? Strikes me as possible, but not likely. Anyone coming in with money would know the score here. Ken's only chance IMO is to find some investor who will buy Deano's shares back off him and put some money in get us to midtable championship type level and leave the club attractive to a buyer. I think that is a huge long shot.

Why is it such a huge long shot that we'll attract either investment or an outright buyer?

Because we are making a loss. And the investment required is massive. And the long term potential is smaller than at places like say, Birmingham city, Southampton, Sunderland etc...we will never have 40,000 crowds....

I beg to differ. Nobody thought, with Man U so dominant in the city, that any investment in the perpetual underdogs would be worthwhile. I bet there are one or two millionaires now rueing their lack of foresight there.
There are a quite a few investments available where if anybody had both the money and the balls they would transform themselves into even bigger rich kids. I'm specifically thinking either of the Sheffield clubs. But above all investments screaming for a sugar daddy who will boost their own fortunes in the process, then the North West has all the cream - not least, in fact the best prospect, being us, the Trotters.

[BWFC_Insane]

KA needed reasonable, decent start to this season to attract 'investors' or, more to the point, flog the club for a good profit and leave with hero/saviour status.
He has got neither and it is to be hoped that unlike his manager he has a plan B.

Would an investor prepared to put money into the club really be put off by 11 games? Strikes me as possible, but not likely. Anyone coming in with money would know the score here. Ken's only chance IMO is to find some investor who will buy Deano's shares back off him and put some money in get us to midtable championship type level and leave the club attractive to a buyer. I think that is a huge long shot.

Why is it such a huge long shot that we'll attract either investment or an outright buyer?

Because we are making a loss. And the investment required is massive. And the long term potential is smaller than at places like say, Birmingham city, Southampton, Sunderland etc...we will never have 40,000 crowds....

I beg to differ. Nobody thought, with Man U so dominant in the city, that any investment in the perpetual underdogs would be worthwhile. I bet there are one or two millionaires now rueing their lack of foresight there.
There are a quite a few investments available where if anybody had both the money and the balls they would transform themselves into even bigger rich kids. I'm specifically thinking either of the Sheffield clubs. But above all investments screaming for a sugar daddy who will boost their own fortunes in the process, then the North West has all the cream - not least, in fact the best prospect, being us, the Trotters.

Woah. Man City, a big city club with far larger potential than us. Their relative success at the time isn't a factor if you're going to pour money in. Even if someone bankrolled us all the way to the premiership we'd still only get 25K crowds and half of them would be moaning!

[bristol_Wanderer3]

A premiership club with approx 25k crowds these days is worth £150m - £200m these days, as referenced by recent WBA and Southampton takeovers. Ellis Short is turning down £90m for Sunderland even after their relegation. Forest went for £50m - £70m. What could someone by us for now? £20-£30m? Seems a great gamble if we get anywhere near looking like we might make a fist of survival. It might only take a couple of years to get us challenging.

[Hoboh]

A premiership club with approx 25k crowds these days is worth £150m - £200m these days, as referenced by recent WBA and Southampton takeovers. Ellis Short is turning down £90m for Sunderland even after their relegation. Forest went for £50m - £70m. What could someone by us for now? £20-£30m? Seems a great gamble if we get anywhere near looking like we might make a fist of survival. It might only take a couple of years to get us challenging.

And that's the problem, we ain't!

[nelson66]

In a funny sort of way - I think we all owe Ken a debt of gratitude for coming in and saving our club at the 11th hour - literally minutes before we went bust...
He has also presided over a promotion from league 1 and brought our day to day finances into some sort of control (not forgetting our Wonga loan)
Well done Ken
But theres is more to it than that - we need an owner with a passion for our club - who has the ambition to drive us up the league - and who has the ££££ to back his manager in the transfer market
Those who tread water eventually sink and drown

KEN OUT !

[dave the minion]

We absolutely owe him a debt of gratitude. Without him the club would have gone under last year - there was hardly a long line of potential investors queuing up to pump money into our sinking ship. As you say, under his stewardship we have survived various winding up orders, got rid of the pay-day loan and gained a promotion.
Like none of us on here I don't know what Ken's ultimate aim or motives are. Is he in it for the long haul to build the club up, or does he just want to sell on for a quick buck - who knows?
However, in my simple world, surely both aims lead to the sort of behaviour we want from a chairman - if he just wants to move us on then surely he can only turn a profit on the venture if he builds the club up?
Its all well and good saying he needs to go and we need to replace him with someone with loads of cash and a passion for the club - I think thats what we all want - but who is this mythical person? Unless I am wrong there aren't too many Jack Walkers of the world knocking around Bolton, just looking for something to do with a spare 100m?
I guess the best we could hope for is some foreign businessman coming in and taking over - but that hardly guarantees peace and harmony (as our friends at Blackburn will contest!).
The problem is we are a victim of the football system and a perfect example of bad timing. We enjoyed the good times and built up the infrastructure around the club before the silly money started flowing through, and now it is flowing through we are too far down to benefit. Unless something changes dramatically in football - or we are very lucky with an investor - I can see a long period bobbing around the lower championship / upper League 1 I'm afraid....

