Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[Jim_McDonuts]

There is the possibility he's not the one with any dough (and some other backer involved with him has it) - but then you'd have to question why they'd put this fruit loop up front in the deal, rather than someone normal.

Well, in terms of the 'attention economy' he certainly makes a mark.

#smoke'n'mirrors'n'daggers

#HowardToo

[Worthy4England]

If it’s (Howard) a wind up it’s a bloody elaborate one, and rather pointless one at that.

I’m just fecked off with talking about it to be honest. Utterly pointless and nothing we can do to influence the situation.

Agree Dibs, they'd have had to have devoted all their spare time to the wind-up to put as much credibility around it as they have - not beyond the bounds of possibility, but you'd have to ask "why"?

[bristol_Wanderer3]

So you're saying Ken doesn't care about the £ in his pocket and will do himself out of lots of money just to spite the club? I cannot see that. Honestly.

He runs the risk of liquidation and if you're going to believe that dude and his mystery party story then Ken does not want liquidation as he'll almost certainly be liable...that is if you believe him, which you seem to, and I don't. Not really.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. I think any deal that gets struck is similar for Ken, on the face of it. He doesn't really lose either way, he never invested anything into the club in the first place. So I think:

1.) Ken has been using his own company (ICI) in combination with the club to manipulate money that belongs to the club to his own benefit. There have been rumblings about this for some time, but if Howard is to be believed, then he/she goes into it on the other site. Factoring of fees/income into ICI accounts etc, hidden debt etc. This way of operating fits entirely with Ken's history. There is some value in this not being exposed publicly.

2.) Ken is not a businessman. He is a middleman, dodgy accountant type, who operates on the edge of legality. He is also very narcissistic. Witness his flurry of kolumn's when Dale Vince challenged his reputation, his recent truth challenged kolumns are really an attempt to cleanse his own reputation. Imho it will be important to him not to come out of this being known as a terrible, dodgy, criminal owner who almost destroyed the club, in light of everything being positive under a new regime. He might also have had a very bad reaction to the protests, to being told he isn't welcome at the club, chants against him etc.

3.) Imho his ideal is to be able to control the narrative post takeover, and ideally still be able to use some or all of his current, personally rewarding methods of running the club. Ken could easily convert his secured creditor status into equity in a Bassini/Richards regime with Aldridge running the show and ICI still active behind the scenes.

4.) If it came to it, if there was a way in which he could avoid big financial/criminal penalties under liquidation, I believe he would choose that rather than being exposed under a successful new regime. His history is in insolvency, this is his area of expertise.

If it was simply about money why are we in this situation? Look at the amount of interest in the club when it makes no financial sense whatsoever. If Ken wanted a clean £5m-£10m profit he could've had it at any time over the last 12-18 months. It has been said by a few people that most will not deal with Ken, and now look at the Basran bid, and (if real) Howard's buyers. He deters every outside bid even when the club can't afford to keep the lights on.

Anyway I have been wanting to be completely wrong about Ken and our situation since September, so I desperately hope that happens very soon. Maybe Howards's group is real and they use their bargaining chip of the Moonshift recall option to get Ken out? Not optimistic but as ever crossing everything.

[BWFC_Insane]

So you're saying Ken doesn't care about the £ in his pocket and will do himself out of lots of money just to spite the club? I cannot see that. Honestly.

He runs the risk of liquidation and if you're going to believe that dude and his mystery party story then Ken does not want liquidation as he'll almost certainly be liable...that is if you believe him, which you seem to, and I don't. Not really.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. I think any deal that gets struck is similar for Ken, on the face of it. He doesn't really lose either way, he never invested anything into the club in the first place. So I think:

1.) Ken has been using his own company (ICI) in combination with the club to manipulate money that belongs to the club to his own benefit. There have been rumblings about this for some time, but if Howard is to be believed, then he/she goes into it on the other site. Factoring of fees/income into ICI accounts etc, hidden debt etc. This way of operating fits entirely with Ken's history. There is some value in this not being exposed publicly.

2.) Ken is not a businessman. He is a middleman, dodgy accountant type, who operates on the edge of legality. He is also very narcissistic. Witness his flurry of kolumn's when Dale Vince challenged his reputation, his recent truth challenged kolumns are really an attempt to cleanse his own reputation. Imho it will be important to him not to come out of this being known as a terrible, dodgy, criminal owner who almost destroyed the club, in light of everything being positive under a new regime. He might also have had a very bad reaction to the protests, to being told he isn't welcome at the club, chants against him etc.

3.) Imho his ideal is to be able to control the narrative post takeover, and ideally still be able to use some or all of his current, personally rewarding methods of running the club. Ken could easily convert his secured creditor status into equity in a Bassini/Richards regime with Aldridge running the show and ICI still active behind the scenes.

4.) If it came to it, if there was a way in which he could avoid big financial/criminal penalties under liquidation, I believe he would choose that rather than being exposed under a successful new regime. His history is in insolvency, this is his area of expertise.

