Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:34 am

Dave Richards has Thai links doesn’t he? Came to light with Leicester? He sounds dodgy as feck!

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by nelson66 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:40 am

.. :cry:
Last edited by nelson66 on Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:40 am

If there is interest from numerous groups, the EFL aren't now under time pressure not to do a proper FPP check?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by nelson66 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:41 am

looks like our club is going to be "saved" by dodgy money from abroad -- if you dont want to wake up with a horses head on your pillow, or for your missus to wake up next to you and see you blue in the face with a sardine hanging out of your mouth then best not say anything bad about any club directors any more.....
If its dodgy Thai cash --then how long before our club is involved in a match fixing scandal...
dark days for us fans no matter what the outcome :(
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Prufrock » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:43 am

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:26 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:21 am
Coincidentally 3 days after our last game. Maybe the Leopard was on to something.

Must say the Ken benefiting to £26m sounds total tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense to me, that doesn't look too work, and even if it did would involve roughly speaking a million crimes (including no doubt ones our dear opponents today would be interested in).

I think Ken as crooked as a two bob bit but don't think he's stupid enough to do anything unambiguously criminal.
The £13m aspect of it due to factoring is entirely legal...
Hm. "Factoring" is BWFC (or whichever company (/ies) selling off in advance the future income from e.g. ticket sales/ EFL payments (though the latter may be against EFL rules, no idea) and broadly speaking fine. It's the bit where it allegedly gets siphoned off into Ken's kurrent akount never to return that will involve roughly one million different crimes.
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:50 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:43 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:26 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:21 am
Coincidentally 3 days after our last game. Maybe the Leopard was on to something.

Must say the Ken benefiting to £26m sounds total tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense to me, that doesn't look too work, and even if it did would involve roughly speaking a million crimes (including no doubt ones our dear opponents today would be interested in).

I think Ken as crooked as a two bob bit but don't think he's stupid enough to do anything unambiguously criminal.
The £13m aspect of it due to factoring is entirely legal...
Hm. "Factoring" is BWFC (or whichever company (/ies) selling off in advance the future income from e.g. ticket sales/ EFL payments (though the latter may be against EFL rules, no idea) and broadly speaking fine. It's the bit where it allegedly gets siphoned off into Ken's kurrent akount never to return that will involve roughly one million different crimes.
The factoring element of it i.e, short term borrowing against guaranteed future income is quite common. Here is an article about the factoring of Rihad Mahrez..

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/11/12/ ... ad-Mahrez/

The moving of money from ICI to wherever it has gone, might be illegal/dodgy, but we have to assume Ken, given his background, would have a legal way to do this. I am sure it would be scandalous if it was proven and public and the EFL were made aware of it though..

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by twilight » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:52 am

BASSINI !!!!!!!!
Havent we always said be careful what we wish for. I'm going to lie down in a darkened room. Can't take much more of this rubbish. deary me :(

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:05 pm

twilight wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:52 am
BASSINI !!!!!!!!
Havent we always said be careful what we wish for. I'm going to lie down in a darkened room. Can't take much more of this rubbish. deary me :(
Its probably him or bust.....

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Prufrock » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:06 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:50 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:43 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:26 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:21 am
Coincidentally 3 days after our last game. Maybe the Leopard was on to something.

Must say the Ken benefiting to £26m sounds total tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense to me, that doesn't look too work, and even if it did would involve roughly speaking a million crimes (including no doubt ones our dear opponents today would be interested in).

I think Ken as crooked as a two bob bit but don't think he's stupid enough to do anything unambiguously criminal.
The £13m aspect of it due to factoring is entirely legal...
Hm. "Factoring" is BWFC (or whichever company (/ies) selling off in advance the future income from e.g. ticket sales/ EFL payments (though the latter may be against EFL rules, no idea) and broadly speaking fine. It's the bit where it allegedly gets siphoned off into Ken's kurrent akount never to return that will involve roughly one million different crimes.
The factoring element of it i.e, short term borrowing against guaranteed future income is quite common. Here is an article about the factoring of Rihad Mahrez..

