Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Without wishing to close down discussion, I humbly suggest we leave the reckoning until tomorrow and enjoy the day

(for the record, voting currently 53% Yes 47% No)

References to Newbolt on TW? Well, I am surprised.

[Bruce Rioja]

I' m dismissing him on the basis there is absolutely no evidence he has any of the requisite skills or knowledge to do the job. Added to that he seems dull, has no detectable charisma...

Just like Sir Alex Ferguson then?!

[DJBlu]

Sir Alex Fergusson was one game away from the sack unless they beat Nottingham Forest. The rest is history.

[Bruce Rioja]

Sir Alex Fergusson was one game away from the sack unless they beat Nottingham Forest. The rest is history.

Well yes, quite.

[Bijou Bob]

PP isn't the man to take us forward next year IMHO

OK, we survived having diced with administration and having spent nothing in the transfer market. However, we still had a well paid, experienced squad of players, several of whom have recent Premiership experience and extensive Championship playing time. Arguably, our squad is better paid and has more experience than those at Bristol, Preston, Millwall etc etc.

By common consent, the football has been awful. Players appeared to lack motivation or the ability to follow a game plan- I don't believe PP asked our back 4 to play long diagonals in the air to a lone 5'8 striker for example.

Our signings have been nothing short of abysmal. Fullbacks who can't defend, wide men who can't cross a ball, strikers played out of position or not at all. Several high profile signings barely got a kick.

Next year looks like much of the same, if we retain a tactically inept manager who spends money poorly, can't motivate players or coach them effectively.

[TANGODANCER]

A simple point to consider: You can train a racehorse to perfection; he won't always win. That's why handicaps exist. Parky's was a lack of funds and wage caps coupled with debt and court actions. He had a bag of municipal hire golf clubs whilst those around him played with TAYLOR MADEs'. Not too hard to see why he didn't win the league.

[knobpolisher]

if we retain a tactically inept manager who spends money poorly, can't motivate players or coach them effectively.

Spends money poorly , Christ on a raleigh chopper, i must have missed him pissing our mega funds away.

[Mar]

Next year looks like much of the same, if we retain a tactically inept manager who spends money poorly, can't motivate players or coach them effectively.

Think you're doing Parky and yourself a disservice there Bijou.

If anything he found a winning tactic with a woefully underfunded team and struggled to find a decent plan B that worked.

Hardly tactically inept when he's found a working tactic. Tactically inflexible perhaps but that may be down to resources more than his willingness to persist with a given play style.

As for can't motivate players i'd put forward his ability to turn things around after only 2 draws in the first 11 league games.


We're yet to see how well he does with money but given that he's achieved what I would've thought impossible 24 months ago:

Promotion under imbargo, selling off valuable assets
Survival with a team made up of free transfers whilst also selling off valuable assets



I think we'd struggle to find anyone matching that caliber.

[Bijou Bob]

if we retain a tactically inept manager who spends money poorly, can't motivate players or coach them effectively.

Spends money poorly , Christ on a raleigh chopper, i must have missed him pissing our mega funds away.

Exactly my point! We had no funds, but have to pay wages at a reasonable level. We were paying for Charsley, Clough, Walker plus a couple of full backs who barely got a kick. Money wasted on wages for players he fancied, but didn't want to play. I'd love to see a cost per game played for our loan signings.

Still, if you fancy watching more of the same next season, that's your choice.

[Hoboh]

No, he should have a chance next season but please if it goes wrong do it well before Christmas.
Who says hobo ain't fair

[BWFC_Insane]

PP isn't the man to take us forward next year IMHO

OK, we survived having diced with administration and having spent nothing in the transfer market. However, we still had a well paid, experienced squad of players, several of whom have recent Premiership experience and extensive Championship playing time. Arguably, our squad is better paid and has more experience than those at Bristol, Preston, Millwall etc etc.

By common consent, the football has been awful. Players appeared to lack motivation or the ability to follow a game plan- I don't believe PP asked our back 4 to play long diagonals in the air to a lone 5'8 striker for example.

Our signings have been nothing short of abysmal. Fullbacks who can't defend, wide men who can't cross a ball, strikers played out of position or not at all. Several high profile signings barely got a kick.

Next year looks like much of the same, if we retain a tactically inept manager who spends money poorly, can't motivate players or coach them effectively.