[BWFC_Insane]

A premiership club with approx 25k crowds these days is worth £150m - £200m these days, as referenced by recent WBA and Southampton takeovers. Ellis Short is turning down £90m for Sunderland even after their relegation. Forest went for £50m - £70m. What could someone by us for now? £20-£30m? Seems a great gamble if we get anywhere near looking like we might make a fist of survival. It might only take a couple of years to get us challenging.

You cannot reference our potential and discuss clubs like Southampton and Sunderland. Both have huge catchment areas, with little in the way of local competition. Under the right circumstances (with big enough grounds) you could imagine both getting 40K fans. We never will.

The problem we have is simply potential. We don't have the potential for growth in the way many similar clubs might do.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

We're now at risk of being plagued by the Many-Worlds Interpretation – first posited by the father of the bloke out of Eels, often manifested hereabouts as the Andranik Paradox, wherein the guy who isn't playing would definitely, definitely have had a better game than that shovel-footed idiot the manager chose.

But I do wonder how things might have panned out in other scenarios. There's another world in which we come out of embargo in April, the £4.5k ceiling and 24-man limit are dropped, and Ken/PP have all summer to get players who might keep us up. I wonder who we'd have got? (Presumably Spearing, possibly Bersant Celina if we weren't juggling, almost certainly a better alternative to Madine than poor old Alby...) I wonder how we'd have done?

And then there's another universe in which we come out of embargo in April and Ken finds a backer or buyer. In fact, then you're entering multiple alternative worlds...

[BWFC_Insane]

We're now at risk of being plagued by the Many-Worlds Interpretation – first posited by the father of the bloke out of Eels, often manifested hereabouts as the Andranik Paradox, wherein the guy who isn't playing would definitely, definitely have had a better game than that shovel-footed idiot the manager chose.

But I do wonder how things might have panned out in other scenarios. There's another world in which we come out of embargo in April, the £4.5k ceiling and 24-man limit are dropped, and Ken/PP have all summer to get players who might keep us up. I wonder who we'd have got? (Presumably Spearing, possibly Bersant Celina if we weren't juggling, almost certainly a better alternative to Madine than poor old Alby...) I wonder how we'd have done?

And then there's another universe in which we come out of embargo in April and Ken finds a backer or buyer. In fact, then you're entering multiple alternative worlds...

Out of embargo in April and it'd have been considerably better. As you say, without further investment it still would have been tough. But I think we'd have a much better squad.

With investment...who knows?

[bristol_Wanderer3]

A premiership club with approx 25k crowds these days is worth £150m - £200m these days, as referenced by recent WBA and Southampton takeovers. Ellis Short is turning down £90m for Sunderland even after their relegation. Forest went for £50m - £70m. What could someone by us for now? £20-£30m? Seems a great gamble if we get anywhere near looking like we might make a fist of survival. It might only take a couple of years to get us challenging.

You cannot reference our potential and discuss clubs like Southampton and Sunderland. Both have huge catchment areas, with little in the way of local competition. Under the right circumstances (with big enough grounds) you could imagine both getting 40K fans. We never will.

The problem we have is simply potential. We don't have the potential for growth in the way many similar clubs might do.

I disagree. Southampton have a 32000 capacity, we have a 29000 capacity. They certainly have a bigger catchment area and get slightly bigger crowds, but that becomes irrelevant at Premiership level when the bulk of all clubs revenue comes from the TV deal. We are in the same bracket in terms of the value of the club to investors. Sunderland are potentially bigger, they can average 45000 but again because of the nature of the TV deal, unless they can translate that into joining the ranks of the elite superclubs then thy wouldn't be worth much more than us to investors if we were both in the Premiership. And they aren't good value at three times more than us in the Championship.

[BWFC_Insane]

A premiership club with approx 25k crowds these days is worth £150m - £200m these days, as referenced by recent WBA and Southampton takeovers. Ellis Short is turning down £90m for Sunderland even after their relegation. Forest went for £50m - £70m. What could someone by us for now? £20-£30m? Seems a great gamble if we get anywhere near looking like we might make a fist of survival. It might only take a couple of years to get us challenging.

You cannot reference our potential and discuss clubs like Southampton and Sunderland. Both have huge catchment areas, with little in the way of local competition. Under the right circumstances (with big enough grounds) you could imagine both getting 40K fans. We never will.

The problem we have is simply potential. We don't have the potential for growth in the way many similar clubs might do.