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/11/12/ ... ad-Mahrez/

The moving of money from ICI to wherever it has gone, might be illegal/dodgy, but we have to assume Ken, given his background, would have a legal way to do this. I am sure it would be scandalous if it was proven and public and the EFL were made aware of it though..
As I say, probably nothing won't with the factoring, agreed it isn't uncommon. It's how Ken then gets hold of it.

The most typical legit way would be via a director's loan, but in that case it remains repayable and that debt can be either called in or sold on liquidation (depending on the terms of the loan) and so Ken doesn't just get to keep it.

I don't at all think his background means we have to assume he has a legal way of doing it! In fact is say strongly the opposite. And backpocketing £26m nefariously is not going to lead to a slap on the wrists on a short ban.

I have no doubts Ken will be all right Jack, and wouldn't surprise me if there is dodginess around the edges but still don't for a second but he's better off of we're liquidated.

Even his £5m, we know (I think) it's secured, but we don't know what (if anything) it's secured against. But let's say it's secured against the ground. That doesn't mean he's guaranteed £5m. It just means that if we get £5m plus for the ground (and he's first in line) he gets £5m.

If we went into admin, there'd be a decent shout you could recover a lot of what the club is worth from the new buyer. Not if we're liquidated. NewCo playing in the northern counties aren't going to buy the ground.

Even secured creditors would be bollocksed of we're liquidated. Can't see what assets we have beyond possibly the car park and hotel (if still ours) they might get more than a tenner. Unless Wigan want two training grounds.

And if his charge is floating, yeah, good luck.
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:12 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:17 am
According to LoV's man in court, Hilary was "begging" for seven days, "admitting she’d take admin despite it not being ideal".... then the judge gives it till May 8th, along with every other adjournment. Hmm.

Can-kicking to the end of the season (final game is May 5th), which would then allow the League to do pretty much as they please – although expelling us would necessitate a bit of rejigging.

Just sell, man. Go away.
I did give you all prior warning.

The EFL will have sent the judge a letter explaining their dilemma.
Judge thinks, wtf, might as well adjourn, HMRC ain't getting any more money back this week than next month...
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:17 pm

So, to re-cap:
Bolton Wanderers, northern English home of the flat-cap, pasties and whippet legends - where trips on the Blackpool Belle were once regarded as high living- are now involved with somebody who borrows a name from The Godfather, hires a Rolls Royce and makes K.A an offer he can't refuse amidst rumours of shed-loads of Oriental " treasure", and mesmerises the law courts into an unbelievably kind postponement of execution before disappearing in a cloud of Calvin Klein aftershave and exhaust smoke. Eee, by gum. They'll be re-opening Woolworths next......
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:06 pm
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:50 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:43 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:26 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:21 am
Coincidentally 3 days after our last game. Maybe the Leopard was on to something.

Must say the Ken benefiting to £26m sounds total tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense to me, that doesn't look too work, and even if it did would involve roughly speaking a million crimes (including no doubt ones our dear opponents today would be interested in).

I think Ken as crooked as a two bob bit but don't think he's stupid enough to do anything unambiguously criminal.
The £13m aspect of it due to factoring is entirely legal...
Hm. "Factoring" is BWFC (or whichever company (/ies) selling off in advance the future income from e.g. ticket sales/ EFL payments (though the latter may be against EFL rules, no idea) and broadly speaking fine. It's the bit where it allegedly gets siphoned off into Ken's kurrent akount never to return that will involve roughly one million different crimes.
The factoring element of it i.e, short term borrowing against guaranteed future income is quite common. Here is an article about the factoring of Rihad Mahrez..

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/11/12/ ... ad-Mahrez/

The moving of money from ICI to wherever it has gone, might be illegal/dodgy, but we have to assume Ken, given his background, would have a legal way to do this. I am sure it would be scandalous if it was proven and public and the EFL were made aware of it though..
As I say, probably nothing won't with the factoring, agreed it isn't uncommon. It's how Ken then gets hold of it.

The most typical legit way would be via a director's loan, but in that case it remains repayable and that debt can be either called in or sold on liquidation (depending on the terms of the loan) and so Ken doesn't just get to keep it.

I don't at all think his background means we have to assume he has a legal way of doing it! In fact is say strongly the opposite. And backpocketing £26m nefariously is not going to lead to a slap on the wrists on a short ban.

