The Promotion Commotion Transfer Thread 2017

[BWFC_Insane]

If the style of play has to change, so be it. We couldn't hang on to Madine anyway if reports are correct.

Not as easy as that.. It's not just a 'style of play'.. It's a culture that has been ingrained into this club since 1999. We've tried changing it and suffered as a result. A direct, aggressive style is what the club has been accustomed to. Those changes don't happen overnight - It takes years.

Big Sam
Megson
Coyle
Freedman
Lennon
Parkinson

All of them, have at the most part, been at their/our most competitive when playing direct passes towards a solitary big man. It's who we are

At the moment that 'culture' is as strong as ever it was and I would suggest managers and coaches have been self-selecting on the basis that the ones appointed have, shall we say, a penchant for that style. Although even Samuel Allardiccio mixed it up at times, especially before Kevin Davies and when the lone striker was not available. Rarely, admittedly, but he didn't play every game of every season.

It is an opinion, (not mine I hasten to add) that whilst the lone striker can be very good at hold-up play there were long periods in KD's day when there was no one to lay off to or the ball bounced off his big chest into touch. You know the score with Madine. For a long time hopeless in getting the ball in the net. Remember Elmander (yes, he was an expensive disappointment) who quite often had the ball booted out of defence towards his head and if not accurate, way out of reach. I would contend that such a style of play when facing a competent defence is fairly useless. We should mix it up and play a lone striker - perhaps this Dutch guy - against only easily dominated opposition (if there is any of those any more) and a forward line of two or three committed players to maximise opportunities against others. After all Clough is small enough to go through the legs of tall defenders!

It is possible to still be aggressive and direct without a single big fat lad up top.

I suppose I am a bit of a romantic remembering the Rioch team of Mcginley and Walker. He got a song out of shortish forwards.

Well chaps, I rest my case. It is possible to get a win without a big fat lad up front.

Ameobi is quite a big lad. And as amazing as last night was that isn’t repeatable week in week out. We rode our luck at times. And a brilliant brilliant piece of individual skill got us the win. But you won’t do that every week.

There were times when Clough was up on his own and the ball simply kept coming back. It was late in the game and we were hanging on so that is fine. But it highlighted the need for someone to be able to hold the thing up.

[Harry Genshaw]

We do need someone to hold it up, make it stick. It doesn't need to be an SKD type target man. Brentford played us off the park with a lone forward no bigger than ALF.

Bold move by Parky last night bringing Morais on for Little but that gave us another outlet further up the pitch

[Bruce Rioja]

One decision of Parky's that I didn't understand last night, and said so at the time, was taking Little off and putting Morais on.
This said to me that as soon as Morais got forward we'd have a hole at RB with Dervite coming across to cover. This is exactly what happened and culminated in Dervite giving away what could have been a very costly free-kick on the corner of the box in added time, after he'd been skinned.
We were one up at the time, so unless Little had taken a knock i just don't understand the switch.

[GhostoftheBok]

Fairly sure we took Little off because he was shattered. The lad ran until he could barely walk, much like Ameobi by the end of the game. Bringing on Morais was a gamble, but presumably Parky thought it was less of a gamble than leaving on a player who could no longer make sprints.

On the Madine front, he's a big loss but we were never going to turn down a few million for a lad who'd have been lucky to attract a bid of a few hundred thousand at the start of the season. If he goes on to do big things then 5 or 6 million would still be good business for us and if he goes back to his old ways it'll be 5-6 times his market value in a couple of years. It's huge to lose our top scorer and the focal point of our attacking play (if you can call it that) this season, but I still think we can win enough games to stay up.

Shame we didn't get LCY back in, as he'd be worth several wins on his own at this level. There are a couple of decent freebies knocking around Europe who are looking to get a payday in England (even our low budgets are considered decent money compared to those on offer in other leagues), so you never know. Kramer (the lad linked in the BN) was decent at Den Haag. Not much of a finisher, but a sort of poor-man's Elmander, which in our position isn't a bad level of player. Pesquiera was looking for a club after he was released by that Turkish club I can't spell, so he's another option to grab on a short term deal.

I do feel for Parky and losing Madine makes staying up tougher. I still think we can do it, though. Clough is a good player at this level, if people can look after him and give him the ball in advanced positions. He and Ameobi give us options to get the ball forward at feet. Teams are doing okay in the Championship with worse footballers then them in their teams.