If it was simply about money why are we in this situation? Look at the amount of interest in the club when it makes no financial sense whatsoever. If Ken wanted a clean £5m-£10m profit he could've had it at any time over the last 12-18 months. It has been said by a few people that most will not deal with Ken, and now look at the Basran bid, and (if real) Howard's buyers. He deters every outside bid even when the club can't afford to keep the lights on.

Anyway I have been wanting to be completely wrong about Ken and our situation since September, so I desperately hope that happens very soon. Maybe Howards's group is real and they use their bargaining chip of the Moonshift recall option to get Ken out? Not optimistic but as ever crossing everything.

I suspect that in our current plight there might be some who'd take us on and hope to turn us round with some investment having cleared the debt. Not many though who would also pay a "chairman's bonus" along the way.

No chance has KA ever been offered 5-10M profit ever! That would have seen him off in a flash. Personally I think you're buying into a narrative here.

Ken is a wrong'un no doubt. But ED was trying to sell the club for years and couldn't. Ken is struggling in similar fashion. There will always be the "this would be fine if ED/KA or whoever weren't involved" and I've no doubt Ken's brinkmanship doesn't help. But he wants a profit. The business isn't worth paying him one. That to me is the cold hard light of the situation we're in. Does he want to risk scrutiny of his running of the club via liquidation. If (as is widely expected) they find he's been running it insolvently - then he's liable for that.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Well, I guess we'll know tomorrow or Wednesday whether he's been having us all on or not

I don't know what he's been saying. Can you summarise the Wisdom of Howard for me?

Quick spin.

"Howard's party" have the cash to buy outright (including wiping the debts). They've asked Moonshift to call the shares in as Anderson is in breach of his legal obligations in relation to the loan from Moonshift. Moonshift did this day before previous Court hearing which set a 14 day timer. At end of 14 day timer, either Anderson would need to pay up the readies owed or shares would revert to Moonshift which "Howard's party" would then buy off Moonshift....

Is the broad essence.

Thanks. That leaves me with three questions:
Is Howard a party to Howard's Party or just a commentator?
So if Moonshift have called the shares in, doesn't this mean Moonshift are liable for all debts
So why didn't Moonshift announce a rights issue and take control that way without exposing themselves to multimillion pound debts they didn't run up???

Q1 - Allegedly not (but appears somehow connected, possibly to Moonshift)
Q2 - Not until they transact - but the understanding is they'd put words around it so the shares would revert straight to Mystery Buyer.
Q3 - They don't legally own the shares at this juncture Anderson does (and they don't actually want to). So they couldn't. The issue is around default on payment.

...ok. That puts a different spin on Howard. A commentator who knows something, possibly.
Still leaves a sour taste, in my mouth, that he's using Wanderers Way rather than normal journalistic routes, if he's real.
As you say: we'll find out soon. By Wednesday morning he'll be Howard Taft or Howard The Duck.

[Enoch]

So why didn't Moonshift announce a rights issue and take control that way without exposing themselves to multimillion pound debts they didn't run up???

[Worthy4England]

Well, I guess we'll know tomorrow or Wednesday whether he's been having us all on or not

I don't know what he's been saying. Can you summarise the Wisdom of Howard for me?

Quick spin.

"Howard's party" have the cash to buy outright (including wiping the debts). They've asked Moonshift to call the shares in as Anderson is in breach of his legal obligations in relation to the loan from Moonshift. Moonshift did this day before previous Court hearing which set a 14 day timer. At end of 14 day timer, either Anderson would need to pay up the readies owed or shares would revert to Moonshift which "Howard's party" would then buy off Moonshift....

Is the broad essence.

Thanks. That leaves me with three questions:
Is Howard a party to Howard's Party or just a commentator?
So if Moonshift have called the shares in, doesn't this mean Moonshift are liable for all debts
So why didn't Moonshift announce a rights issue and take control that way without exposing themselves to multimillion pound debts they didn't run up???

Q1 - Allegedly not (but appears somehow connected, possibly to Moonshift)
Q2 - Not until they transact - but the understanding is they'd put words around it so the shares would revert straight to Mystery Buyer.
Q3 - They don't legally own the shares at this juncture Anderson does (and they don't actually want to). So they couldn't. The issue is around default on payment.

...ok. That puts a different spin on Howard. A commentator who knows something, possibly.
Still leaves a sour taste, in my mouth, that he's using Wanderers Way rather than normal journalistic routes, if he's real.
As you say: we'll find out soon. By Wednesday morning he'll be Howard Taft or Howard The Duck.

There is allegedly a legal challenge by Anderson to the share recall on the grounds that issuer of the recall isn't the original owner (which I suspect would re-set the 14 day timer if successful).

Combine that with "M'lud, we're closer than we've ever been, and certainly a lot closer than two weeks ago" and it's not at all inconceivable that everyone is "as you were" on Wednesday...