I disagree. Southampton have a 32000 capacity, we have a 29000 capacity. They certainly have a bigger catchment area and get slightly bigger crowds, but that becomes irrelevant at Premiership level when the bulk of all clubs revenue comes from the TV deal. We are in the same bracket in terms of the value of the club to investors. Sunderland are potentially bigger, they can average 45000 but again because of the nature of the TV deal, unless they can translate that into joining the ranks of the elite superclubs then thy wouldn't be worth much more than us to investors if we were both in the Premiership. And they aren't good value at three times more than us in the Championship.

But investors or buyers generally want the potential for maximum exposure. Either for themselves of their brand. When we reference number of fans it is potential (so forget stadium size) for maximum exposure. Nationally and internationally. Southampton and Sunderland far exceed ourselves in that regard. Fans are a pseudo measure for how far a club's brand can travel.

City clubs have an advantage as its easier to brand that round the world than a Northern town.

If you have a 60,000 stadium, Southampton, doing really well have potential to fill that. They have a broad enough catchment area. Sunderland too. We simply wouldn't. Even if we're talking top 3 in the premiership.

Sunderland, Southampton therefore have wider international appeal and are bigger brands than we are.

That is how an investor would generally see a football club (unless they're a fan).

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

We're now at risk of being plagued by the Many-Worlds Interpretation – first posited by the father of the bloke out of Eels, often manifested hereabouts as the Andranik Paradox, wherein the guy who isn't playing would definitely, definitely have had a better game than that shovel-footed idiot the manager chose.

But I do wonder how things might have panned out in other scenarios. There's another world in which we come out of embargo in April, the £4.5k ceiling and 24-man limit are dropped, and Ken/PP have all summer to get players who might keep us up. I wonder who we'd have got? (Presumably Spearing, possibly Bersant Celina if we weren't juggling, almost certainly a better alternative to Madine than poor old Alby...) I wonder how we'd have done?

And then there's another universe in which we come out of embargo in April and Ken finds a backer or buyer. In fact, then you're entering multiple alternative worlds...

Out of embargo in April and it'd have been considerably better. As you say, without further investment it still would have been tough. But I think we'd have a much better squad.

With investment...who knows?

Well, nobody. Which makes it both fun but also fraught with confirmation bias. If you don't like Parky, you'd say he'd still have bought shite and known nowt anyway. If you do like Parky, you might imagine he'd have retained Spearing, beaten Millwall to ex-Bradford left-back James Meredith and ex-Fleetwood right-back Conor McLaughlin rather than going for greenhorn Robinson and doughty Darby, chased a less risky winger than Buckley (which is basically any winger other than Buckley), signed a target man who can score...

[bristol_Wanderer3]

A premiership club with approx 25k crowds these days is worth £150m - £200m these days, as referenced by recent WBA and Southampton takeovers. Ellis Short is turning down £90m for Sunderland even after their relegation. Forest went for £50m - £70m. What could someone by us for now? £20-£30m? Seems a great gamble if we get anywhere near looking like we might make a fist of survival. It might only take a couple of years to get us challenging.

You cannot reference our potential and discuss clubs like Southampton and Sunderland. Both have huge catchment areas, with little in the way of local competition. Under the right circumstances (with big enough grounds) you could imagine both getting 40K fans. We never will.

The problem we have is simply potential. We don't have the potential for growth in the way many similar clubs might do.

I disagree. Southampton have a 32000 capacity, we have a 29000 capacity. They certainly have a bigger catchment area and get slightly bigger crowds, but that becomes irrelevant at Premiership level when the bulk of all clubs revenue comes from the TV deal. We are in the same bracket in terms of the value of the club to investors. Sunderland are potentially bigger, they can average 45000 but again because of the nature of the TV deal, unless they can translate that into joining the ranks of the elite superclubs then thy wouldn't be worth much more than us to investors if we were both in the Premiership. And they aren't good value at three times more than us in the Championship.

But investors or buyers generally want the potential for maximum exposure. Either for themselves of their brand. When we reference number of fans it is potential (so forget stadium size) for maximum exposure. Nationally and internationally. Southampton and Sunderland far exceed ourselves in that regard. Fans are a pseudo measure for how far a club's brand can travel.

City clubs have an advantage as its easier to brand that round the world than a Northern town.

If you have a 60,000 stadium, Southampton, doing really well have potential to fill that. They have a broad enough catchment area. Sunderland too. We simply wouldn't. Even if we're talking top 3 in the premiership.

Sunderland, Southampton therefore have wider international appeal and are bigger brands than we are.

That is how an investor would generally see a football club (unless they're a fan).