[TANGODANCER]

Fairly sure we took Little off because he was shattered. The lad ran until he could barely walk, much like Ameobi by the end of the game. Bringing on Morais was a gamble, but presumably Parky thought it was less of a gamble than leaving on a player who could no longer make sprints.

Was my reading of it. Sammi was visibly blowing a bit. We were going to be severely under pressure (the very fact that had allowed Sammi to sally at a sparsely defended area and score) and Morais was at least fresh legs. Little is a real asset, but I can at least understand Parky's thinking and action. Capitulating late on isn't unknown for the Whites and those three points were priceless. It might have had an element of gamble about it...but it paid off in the end.

[bedwetter2]

If the style of play has to change, so be it. We couldn't hang on to Madine anyway if reports are correct.

Not as easy as that.. It's not just a 'style of play'.. It's a culture that has been ingrained into this club since 1999. We've tried changing it and suffered as a result. A direct, aggressive style is what the club has been accustomed to. Those changes don't happen overnight - It takes years.

Big Sam
Megson
Coyle
Freedman
Lennon
Parkinson

All of them, have at the most part, been at their/our most competitive when playing direct passes towards a solitary big man. It's who we are

At the moment that 'culture' is as strong as ever it was and I would suggest managers and coaches have been self-selecting on the basis that the ones appointed have, shall we say, a penchant for that style. Although even Samuel Allardiccio mixed it up at times, especially before Kevin Davies and when the lone striker was not available. Rarely, admittedly, but he didn't play every game of every season.

It is an opinion, (not mine I hasten to add) that whilst the lone striker can be very good at hold-up play there were long periods in KD's day when there was no one to lay off to or the ball bounced off his big chest into touch. You know the score with Madine. For a long time hopeless in getting the ball in the net. Remember Elmander (yes, he was an expensive disappointment) who quite often had the ball booted out of defence towards his head and if not accurate, way out of reach. I would contend that such a style of play when facing a competent defence is fairly useless. We should mix it up and play a lone striker - perhaps this Dutch guy - against only easily dominated opposition (if there is any of those any more) and a forward line of two or three committed players to maximise opportunities against others. After all Clough is small enough to go through the legs of tall defenders!

It is possible to still be aggressive and direct without a single big fat lad up top.

I suppose I am a bit of a romantic remembering the Rioch team of Mcginley and Walker. He got a song out of shortish forwards.

Well chaps, I rest my case. It is possible to get a win without a big fat lad up front.

Ameobi is quite a big lad. And as amazing as last night was that isn’t repeatable week in week out. We rode our luck at times. And a brilliant brilliant piece of individual skill got us the win. But you won’t do that every week.

There were times when Clough was up on his own and the ball simply kept coming back. It was late in the game and we were hanging on so that is fine. But it highlighted the need for someone to be able to hold the thing up.

Who said anything about repeating that same performance week after week?
Ameobi is not a target man and he didn't play as one yesterday. But we did line up as I would have wanted although it did change during the game - from 3-4-3 initially - and we had far more possession than we have been used to this season.
There will be times when we get smashed but, as I said, in my opinion the doom and gloom has been overdone and I think we will stay up. Even without a target man.

[nelson66]

Far too may PANIC FANNIES on here
I've never been a member of the Gary Madine fan club and am thrilled to bits that he's gone, especially for the £6m(yeah right) we got for him
We will play better football without him, being multi rather than 1 dimensional

As I said back at the beginning of December
WE ARE STAYING UP I SAID WE ARE STAYING UP
WE ARE STAYING UP I SAID WE ARE STAYING UP
WE ARE STAYING UP I SAID WE ARE STAYING UP

Happy clappers rule !

[GhostoftheBok]

It's about the tools the manager has available to do his job. Parky will be manager until the end of the season, regardless. If he can see fewer routes to success then losing Madine is a bad thing - regardless of whether individual fans rate him or not.

Maybe another manager would have had Madine on the bench as plan B and got a few more points, but with how Parky has viewed the squad Madine has been on of the bright spots.

We scraped through last night; but even with a changed system we'd have been better off with Madine up there and we didn't exactly play like Barcelona. We played the same way Parky's teams always play, just without a centre forward.