How is that arguable? It isn't. We were under an embargo restricting us to £4,500 a week wages in a league where teams are routinely paying over £20K a week. And we couldn't sign anyone. Then sold our top scorer.
As Iles says our roughly 12M wage bill might be comparable with Burton/Barnsley. But a decent chunk of that bill is paying Amos (who isn't here) and Derik who is utterly shite. If you take those two out, signed by the last regime when Eddie was still spunking money left right and centre our wage bill is likely bottom of the pile.

And we've not spent a penny on a player since 2015.

Parky has done the job asked of him two years in a row. He's the first manager to take us forward as a club in his first two full seasons since Sam Allardyce - that is a fact.

For once I'd agree with Hoboh. Parky deserves a chance after working miracles. We can't afford to keep him for ever if it doesn't work out. But certainly he deserves to start the season and see what happens.

The priority has to be bringing in investment and supporting him. Has to be. Without that, you can pick any manager in the world and we'll be struggling again.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

It is such a difficult decision now. I wouldn't blame Ken or whoever else might come in either way.

One on the one hand Parky has worked miracles and totally deserves to continue. And if there isn't substantial investment, it seems there are very few who could perform miracles on what will be a 23rd-24th place budget to keep us up again.

On the other if we secure investment and really want to progress and try and challenge at the top end of this league, as any substantial investor would surely demand, has Parky shown any signs that he is the man to do a Neil Warnock, or a David Wagner? Given our budget, even with investment given FFP, would only be enough just to be competitive? Surely the answer is "no"?

[Bijou Bob]

I suspect PP will get the chance he deserves, but it looks like that might depend on whether potential new Saudi investors want to rub shoulders with Gianfranco Zola or the like.

On another note Insano, I'm hearing that we might be playing some pre season games in Portugal. That'd be a lovely trip if you've still got the motorbike

[BWFC_Insane]

It is such a difficult decision now. I wouldn't blame Ken or whoever else might come in either way.

One on the one hand Parky has worked miracles and totally deserves to continue. And if there isn't substantial investment, it seems there are very few who could perform miracles on what will be a 23rd-24th place budget to keep us up again.

On the other if we secure investment and really want to progress and try and challenge at the top end of this league, as any substantial investor would surely demand, has Parky shown any signs that he is the man to do a Neil Warnock, or a David Wagner? Given our budget, even with investment given FFP, would only be enough just to be competitive? Surely the answer is "no"?

How would we know because he's never been given the chance? I'm not sure he can't repeat what Warnock has done given the resources. But until he has the chance we don't know? Bit like with Allardyce when he initially arrived and built a battling side one might question could he have kicked us on (many did question it) but he did.

For me Parky deserves that chance. At least initially.

[boltonboris]

It is such a difficult decision now. I wouldn't blame Ken or whoever else might come in either way.

One on the one hand Parky has worked miracles and totally deserves to continue. And if there isn't substantial investment, it seems there are very few who could perform miracles on what will be a 23rd-24th place budget to keep us up again.

On the other if we secure investment and really want to progress and try and challenge at the top end of this league, as any substantial investor would surely demand, has Parky shown any signs that he is the man to do a Neil Warnock, or a David Wagner? Given our budget, even with investment given FFP, would only be enough just to be competitive? Surely the answer is "no"?

How would we know because he's never been given the chance? I'm not sure he can't repeat what Warnock has done given the resources. But until he has the chance we don't know? Bit like with Allardyce when he initially arrived and built a battling side one might question could he have kicked us on (many did question it) but he did.

For me Parky deserves that chance. At least initially.

Defo.. Like any profession, it would be harsh if your boss gave you targets, you achieved them, but flirted you anyway because you should've 'done it nicer'

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'm going to post some statistics, but first I have to carefully say that I think Phil Parkinson has done a surprisingly wonderful job, achieving his aim in both seasons, and I do not necessarily think he should be sacked. Indeed, although I was furious last weekend, I never actually changed my vote on this poll and I still haven't. For the record, I think his future is tied up in the bigger issue of who owns/runs the club.

That done, in the hope of not being shouted at, here's an interesting fact, well I think so anyway. There have now been 30 seasons since the second tier went to 24 teams (1988/89 was the first). In those three decades, stretching back to before the Premier League, Italia 90 and the backpass law, no team has survived on as few as 43 points.

