The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:37 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:27 pm
Agree
Fcuk the clowns off and keep the two that are trying.
That's a bit harsh! Their absence has coincided with an upturn in our form but Burke, in particular, was one of our better performers in the first few games. Much better than the far more experienced Beevers in a back 3.

Cullen I felt was largely played out of position and his development would have been better served playing in a winning side a division lower.

Neither were clowns and played without effort
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:42 pm

You are too soft
Both donkeys

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Nicko58 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:47 pm

I agree with Harry Genshaw. I don't think that either of them are terrible players, but it just doesn't look as though we're the right sort of team for them. Whether they're any good or not though, their failure to hold down a starting place here has bugger all to do with a lack of effort.
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am

Agreed with Nicko and Harry. They're not lazy players or terrible players, but they were young players in a terrible team, and correlation ≠ causation. They might yet have a role to play – Burke would be my first back-up for Wheavers, and I'd still worry about the relative lack of pace and movement at centre-back – but I would understand if the loans weren't extended.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:10 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am
Agreed with Nicko and Harry. They're not lazy players or terrible players, but they were young players in a terrible team, and correlation ≠ causation. They might yet have a role to play – Burke would be my first back-up for Wheavers, and I'd still worry about the relative lack of pace and movement at centre-back – but I would understand if the loans weren't extended.
Yes definitely not lazy. I see a big difference between the two, and I hope they don't come or go as a package. Cullen to me isn't ready for this level. Clearly he impressed at Bradford, but there is an ever widening chasm between L1 and the Championship, and he doesn't seem to have the attributes of a successful central midfielder at a level higher than that. His biggest problem is his lack of ability to get round the pitch and then if he isn't going to be a dynamic type, to win tackles or headers. And he is too young and inexperienced to be a leader or organizer. So he just ends up a weak link.

Burke on the other hand, does have a lot of ability imho. He seems to have all the attributes to play at this level and the Premiership. He can do all the defensive work, and is pretty quick and excellent either running with the ball or passing it. He made some positioning mistakes and was playing in a chaotic, hopelessly out of their depth team. I understand there is a sense that Wheavers provide something greater than the sum of their parts, but at some point I would like to see him back in our current, improved team. If he can strike an understanding with another one of our central defenders I think he could really improve our team. I would like us to keep him at least till the end of the season, and who knows, if he is priced reasonably to be in the running to buy him if West Ham let him go. It would be a good investment imo.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:56 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Bit of a rock and a hard place with Burke, I feel. If he plays exceptionally well and we want him, the price ticket will appear. If not, we gain nothing either way. Like playing poker with a man with more money than you.
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Dr Hotdog » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:21 pm

I know we signed Henry and he's been a solid addition to the midfield, but it's worth noting that 30-year old Yousuf Mulumbu has just signed with Killmarnock til the end of the campaign, oh and Chris Eagles has been re-united with Owen Coyle at Ross County... :lol:

I rated Mulumbu and was surprised when he didn't get an offer from a league 1 / lower level Champo club. Money can't have been a sticking point as he's just gone to fecking Scotland!!

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:33 pm

Dr Hotdog wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:21 pm
I know we signed Henry and he's been a solid addition to the midfield, but it's worth noting that 30-year old Yousuf Mulumbu has just signed with Killmarnock til the end of the campaign, oh and Chris Eagles has been re-united with Owen Coyle at Ross County... :lol:

I rated Mulumbu and was surprised when he didn't get an offer from a league 1 / lower level Champo club. Money can't have been a sticking point as he's just gone to fecking Scotland!!
According to the Birmingham Mail he was on 30kpw at West Brom. Key to the Killie deal was that his old Baggies boss Steve Clarke's the gaffer there now - but as you say, I doubt he's on a bank-busting wedge.


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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by boltonboris » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:28 pm

He signed up with a new agent just after the summer window closed, Vela. Which considering he had almost 2 years left on a contract, not long since renewed, made me think there might be something around the corner for him
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:21 pm

Given our present situation, getting rid of one of our best players will be a bit of a kick in the nuts. No real surprise though, we rarely get to keep any real class players because everybody around us has more money. His new agent is probably already on the track of a bonus.
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:03 pm

He will go if a decent team offers decent money. KA said we will lose £5M this season, and he would cover it. Anyone honestly think he will dip into his own money to cover it for, at the very best survival and the need to cover up another loss next year.

His missives about small crowds suggest he's not seeing the gate income he thought he would. He will use that as the perfect excuse.

Football wise will be a disaster. Selling Clough pretty much worked out. But Vela is absolutely key to our high workrate game.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:36 am

I like Vela a lot and would be sad to see him go but needs must and £5m would go a long way. Knowing how desperate we are though, will anyone offer us more than say £2.5m?
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:36 am
I like Vela a lot and would be sad to see him go but needs must and £5m would go a long way. Knowing how desperate we are though, will anyone offer us more than say £2.5m?
No point whatsoever selling at those prices in January. Getting relegated costs us £5m in TV revenue alone, never mind reduced crowds, ticket prices, sponsorship deals. If he stays we have a reasonable chance to stay up. If we are going to put our Championship life on the line in January,we need the sale to fetch £10m+. At least then we can stabilize and cover all losses for a year or two, and have a bit of money to sign a couple of young, promising replacements. Otherwise wait until the summer and let those just promoted to the Prem, and/or those in receipt of parachute payments get into a bidding war for him.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:03 am

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:36 am
I like Vela a lot and would be sad to see him go but needs must and £5m would go a long way. Knowing how desperate we are though, will anyone offer us more than say £2.5m?
No point whatsoever selling at those prices in January. Getting relegated costs us £5m in TV revenue alone, never mind reduced crowds, ticket prices, sponsorship deals. If he stays we have a reasonable chance to stay up. If we are going to put our Championship life on the line in January,we need the sale to fetch £10m+. At least then we can stabilize and cover all losses for a year or two, and have a bit of money to sign a couple of young, promising replacements. Otherwise wait until the summer and let those just promoted to the Prem, and/or those in receipt of parachute payments get into a bidding war for him.
Staying up means we're still losing 5M a year. What would convince Ken to invest that money needed, only to have to find it again next year?