[bristol_Wanderer3]

I suspect that in our current plight there might be some who'd take us on and hope to turn us round with some investment having cleared the debt. Not many though who would also pay a "chairman's bonus" along the way.

No chance has KA ever been offered 5-10M profit ever! That would have seen him off in a flash. Personally I think you're buying into a narrative here.

Ken is a wrong'un no doubt. But ED was trying to sell the club for years and couldn't. Ken is struggling in similar fashion. There will always be the "this would be fine if ED/KA or whoever weren't involved" and I've no doubt Ken's brinkmanship doesn't help. But he wants a profit. The business isn't worth paying him one. That to me is the cold hard light of the situation we're in. Does he want to risk scrutiny of his running of the club via liquidation. If (as is widely expected) they find he's been running it insolvently - then he's liable for that.

Well Howard is suggesting that their group is offering a £2m clean pay off for Ken as part of their deal. And £4m is being mentioned around the Bassini proposal. Add to that what he has paid himself and his family over the years, and what he has gained through his dodgy dealings and I would suggest you are already in £5m-£10m profit territory.

If Howard is to be believed their group are talking about £38m-£40m initially, and £35m over three years. As nonsensical as that seems, it shows there is genuine money around even in us now with ridiculous amounts of hidden debt and poor footballing prospects. I don't think a chairman's bonus would've ever been a problem.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Well, I guess we'll know tomorrow or Wednesday whether he's been having us all on or not

I don't know what he's been saying. Can you summarise the Wisdom of Howard for me?

Quick spin.

"Howard's party" have the cash to buy outright (including wiping the debts). They've asked Moonshift to call the shares in as Anderson is in breach of his legal obligations in relation to the loan from Moonshift. Moonshift did this day before previous Court hearing which set a 14 day timer. At end of 14 day timer, either Anderson would need to pay up the readies owed or shares would revert to Moonshift which "Howard's party" would then buy off Moonshift....

Is the broad essence.

Thanks. That leaves me with three questions:
Is Howard a party to Howard's Party or just a commentator?
So if Moonshift have called the shares in, doesn't this mean Moonshift are liable for all debts
So why didn't Moonshift announce a rights issue and take control that way without exposing themselves to multimillion pound debts they didn't run up???

Q1 - Allegedly not (but appears somehow connected, possibly to Moonshift)
Q2 - Not until they transact - but the understanding is they'd put words around it so the shares would revert straight to Mystery Buyer.
Q3 - They don't legally own the shares at this juncture Anderson does (and they don't actually want to). So they couldn't. The issue is around default on payment.

...ok. That puts a different spin on Howard. A commentator who knows something, possibly.
Still leaves a sour taste, in my mouth, that he's using Wanderers Way rather than normal journalistic routes, if he's real.
As you say: we'll find out soon. By Wednesday morning he'll be Howard Taft or Howard The Duck.

There is allegedly a legal challenge by Anderson to the share recall on the grounds that issuer of the recall isn't the original owner (which I suspect would re-set the 14 day timer if successful).

Combine that with "M'lud, we're closer than we've ever been, and certainly a lot closer than two weeks ago" and it's not at all inconceivable that everyone is "as you were" on Wednesday...

I've never had any doubt that Wednesday will not be our demise. Even if Ken turned up naked waving a zombie knife the judge will postpone again. They'll postpone until the end of the season to get the EFL out of the biggest shitpile they've yet faced.
What happens after that is where we need to chew fingernails...

[bristol_Wanderer3]

I think there will be an adjournment on Wednesday too. There is too much evidence of interest not to allow some extra time to supposedly sort things out.

That begs the question; Will Ken pay the wages and all the parties required to get the home games on?

[Worthy4England]

Players refusing to train allegedly...

[BWFC_Insane]

The problem with an adjournment if granted is someone has to pay the bills to get the staff paid to get the game on, this Saturday - and the players 14 day walk away clock has also re-started....

[jimbo]

Players refusing to train allegedly...

Fair enough. I’d eventually stop going to work if I stopped being paid.

[jmjhb]

Not sure the players are in on Mondays anyway...

[officer_dibble]

Players refusing to train allegedly...

This is legit - been on g m r.

Ken’s a proper c u n t isn’t he.

That shouldn’t be filtered!!

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Oh shit...

For anyone not tuned into the other site:

1.) Ken is challenging the validity of the letter informing of him the option to recall the shares (claiming it was sent to wrong address).
2.) Bassini has seemingly crashed and burned...
3.) Ken likely to start the process of liquidating the club....

Situation evolving rapidly...

[DJBlu]

I don't like being the one to bring this news, however it appears the deal is complete with Bassini.

Talk about a let down.

[TANGODANCER]

What's the betting we won't be seeing much of beloved chairman for a while?

[TKIZ!]

Defo an April fools. No way has Bassini got any money

[DJBlu]

Defo an April fools. No way has Bassini got any money

Really wish people would respect the rules of April fools.

Thought it stopped at midday.

Just relaying what I'm reading.