True, they could have; the third-bottom team has got 42 or fewer points on seven occasions in the previous 29 (so eight out of 30 now). But it's worth noting that no actual (rather than theoretical) team has had as mathematically poor a season as us and survived in this division since 1985, Heysel time, when Middlesbrough did on 40 - from 42 games, which is still a higher PPG. They're the only second-tier survivors since the introduction in 1981 of 3pts for a win to get a lower points total than us.

Make of that what you will. What I will say is that, whoever's in charge, we can't afford to expect such historic good fortune again.

Oh and one other thing, in related news: Simon Grayson has left Bradford. Not saying he's a better manager, but the news is germane to the thread.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm going to post some statistics, but first I have to carefully say that I think Phil Parkinson has done a surprisingly wonderful job, achieving his aim in both seasons, and I do not necessarily think he should be sacked. Indeed, although I was furious last weekend, I never actually changed my vote on this poll and I still haven't. For the record, I think his future is tied up in the bigger issue of who owns/runs the club.

That done, in the hope of not being shouted at, here's an interesting fact, well I think so anyway. There have now been 30 seasons since the second tier went to 24 teams (1988/89 was the first). In those three decades, stretching back to before the Premier League, Italia 90 and the backpass law, no team has survived on as few as 43 points.

True, they could have; the third-bottom team has got 42 or fewer points on seven occasions in the previous 29 (so eight out of 30 now). But it's worth noting that no actual (rather than theoretical) team has had as mathematically poor a season as us and survived in this division since 1985, Heysel time, when Middlesbrough did on 40 - from 42 games, which is still a higher PPG. They're the only second-tier survivors since the introduction in 1981 of 3pts for a win to get a lower points total than us.

Make of that what you will. What I will say is that, whoever's in charge, we can't afford to expect such historic good fortune again.

Oh and one other thing, in related news: Simon Grayson has left Bradford. Not saying he's a better manager, but the news is germane to the thread.

If we get Grayson over Parky that would be a mahooosive step backwards. If Parky is to go, there needs to be really really good reason for it. Not someone who just failed at Sunderland and Bradford.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If we get Grayson over Parky that would be a mahooosive step backwards. If Parky is to go, there needs to be really really good reason for it. Not someone who just failed at Sunderland and Bradford.

I understand your point and can see its merits. I'm very far from sure that Grayson would be the good move, and I'd hope for more of an upgrade. But he did help establish Preston in this division before that ill-advised flirt with Sunderland's sinking ship, and if it goes wrong he has had more tier-3 promotions than most.

Put it this way, if Parky opted to walk (and who could blame him etc) then we could do a lot worse. But he's more likely to go to a (doubtlessly Northern) tier-3 side. Maybe Parky will soon be asking him for a price-check on Josh Morris.

[BWFC_Insane]

If we get Grayson over Parky that would be a mahooosive step backwards. If Parky is to go, there needs to be really really good reason for it. Not someone who just failed at Sunderland and Bradford.

I understand your point and can see its merits. I'm very far from sure that Grayson would be the good move, and I'd hope for more of an upgrade. But he did help establish Preston in this division before that ill-advised flirt with Sunderland's sinking ship, and if it goes wrong he has had more tier-3 promotions than most.

Put it this way, if Parky opted to walk (and who could blame him etc) then we could do a lot worse. But he's more likely to go to a (doubtlessly Northern) tier-3 side. Maybe Parky will soon be asking him for a price-check on Josh Morris.

But why can't Parky establish us if given the sort of stability and budget Grayson enjoyed at Preston? The chance to sign a McGeady or two?

That is what I'm not getting. If suddenly there is hundreds of millions to spend and we can afford to build a team full of exciting free flowing footballers then sure, Parky hasn't the experience of that.

But surely there is no evidence he can't do what Grayson did at Preston with a similar set of conditions and resources?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Aye, possibly. I think there are still huge question marks over Parkinson's suitability to establish a second-tier team, especially one that's good to watch. I'm not saying Grayson is any better – just available in case, that's all.

As you say, if we were bankrolled (or did a Wolves/Gestifute thing) then Parky's probably not the man. But what are the odds of that? That said, I'm still struggling to work out what exactly Ken wants - presumably, ideal-world, someone to sign the cheques while he runs the club. And I'm still struggling to work out why someone would give him that, or even put in (say) £30m without ownership. I mean, why?