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:25 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:03 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:36 am
I like Vela a lot and would be sad to see him go but needs must and £5m would go a long way. Knowing how desperate we are though, will anyone offer us more than say £2.5m?
No point whatsoever selling at those prices in January. Getting relegated costs us £5m in TV revenue alone, never mind reduced crowds, ticket prices, sponsorship deals. If he stays we have a reasonable chance to stay up. If we are going to put our Championship life on the line in January,we need the sale to fetch £10m+. At least then we can stabilize and cover all losses for a year or two, and have a bit of money to sign a couple of young, promising replacements. Otherwise wait until the summer and let those just promoted to the Prem, and/or those in receipt of parachute payments get into a bidding war for him.
Staying up means we're still losing 5M a year. What would convince Ken to invest that money needed, only to have to find it again next year?
But going down means we would be losing more than £5m per year, because we wouldn't be able to trim the wage bill by £5m - £6m to cover the shortfall in income in L1. Plus staying up means any players we sell we get more for, there is more chance of purchasers/investors being interested, and that we could sell Vela for more in the summer. Ken is in a very exposed place. This business will only ever make a loss, and he probably can't afford to cover it. Therefore if we sell or only saleable asset it needs to do more than cover 6months-12months losses whilst giving us a very good chance of descending to a horrible place for the club both financially and sporting, and probably ensuring Ken is stuck with it.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:30 am

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:25 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:03 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:36 am
I like Vela a lot and would be sad to see him go but needs must and £5m would go a long way. Knowing how desperate we are though, will anyone offer us more than say £2.5m?
No point whatsoever selling at those prices in January. Getting relegated costs us £5m in TV revenue alone, never mind reduced crowds, ticket prices, sponsorship deals. If he stays we have a reasonable chance to stay up. If we are going to put our Championship life on the line in January,we need the sale to fetch £10m+. At least then we can stabilize and cover all losses for a year or two, and have a bit of money to sign a couple of young, promising replacements. Otherwise wait until the summer and let those just promoted to the Prem, and/or those in receipt of parachute payments get into a bidding war for him.
Staying up means we're still losing 5M a year. What would convince Ken to invest that money needed, only to have to find it again next year?
But going down means we would be losing more than £5m per year, because we wouldn't be able to trim the wage bill by £5m - £6m to cover the shortfall in income in L1. Plus staying up means any players we sell we get more for, there is more chance of purchasers/investors being interested, and that we could sell Vela for more in the summer. Ken is in a very exposed place. This business will only ever make a loss, and he probably can't afford to cover it. Therefore if we sell or only saleable asset it needs to do more than cover 6months-12months losses whilst giving us a very good chance of descending to a horrible place for the club both financially and sporting, and probably ensuring Ken is stuck with it.
Selling Vela, Beevers and Ameobi though would send us down but cover losses this season and a chunk of next too.

I personally think it entirely hinges on whether Ken believes there is a realistic chance of a full or partial buy-out soon. Otherwise he's stuck covering losses year after year with little to zero potential of seeing it back. KA isn't Eddie. He's simply not doing that.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:43 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:30 am

Selling Vela, Beevers and Ameobi though would send us down but cover losses this season and a chunk of next too.

I personally think it entirely hinges on whether Ken believes there is a realistic chance of a full or partial buy-out soon. Otherwise he's stuck covering losses year after year with little to zero potential of seeing it back. KA isn't Eddie. He's simply not doing that.
Beevers and Ameobi are out of contract at the end of the season anyway and wouldn't bring in a penny in January. If we can sell Vela for enough to cover losses for a couple of seasons, then by all means, I am all for it. But sums like £2.5m, or even £5m are just sticking plaster, when in reality he could be sold for more, particularly if clubs like Brighton are involved. We need to look at clubs like Brentford, who sold the likes of Scott Hogan for £10m to Villa last January, and Tarkowski to Burnley for £6m the January before. Those sales were to parachute payment receiving Championship clubs not Premiership clubs.

I agree Ken won't be putting much if any of his own money in. But as I said he is in a precarious position. In the Championship he has a chance of getting out of it as there is a chance of someone seeing us as an attractive proposition to buy knowing it only takes one Huddersfieldesque good season and he has quadrupled his investment. In L1 he, and us, with an expensive infrastructure and no saleable assets are screwed imho.

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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by boltonboris » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 pm

The Vela fee will be this £3m that Kenneth was hinting about getting in as additional revenue for half season tickets.

So when he flogs them, he can say, "well it's your own fault because not enough of you want to pay through the fvckin teeth for sub-standard football"
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Re: The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:42 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 pm
The Vela fee will be this £3m that Kenneth was hinting about getting in as additional revenue for half season tickets.

So when he flogs them, he can say, "well it's your own fault because not enough of you want to pay through the fvckin teeth for sub-standard football"
Is it really too much to expect 20K for a town the size of Bolton to support the team? Especially off the back of a promotion.

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