From what I've seen of Parky at Bolton and Bradford he needs a centre forward he can rely on for his teams to work. Like him or not, that was Madine. I'm not sure we have anyone in the squad who can do that job over the rest of the season, but we'll find out. Maybe Parky is more versatile than I give him credit for.

[Harry Genshaw]

One decision of Parky's that I didn't understand last night, and said so at the time, was taking Little off and putting Morais on.
This said to me that as soon as Morais got forward we'd have a hole at RB with Dervite coming across to cover. This is exactly what happened and culminated in Dervite giving away what could have been a very costly free-kick on the corner of the box in added time, after he'd been skinned.
We were one up at the time, so unless Little had taken a knock i just don't understand the switch.

I didn't see it like that. To me we were playing 3-5-2 with Little playing as a wing back. Bringing Morais on was a gamble because he's not as defensively minded but offers more going forward and on set pieces. We did the same switch at Millwall when were behind to give us a greater attacking option and it worked.

Last night it helped us to hold the ball further up the park bur less solid at the back. I take your point re that last minute free kick. I was bricking it!

[BWFC_Insane]

Little worked very hard. I think Morais was just to give us some legs to help get us up the pitch. It would have worked perfectly had Zach kept his shot down.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Far too may PANIC FANNIES on here
I've never been a member of the Gary Madine fan club and am thrilled to bits that he's gone, especially for the £6m(yeah right) we got for him
We will play better football without him, being multi rather than 1 dimensional

As I said back at the beginning of December
WE ARE STAYING UP I SAID WE ARE STAYING UP
WE ARE STAYING UP I SAID WE ARE STAYING UP
WE ARE STAYING UP I SAID WE ARE STAYING UP

Happy clappers rule !

Are you on drugs?

[GhostoftheBok]

People used to make the same argument about dropping Kevin Davies. Drop him and the football will improve, they said. Turned out to be nonsense, because we didn’t have the players to outplay teams at that level. We’ve not currently got the players to outplay Championship sides. We can stay up, but we are not going to do it by suddenly turning into some amazing footballing side - it’ll be through pure graft. Our most talented ball-playing centre mid is Josh Vela. We are not going to be threading passes with the players we have available.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Iles twittering the Madine fee is £6m with £4.5m up front...

[Harry Genshaw]

People used to make the same argument about dropping Kevin Davies. Drop him and the football will improve, they said. Turned out to be nonsense, because we didn’t have the players to outplay teams at that level. We’ve not currently got the players to outplay Championship sides. We can stay up, but we are not going to do it by suddenly turning into some amazing footballing side - it’ll be through pure graft. Our most talented ball-playing centre mid is Josh Vela. We are not going to be threading passes with the players we have available.

There's certainly some truth in that but one of our more regular posters on here was arguing the same last season, when were in a lower tier.

The idea that against Chesterfield at home last season with no Madine, we had to spend 90 minutes launching the ball over Alfs head because we couldn't compete with them at football, was ridiculous.

Our players aren't going to turn into Eden Hazard overnight but the idea they can't do the basics, pass and move at speed and have to rely on the long ball all the time is garbage imo

[BWFC_Insane]

People used to make the same argument about dropping Kevin Davies. Drop him and the football will improve, they said. Turned out to be nonsense, because we didn’t have the players to outplay teams at that level. We’ve not currently got the players to outplay Championship sides. We can stay up, but we are not going to do it by suddenly turning into some amazing footballing side - it’ll be through pure graft. Our most talented ball-playing centre mid is Josh Vela. We are not going to be threading passes with the players we have available.

Exactly. I’m not sure why people can’t see that. We were superb last night but you simply can’t do that every week. We need to find someone we can throw balls into the box at. Teams not as good as Bristol City will sit deeper and not let us break on them and so at times we will need a target. Dervite and Beevers and Wheater also need someone to aim for. Whilst Ameobi was a great outlet it needs someone up there to win headers sometimes.

Whoever we get isn’t going to be like Madine they won’t likely be fit enough to play every game nor will they likely be as central to us. But Ameobi and Clough will benefit at times from having someone who makes the ball stick and let’s them do their work in the final third as opposed to chasing the length of the pitch.