I have no doubts Ken will be all right Jack, and wouldn't surprise me if there is dodginess around the edges but still don't for a second but he's better off of we're liquidated.

Even his £5m, we know (I think) it's secured, but we don't know what (if anything) it's secured against. But let's say it's secured against the ground. That doesn't mean he's guaranteed £5m. It just means that if we get £5m plus for the ground (and he's first in line) he gets £5m.

If we went into admin, there'd be a decent shout you could recover a lot of what the club is worth from the new buyer. Not if we're liquidated. NewCo playing in the northern counties aren't going to buy the ground.

Even secured creditors would be bollocksed of we're liquidated. Can't see what assets we have beyond possibly the car park and hotel (if still ours) they might get more than a tenner. Unless Wigan want two training grounds.

And if his charge is floating, yeah, good luck.
Yes by his background I meant if there is one area he is an expert in it is liquidation and accountancy. So if there is a legal way, or a way that is the most likely to protect him from discovery or prosecution, he will know about it.

It is debatable about the value of assets on liquidation but I believe it is thought that it would cover all the secured creditors i.e. over £13m. I guess it depends what they could be sold for...

The rest of the £26m is simply not paying back the £13m we have discussed, and not paying back the £8m he has borrowed from Moonshift. Hard to dispute? ICI would be liquidated with no assets, he wouldn't be paying them back?

If we aren't liquidated, then a non-Bassini group might well try and get at the £13m. I believe Howards's group (if real) were trying to claw it back. And he would still have to repay Moonshift as ICI would still exist..

If this is all not illegal, than it could be certainly damaging, and would surely put the football authorities under pressure to penalize him. And he has had one 8 year ban from companies house for pretty much similar behaviour. So he might face further sanction there?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Prufrock » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Re: the assets, I don't know this and so could be wrong but I'd be gobsmacked, call me Fanny and tickle me pink, if we had £13m of realisable assets on liquidation in total. Not book value, but cash money sellable assets. For what? Who's buying the ground, the training ground, the players? And for how much. You might get a Coventry style vulture trying to buy the ground on the cheap and lease it back to the NewCo but for how much? Not like there are any other teams going to buy it. And then there's who else has security over what. Have I made up that e.g. Thingy James has loans secured against the car park. Assuming Krooked K has a floating charge he only starts recovering from proceeds on particular assets after fixed creditors have been repaid (if their charge is fixed against that asset). So if MJ has £5m against the car parks and we recover £4m, KK gets none of that. If we get £5.5m he might be in line to get a bit of that.

Tl;dr, I still think it's a huge stretch to conclude Ken would get anywhere near his £5m secured back on liquidation. Even if there is a fairly large amount still in the club (which I doubt there is).

Re: Ken's current account. There's been no explanation as to how he's got the cash out. You can't just pay money from a company bank account into your own. Tax-wise it's historically been cheaper to pay it as some kind of loan, but the loan-book is an asset and doesn't disappear on liquidation. If Ken has been loaned money by ICI then he will either have to pay it back on liquidation or it will be an asset ICI can sell on liquidation. Either way Ken can't just say "oh well, that's mine now, ICI doesn't exist any more, cheers lads".

If it's a dividend well then he's going be struggling as well because they have to be paid out of "distributable profits" and no fecking way has ICI made £13m since he took over.

I can't see how he's got that out cleanly finally and legally. At all.

And I also can't see how he's an "expert" in accountancy and liquidation. Like describing Harold Shipman as an expert in clinical negligence.

I think we're getting a bit circular now, but I am no nearer being convinced that he's better off if we go bust (and I'd suggest our seeking another adjournment back this up - this conversation started because you predicted we wouldn't contest today).
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:52 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:43 pm
Re: the assets, I don't know this and so could be wrong but I'd be gobsmacked, call me Fanny and tickle me pink, if we had £13m of realisable assets on liquidation in total. Not book value, but cash money sellable assets. For what? Who's buying the ground, the training ground, the players? And for how much. You might get a Coventry style vulture trying to buy the ground on the cheap and lease it back to the NewCo but for how much? Not like there are any other teams going to buy it. And then there's who else has security over what. Have I made up that e.g. Thingy James has loans secured against the car park. Assuming Krooked K has a floating charge he only starts recovering from proceeds on particular assets after fixed creditors have been repaid (if their charge is fixed against that asset). So if MJ has £5m against the car parks and we recover £4m, KK gets none of that. If we get £5.5m he might be in line to get a bit of that.