But when investors are looking to grow their brand through football clubs, it isn't about getting a few thousand more fans through the turnstiles, it is about getting young people in China and the USA to pay for TV subscriptions and buy replica shirts. To go from a mid table, mid sized club to another Chelsea or Man City takes prolonged success and regular Champions League football. Outside the top 6 or 7 clubs, no one is remotely close to doing that. It is now close to impossible to do, with FFP being a barrier to doing what Chelsea and Man City did (i.e. super rich benefactor/country bankrolling a prolonged spending spree). So the going rate for a WBA, a midlands version of ourselves you might argue, was very similar to the value of Southampton, and I would wager Sunderland, were they in the Premiership.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If you have a 60,000 stadium, Southampton, doing really well have potential to fill that. They have a broad enough catchment area. Sunderland too. We simply wouldn't. Even if we're talking top 3 in the premiership.

You really think Southampton could double their active fanbase? The chairman didn't think so, as recently as 2015, when revealing they won't be pursuing expansion: "I think when we go through a full season with 100 per cent occupancy then you can have those conversations. We’re still not there. We’re at 93 per cent or 94 per cent."
This was after making into Europe, mark you, and although he vaguely promised "I see 2016-17 there will be a lot more invested in the stadium than in this season," I see no Liebherr cranes above the stadium despite four successive top-eight finishes and three successive European jaunts.

I mean, you may be right, and if they crack into the Champions League the Hampshire hinterland may empty in numbers untold to double the attendance. But I doubt it. (And as with the many-worlds theory, I'm fairly confident we'll never know.)

[BWFC_Insane]

If you have a 60,000 stadium, Southampton, doing really well have potential to fill that. They have a broad enough catchment area. Sunderland too. We simply wouldn't. Even if we're talking top 3 in the premiership.

You really think Southampton could double their active fanbase? The chairman didn't think so, as recently as 2015, when revealing they won't be pursuing expansion: "I think when we go through a full season with 100 per cent occupancy then you can have those conversations. We’re still not there. We’re at 93 per cent or 94 per cent."
This was after making into Europe, mark you, and although he vaguely promised "I see 2016-17 there will be a lot more invested in the stadium than in this season," I see no Liebherr cranes above the stadium despite four successive top-eight finishes and three successive European jaunts.

I mean, you may be right, and if they crack into the Champions League the Hampshire hinterland may empty in numbers untold to double the attendance. But I doubt it. (And as with the many-worlds theory, I'm fairly confident we'll never know.)

Not necessarily every week. But they'd be pushing it if they challenged for the title and had a big enough ground.

They're a bigger brand than we are potentially. As are Sunderland. For me we're in with West Brom, Fulham - clubs with lots of competition around the them, bigger neighbours and a very definitive ceiling.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Lets introduce some expertise into this conversation

http://brandfinance.com/images/upload/b ... _6th_1.pdf

So interesting brand values according to this report are: Burnley £148m, Bournemouth £220m, WBA £222m, Newcastle £247m, Southampton £269m, West Ham £303m.

It should be noted that brand value doesn't equal what a club might be sold for. There are articles out there suggesting that Jeremy Peace sold 88% of WBA in 2016 having previously demanded £150m, and 80% of Southampton was recently sold valuing the club at £200m.

I think from the report we can safely say crowd size and ground capacity have at best only a negligible effect. Bournemouth get 11000, Newcastle 52000, yet their values are close. Southampton at 30000ish crowds are valued at more than Newcastle. It also confirms that £20m-£30m for us, if that is indeed what it would cost, represents a lot of upwards potential if we could sort things on the pitch. And surely if Newcastle are a brand valued at £247m, then Sunderland wouldn't be worth more, and we represent a way better investment prospect, if their owner wants £90m as has been reported?

[BWFC_Insane]

Lets introduce some expertise into this conversation

http://brandfinance.com/images/upload/b ... _6th_1.pdf

So interesting brand values according to this report are: Burnley £148m, Bournemouth £220m, WBA £222m, Newcastle £247m, Southampton £269m, West Ham £303m.

It should be noted that brand value doesn't equal what a club might be sold for. There are articles out there suggesting that Jeremy Peace sold 88% of WBA in 2016 having previously demanded £150m, and 80% of Southampton was recently sold valuing the club at £200m.

I think from the report we can safely say crowd size and ground capacity have at best only a negligible effect. Bournemouth get 11000, Newcastle 52000, yet their values are close. Southampton at 30000ish crowds are valued at more than Newcastle. It also confirms that £20m-£30m for us, if that is indeed what it would cost, represents a lot of upwards potential if we could sort things on the pitch. And surely if Newcastle are a brand valued at £247m, then Sunderland wouldn't be worth more, and we represent a way better investment prospect, if their owner wants £90m as has been reported?

That report though is a snapshot of where clubs are. Our potential is probably aligned somewhere close to Watford or Burnley or Palace. Not Newcastle or Southampton.

Thats the point. Our ceiling isn't as high as other clubs. And if you look in the championship there are many city clubs who would command a wider brand than ourselves if success was obtained.