[BWFC_Insane]

People used to make the same argument about dropping Kevin Davies. Drop him and the football will improve, they said. Turned out to be nonsense, because we didn’t have the players to outplay teams at that level. We’ve not currently got the players to outplay Championship sides. We can stay up, but we are not going to do it by suddenly turning into some amazing footballing side - it’ll be through pure graft. Our most talented ball-playing centre mid is Josh Vela. We are not going to be threading passes with the players we have available.

There's certainly some truth in that but one of our more regular posters on here was arguing the same last season, when were in a lower tier.

The idea that against Chesterfield at home last season with no Madine, we had to spend 90 minutes launching the ball over Alfs head because we couldn't compete with them at football, was ridiculous.

Our players aren't going to turn into Eden Hazard overnight but the idea they can't do the basics, pass and move at speed and have to rely on the long ball all the time is garbage imo

The problem with ALF is he doesn’t do enough. All three of Walker, Ameobi and Clough worked far harder even just chasing lost causes than ALF ever does.

I think it’s clear that we aren’t going to pass through sides. Nor can we carry a striker who simply wants chances laid on in the box and beyond that offers little else. Clough and Ameobi can score a goal out of nothing. Walker worked hard and has pace.

[GhostoftheBok]

I don't think any side needs to hoof the ball for 90 minutes, but you do need a reliable Plan 'A' that can win get you goals. The lads can put a few passes together during the course of a match, but I don't think we've anyone on the books who can reliably create good chances with through-balls. Our Plan 'A' was getting the ball direct to Madine and using his physical presence to give us a foothold in the final third. Without that, it's hard to see what this squad can do well enough to reliably win games. I'm not sure the players and manager know that themselves and it's something they'll need to figure out bloody quickly. We should have enough to survive if we put the yards in every game, but we'd all like to kick on and be a bit more comfortable.

Clearly we have weapons in the arsenal. A bit of pace from Ameobi, dribbling and movement from Clough, hard running from Vela and down both flanks from Little and Robinson etc. The question I have is how it all adds up to regular goals.

If we'd signed a proper playmaker in the window then we have players in the ranks who could have taken advantage of that. Clough and Walker have both come in and need that creativity to play their best football - but as Walker was supposed to be feeding off Madine we clearly didn't plan on needing that passing option. I'd say we need that type in anyway if we are going 3 at the back, but it's hard to imagine us getting one the couple of free agents available in Europe who can do it reliably in the Championship. The only lad at the club now who has it in his locker is Karacan and he's not pulled up any trees when given a chance. You're not going to see passes finding a runner if you've got Henry and Derik pulling the string from midfield.

[Prufrock]

I think we're getting close to reverse-Andranik syndrome with Nadine. For the vast majority of last season and for chunks of the start of this he was a massive fecking tart who, if he didn't win the first few headers of the game, resorted to falling over and whinging at the ref. He's been playing very well for the last couple of months but the reason he was so essential for so long was a lack of anyone vaguely competent to remotely lead the line in this absence rather than him being sparkling.

Thought Walker showed enough yesterday to get a run. Ran the channels well, dragged their centre-halves where they didn't want to go, made it stick in to feet. Different sort of line leader, and tbf he's played an hour so we're a long way from him being the answer, but he might be. If he is, the rest of squad looks miles stronger.

[Prufrock]

Also, the Little sub, totally understood him coming off, he'd done a hell of a shift, was just very surprised it wasn't Flanagan coming on.

Robinson is miiiiiles away from being good enough defensively, last night he genuinely lost his man (the same man) three times in twenty seconds. That said he was a huge outlet going forward and is well worth his spot in that formation. Said last year one of the reasons I hated 352 was it killed Taylor who had been one of our better players. Suits Robinson down to the ground.

[GhostoftheBok]

It's not so much who he was as what he was. Madine has shown that he can be a good centre forward in the Championship, whereas before he had potential but had only ever really cut it in League One. We've built our attacking play around having that centre forward up top to play off and around, so not having one will shake things up a bit. It's not that Madine is some god-like player who led us to glory, he's just a good centre forward and we've not got another. Even with him in the side we've not shown enough yet to be confident of getting safe. With him gone there are even more question marks. Hopefully Parky can find enough in the players we have to get us safe and then over the summer he can have a look at rebuilding. I couldn't give two shits about Madine himself, I do care that our top scorer and the focal point of our attack needs replacing somehow.