Tl;dr, I still think it's a huge stretch to conclude Ken would get anywhere near his £5m secured back on liquidation. Even if there is a fairly large amount still in the club (which I doubt there is).

Re: Ken's current account. There's been no explanation as to how he's got the cash out. You can't just pay money from a company bank account into your own. Tax-wise it's historically been cheaper to pay it as some kind of loan, but the loan-book is an asset and doesn't disappear on liquidation. If Ken has been loaned money by ICI then he will either have to pay it back on liquidation or it will be an asset ICI can sell on liquidation. Either way Ken can't just say "oh well, that's mine now, ICI doesn't exist any more, cheers lads".

If it's a dividend well then he's going be struggling as well because they have to be paid out of "distributable profits" and no fecking way has ICI made £13m since he took over.

I can't see how he's got that out cleanly finally and legally. At all.

And I also can't see how he's an "expert" in accountancy and liquidation. Like describing Harold Shipman as an expert in clinical negligence.

I think we're getting a bit circular now, but I am no nearer being convinced that he's better off if we go bust (and I'd suggest our seeking another adjournment back this up - this conversation started because you predicted we wouldn't contest today).
This. Ken's a bad, bad man. But the amount of conspiracy and cobbling together unverified facts here and elsewhere, goes with the territory. The truth is usually far less interesting.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:00 pm

^^Yes, I mean there was always going to be a lot of heat if he went for liquidation, that was always the argument against him going for it, even if he wanted to. Was Hilary begging for 7 days, hoping not to get it? I am sure Ken didn't want a 35 day extension!

He is the sole director of ICI. Could he have transferred the £13m to Yes-I-am-Ken-and-I've-fecked-you-over Ltd? All that is apparently known is that it isn't in ICI, and BWFC haven't paid back the factoring loan company. This was all apparently discovered in the forensic accounting that Basran did.

So I am saying liquidation as high as £26m. Non liquidation as low as £5m. Bassini minimum £18m, probably with some kind of pay off on top no questions asked. The other downside to liquidation was that there would be an investigation with Ken likely to be asked awkward questions. So Ken might consider Bassini the best outcome.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:06 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:52 pm

This. Ken's a bad, bad man. But the amount of conspiracy and cobbling together unverified facts here and elsewhere, goes with the territory. The truth is usually far less interesting.
Apart from ones opinion on asset value on liquidation, the numbers here have all been verified:

1.) Basran's forensic accounting, reported by the media.
2.) Moonshift loan to ICI is fact! The £3m unsecured part of it you might want to dispute I guess...

Important not to dismiss. Go challenge, go verify, ask questions, but I wouldn't be writing it here if I had not done all of that, and didn't have faith in it's accuracy...

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:08 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:06 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:52 pm

This. Ken's a bad, bad man. But the amount of conspiracy and cobbling together unverified facts here and elsewhere, goes with the territory. The truth is usually far less interesting.
Apart from ones opinion on asset value on liquidation, the numbers here have all been verified:

1.) Basran's forensic accounting, reported by the media.
2.) Moonshift loan to ICI is fact! The £3m unsecured part of it you might want to dispute I guess...

Important not to dismiss. Go challenge, go verify, ask questions, but I wouldn't be writing it here if I had not done all of that, and didn't have faith in it's accuracy...
See - I've not seen that phrase in the media. I've not seen numbers in the media. Just that Basran pulled out due to uncovering extra debts in DD. Those debts were ascribed to council, emergency services, contractors etc...

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by jmjhb » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:12 pm

Hilary was begging for admin!

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:15 pm

jmjhb wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:12 pm
Hilary was begging for admin!
Aye, I find that interesting. Begging for admin because she feared liquidation?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Enoch » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:27 pm

So a bloke who went out of his way to hide his identity gave his name to the first stranger that asked and a barrister got down and begged for forgiveness.

Really.

What would Rumpole have made of it all!

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