Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

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Should BWFC sack Phil Parkinson?

Yes
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45%
No
38
55%
 
Total votes: 69

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:20 am

Tombwfc wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:38 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:58 am
"Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.
At that point we were bottom of the league, 11 points from safety with nine games to play. And the relationship between the manager and pretty much everyone was toxic. Jimmy might not have done any better (although arguably not regularly getting pissed in Fanny's and starting fights with the centre forward is some form of better), but he definitely didn't do any worse.
I guess it depends how you define "worse", really. Compared to Jimmy's reign, in Lennon's last nine games we got more points, scored more than twice as many goals and conceded fewer, and we were never beaten by more than one goal, which happened three times in the nine games under Jimmy. We had people flying banners at Derby saying "No effort no hope", and I didn't notice an asterisk excusing the caretaker. I'm not saying Lennon shouldn't have gone, and like a few I probably said yeah give Jimmy a go, but it's demonstrably statistically false to say he didn't do any worse.

It's not just a dry academic argument, because such types always benefit from an "Andranik boost". We've had people on here, some of whose opinions I look forward to reading, saying David Lee "couldn't do any worse". He clearly could. Suddenly elevating a youth coach into this sort of situation is like thrusting a promising primary-school teacher into being the head of a failing secondary – and yes, our Ofsted rating would be suffering right now. I'm not saying nobody is possibly better than Parkinson, I'm just saying that lots of people might not be. And while we were almost certainly doomed when jacking Lennon for Jimbo, we've still got plenty of time to choose a proper manager rather than que-sera-seraing to relegation.
Tombwfc wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:38 pm
Anyway, as an update from someone who wanted rid when this thread first started - I'd still persevere. I've seen enough this season to believe that there is potential in this team, and if we continue to get the ball to Oztumer and Ameobi (as we did in spells during the second half yesterday), good things will happen. We didn't look that far off yesterday.
On to more neutral ground: I'm genuinely interested by this, unless it's a mistype - did you want Parky out last season but not now? If so, what's caused the change? FWIW I think Parky has assembled a reasonable squad, impressively under the circumstances, but it's getting harder to disagree with those who feel he lacks the wherewithal to get the necessary points with them...
Tombwfc wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:38 pm
But, he's got to start Doidge against Millwall. When nobody is scoring, playing a 34-year-old journeyman (who I don't dislike) over an up and coming goalscorer, who we paid money for and presumably have under contract for several years to come is madness. Good, bad or indifferent he needs a run of games.
Yep - while I understand the concerns of BWFCi and others on this, I agree with you - PP needs to stand by his big gamble. Like you, I think there's enough creativity in Oz and Sammy (linking with less limited players behind them than we had last season - in terms of possession usage Williams and Lowe are well above Henry and Pratley). If we're going 4-2-3-1 - and there still seems to be too many problems with a back three to do otherwise - then I'd consider rotating Magennis and Donaldson out wide as an alternative target for the quicker, higher ball.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:44 am

Very quiet from BWFC today. No "chairman's statement" yet. Iles not talking on twitter either. Wonder if some sort of meeting to make a decision is taking place?

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:02 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:44 am
Very quiet from BWFC today. No "chairman's statement" yet. Iles not talking on twitter either. Wonder if some sort of meeting to make a decision is taking place?
Interesting tea-leaf reading. And the start of an international break is pretty much the perfect time to do the deed. But it's also possible that Ilesy is just having a day off - after all, he works Saturdays - and Ken's also giving it a rest: there's not a lot more he can say, really...

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Peter Thompson » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:08 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:44 am
Very quiet from BWFC today. No "chairman's statement" yet. Iles not talking on twitter either. Wonder if some sort of meeting to make a decision is taking place?
The only alternative I see to sacking Parkinson this week, is for the club to bring in an experienced specific attacking coach. Because I don't think there is anyone at 1st team level at the club currently who has any idea in the attacking & creative side of the game.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:29 pm

Peter Thompson wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:08 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:44 am
Very quiet from BWFC today. No "chairman's statement" yet. Iles not talking on twitter either. Wonder if some sort of meeting to make a decision is taking place?
The only alternative I see to sacking Parkinson this week, is for the club to bring in an experienced specific attacking coach. Because I don't think there is anyone at 1st team level at the club currently who has any idea in the attacking & creative side of the game.
I don't think you can coach it. Personally. These are limited players - they need a shape and methodology to find a way to break teams down. I personally think we need to go back to basics and play off a big man with tempo and energy. Our attacking football has lacked energy after the start. I don't know why. But certainly IMHO isn't down to the manager or coaching entirely in any way.

I think we need to forget trying to play clever football and focus on getting the ball into the box and around the box as many times as is possible.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by boltonboris » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:40 pm

I'd rather lose swinging tan lose with a whimper
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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:44 pm

I can’t see anything other than more broken records under parky. I like him, he’ll go down in the positive managers box for me, but he’s either given up himself or he is unable to coax performances out of players at a station above league one. Last seasons points total was a relegation one let’s not forget.

I would gamble. But it’s not my club.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:27 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:44 pm
I can’t see anything other than more broken records under parky. I like him, he’ll go down in the positive managers box for me, but he’s either given up himself or he is unable to coax performances out of players at a station above league one. Last seasons points total was a relegation one let’s not forget.

I would gamble. But it’s not my club.
No it wasn't. It would have kept us up the year we went down rock bottom, for example.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:27 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:44 pm
Last seasons points total was a relegation one let’s not forget.
No it wasn't. It would have kept us up the year we went down rock bottom, for example.
Depends which way you cut it.

Over the previous ten years, the average total of the highest-relegated team had been 45.7pts, but in four of the last seven seasons (well, five of the last eight now) it's been 44 or less, and in three of the last six (now four of the last seven) it's been 41 or less. (Points total of highest-relegated teams, going back: 51, 40, 41, 44, 54, 40, 42, 47, 46, 52.)

Perhaps this is a product of some teams seriously underperforming for the league, kinda the opposite to the way the top Premier League teams are winning more and more points each season - first time ever we've had three top-flights sides unbeaten this far in. Perhaps it's because Sunderland and Burton (in particular) spent so very long being so very bad last season. Looks like we aren't going to get two patsies in the division this season - unless one of them's us.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by irie Cee Bee » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:02 pm

Parky has given it all he can. He has tried different formations, different players ... everything. But nothing works, so it is clear to me that with the players we have, he (Parky) doesn't have the nous as a manager to compete at this level, and we will be relegated.

Tactically he is weak, so for him to be successful at this level, he needs better quality players around him to cover his weaknesses, just like how great horses make good trainers.

Therefore, how I see it, since we like Parky, Ken needs to go before him. Ken is the real problem. He needs to sell the club to the people with the money who want to buy it, and stop holding out for his massive share, so that Parky can get better quality players to work with. Better for me to judge Parky as a manager, after that.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Tombwfc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:18 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:08 pm
Tombwfc wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:38 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:58 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:00 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:12 am
Just under three years ago, swan-diving under a clearly dispirited Lennon, the consensus was that change couldn't make us any worse. And then it did.
Can't agree with you here DSB. At the end of Freedmans reign we were heading towards relegation at a pace. Lennon, however briefly, gave the side fresh impetus when he came in and we stayed up quite easily that first year.

Obviously it was only a season's reprieve and I'm glad he was gone by the time relegation was confirmed.
With respect Harry I think you've misread me (because/or I've not been clear enough). I meant the end, not the start, of Lennon's reign. "Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.

"And worse I may be yet. The worst is not
So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'" - Edgar, King Lear

At that point we were bottom of the league, 11 points from safety with nine games to play. And the relationship between the manager and pretty much everyone was toxic. Jimmy might not have done any better (although arguably not regularly getting pissed in Fanny's and starting fights with the centre forward is some form of better), but he definitely didn't do any worse.

Anyway, as an update from someone who wanted rid when this thread first started - I'd still persevere. I've seen enough this season to believe that there is potential in this team, and if we continue to get the ball to Oztumer and Ameobi (as we did in spells during the second half yesterday), good things will happen. We didn't look that far off yesterday.

But, he's got to start Doidge against Millwall. When nobody is scoring, playing a 34-year-old journeyman (who I don't dislike) over an up and coming goalscorer, who we paid money for and presumably have under contract for several years to come is madness. Good, bad or indifferent he needs a run of games.
Doidge needs a partner. Good luck fitting him and Oz and Ameobi into any system. Doidge is nowhere near playing up front on his own in this league.

Doidge has been here since September and has played for longer than 25 minutes twice. You have no idea whether he's anywhere near playing up front on his own in this league, and neither does Parky. He's what we spent our money on, he's going to be here next season and he was the last person to score for us - an actual well taken goal to boot. Let's find out what we've got.

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:20 am
Tombwfc wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:38 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:58 am
"Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.
At that point we were bottom of the league, 11 points from safety with nine games to play. And the relationship between the manager and pretty much everyone was toxic. Jimmy might not have done any better (although arguably not regularly getting pissed in Fanny's and starting fights with the centre forward is some form of better), but he definitely didn't do any worse.
I guess it depends how you define "worse", really. Compared to Jimmy's reign, in Lennon's last nine games we got more points, scored more than twice as many goals and conceded fewer, and we were never beaten by more than one goal, which happened three times in the nine games under Jimmy. We had people flying banners at Derby saying "No effort no hope", and I didn't notice an asterisk excusing the caretaker. I'm not saying Lennon shouldn't have gone, and like a few I probably said yeah give Jimmy a go, but it's demonstrably statistically false to say he didn't do any worse.

We were 24th and doomed when he arrived, and 24th and doomed when he left. It's hardly a cautionary tale not to sack your underperforming manager, especially when every other appointment post-Sammy Lee has brought with it a positive change in results.

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:20 am
Tombwfc wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:38 pm
Anyway, as an update from someone who wanted rid when this thread first started - I'd still persevere. I've seen enough this season to believe that there is potential in this team, and if we continue to get the ball to Oztumer and Ameobi (as we did in spells during the second half yesterday), good things will happen. We didn't look that far off yesterday.
On to more neutral ground: I'm genuinely interested by this, unless it's a mistype - did you want Parky out last season but not now? If so, what's caused the change? FWIW I think Parky has assembled a reasonable squad, impressively under the circumstances, but it's getting harder to disagree with those who feel he lacks the wherewithal to get the necessary points with them...

It's not a mistype, I was one of the people who recently changed the vote on this thread from 'yes' to 'no', I just never got around to justifying it with a post.

Looking back, I actually voted no when this thread was started, as it was too early in the season. By the end of it, I'd just grown bored of the whole Parky experience, believing that the club needed something to get fans excited and turning up to games again.

I still do think that, but I've also grown to like the man a lot more (a combination of final-day heroics and endless off-field firefighting) and I also appreciate that he recognised the need to liven things up by bringing in decent footballers who, in theory, would make us better to watch (Oztumer, Williams, Wildschut, Olkowski, Doidge).

As it happens, we're as bad as ever, so maybe he doesn't know what to do with the players he's got. But I think, on Saturday at least, he was on the right lines in terms of formation and most of the personnel. Enough to give me just enough hope that he might work it out before it's too late.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:37 am

Gut feeling is - Parky will stay now. Ken will want experience and I cannot imagine any experienced managers wanting this job right now - given the mess the club is in.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by elhadj » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:11 pm

Come on Ken sack him or back him , or you sell Bolton to any body have money.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:51 am

Replacement wishlist shortens as MickMac becomes Republic O'Ireland boss again.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:37 am

Interview of sorts with parky on the BN...Marc Iles has actually asked him why he hasn’t got an attacking coach in. His answer is effectively we don’t need one...I beg to differ!!

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by twilight » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:04 am

Party's right he doesn't need one. It would be a waste of money because parky wouldn't use him

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:02 am

Er, come on you Whites.... ae:)

If our attempts on their goal Saturday could only be maximised a bit, and a little luck fall our way, Parky may well be right. All we need is to move the circus forward a bit and get the ball in the net and remember that only a bad ref decision a, a wonder keeper and a late nod-off from the defence were the difference between three goals and three points at Millwall. It was hardly a massacre by them on their own midden.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:08 am

I let out a hollow laugh on the Tube this morning when I noted that Clayton Donaldson hasn't had a shot on target all season. I mean, it's not entirely his fault - although he's blazed a couple off-target when set up by Listless Luxury Oztumer - but, y'know, it's nearly f*cking December.

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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:40 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:08 am
I let out a hollow laugh on the Tube this morning when I noted that Clayton Donaldson hasn't had a shot on target all season. I mean, it's not entirely his fault - although he's blazed a couple off-target when set up by Listless Luxury Oztumer - but, y'know, it's nearly f*cking December.
He's been disappointing hasn't he? Got my first glimpse of him in the cup at Leeds and thought he looked mobile and strong. A few blazed efforts later brought us to Millwall where I thought he looked very poor.

I wouldn't want him again as the target man in our preferred 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation but there might be options for him in one of the wide roles?
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Re: Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:52 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:40 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:08 am
I let out a hollow laugh on the Tube this morning when I noted that Clayton Donaldson hasn't had a shot on target all season. I mean, it's not entirely his fault - although he's blazed a couple off-target when set up by Listless Luxury Oztumer - but, y'know, it's nearly f*cking December.
He's been disappointing hasn't he? Got my first glimpse of him in the cup at Leeds and thought he looked mobile and strong. A few blazed efforts later brought us to Millwall where I thought he looked very poor.

I wouldn't want him again as the target man in our preferred 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation but there might be options for him in one of the wide roles?
That's an option Parky has mentioned specifically for both him and Magennis - wide in a front three (be that 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 or even a hypothetical and highly adventurous 3-4-3) - but not Doidge. After the latter's debut Parky said "we need to get players around him", and that might come more naturally to a striker like Magennis/Donaldson than a winger like Buckley/Noone - or indeed Ameobi, whose best moments come outside the box.

Actually to give Buckley credit he does frequently get 'in and around' the front man - it's just that when the ball falls to him he has absolutely no idea what to do with it. Haven't seen such a Jigsaw since the days of David Reeves.

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