Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

[BWFC_Insane]

To put it into my experiences: if I'd only just managed to deliver a project within timeframe and budget after making a number of decisions that caused problems throughout its lifecycle, I'd expect that to be brought up in my annual review and reflect my bonus or even position going forwards.

But what if it were your boss who made the decisions that caused enormous problems for your project and you still managed to deliver it. Should that reflect badly on you? The opposite I think.

It still gets reflected on me, whether positively or negatively - it's something I'm actually going through at the moment; senior decisions affecting a project despite previous warnings of what would happen. C'est la vie.

If you're talking about Madine, the player and staff accounts I've read say that it was completely mutual and that Gaz made his mind up about wanting to move to Cardiff a good few days before the deadline at least. It wasn't as if KA plucked him from under Parky's nose, it was mutual between Madine wanting to go for promotion and a pay rise (fair enough on both) and his sale helping out accounts (again fair enough). The management team - whether Parky or KA - then brought in Clough as a replacement, and as much as I like him he wasn't what we needed.

Parky will have been involved in this process somewhere so I don't buy into this "KA is making all of Parky's decision". I can't see someone like Parky hanging around if that was true. And it doesn't excuse the limp performances that we saw March onwards, Barnsley 2nd half and Forest game aside. We were performing far better in the window between Madine's sale and the post break barren run.

A week before the deadline Parky was sure Madine was staying till the summer. Don't be blinded by Ken spinning a tale to suit him. Sure Madine wasn't turning down the money on offer, but he wanted a new contract HERE. Ken stalled on it and then sold him. We all know why.

As for Clough, he came in a few minutes before the deadline when we were desperate. He wasn't signed as a replacement, Parky had been given a day to find a replacement for Madine and all bids were rebuffed. It is a real joke to say that any of that was down to Parky. Of course he'd not have sold Madine had he free reign. Certainly not without a replacement lined up. But Ken wanted the money, simple as that.

[BWFC_Insane]

A week before the deadline Parky was sure Madine was staying till the summer. Don't be blinded by Ken spinning a tale to suit him. Sure Madine wasn't turning down the money on offer, but he wanted a new contract HERE. Ken stalled on it and then sold him. We all know why.

As for Clough, he came in a few minutes before the deadline when we were desperate. He wasn't signed as a replacement, Parky had been given a day to find a replacement for Madine and all bids were rebuffed. It is a real joke to say that any of that was down to Parky. Of course he'd not have sold Madine had he free reign. Certainly not without a replacement lined up. But Ken wanted the money, simple as that.

I mean that goes against what Gaz said too, he was aware of Cardiff's interest quite some time before the deadline Cardiff made two rejected bids towards the start of Jan, and ramped up interest as the window came to a close. Even LOVS reported it as a done deal on 30th January. It was hardly a bolt from the blue.

I don't know where this sudden KA ripped Gaz away from Parky thing has come from, the above was fairly widely reported at the time and it dragged out until deadline day. As is often said the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - we needed the money, a promotion run interested Gaz.

Parky and the team adapted well post sale, we put in some good performances and got some good results before we utterly folded from March onwards. That is definitely on Parky and the coaching staff, and is utterly unrelated to Madine's sale as they'd already shown that we could adapt to that. That is what I'm disputing: that Parky isn't in some way responsible for our end of season collapse from a safe and comfortable position leading into the easiest run in of the relegation teams. I honestly find it baffling that people are so quick to forget following a last gasp, dramatic 3-2 win.

Discussing different viewpoints is great for perspective, but the 180 towards Parky being an absolute saint on here has been so sudden that I'm actually feeling whiplash. Don't get me wrong he's a nice bloke, and a decent manager who achieved his targets for sure; but the way he's suddenly being lauded you'd think he'd given us a season ending charge up the table rather than saving us from a mess of his own creation.

Why isn't it on the players too? Parky didn't change from Villa onwards...the same sort of team was picked. But they didn't perform. In the interviews after the match players said they "struggled with the pressure". Who knows why. Parky isn't blameless. But we weren't meant to stay up. However we did it, it was against all the odds in terms of the quality we had available and the fact we've not invested in this team in 3 years. The only championship side not to spend anything in the season. And to not have spent anything in 3 years....in a big spending league?

Compound that with the dreadful start where bookies were paying out.

It is miraculous we stayed up. However we did it, we did actually do it. The manager should be getting huge praise for doing so against every single obstacle that could be placed in front of him.

Most like Neil Lennon did (with a far stronger hand) would have given up. Parky is made of strong stuff and his ability to eventually drag big performances out of a team as per Sunday reminds me of Sam. We have bad runs. As we did under Sam. But they are big enough characters and strong enough mentally to turn it round when it matters.

That is big for me. Big.

[BWFC_Insane]

Why isn't it on the players too? Parky didn't change from Villa onwards...the same sort of team was picked. But they didn't perform. In the interviews after the match players said they "struggled with the pressure". Who knows why. Parky isn't blameless. But we weren't meant to stay up. However we did it, it was against all the odds in terms of the quality we had available and the fact we've not invested in this team in 3 years. The only championship side not to spend anything in the season. And to not have spent anything in 3 years....in a big spending league?

Compound that with the dreadful start where bookies were paying out.

It is miraculous we stayed up. However we did it, we did actually do it. The manager should be getting huge praise for doing so against every single obstacle that could be placed in front of him.

Most like Neil Lennon did (with a far stronger hand) would have given up. Parky is made of strong stuff and his ability to eventually drag big performances out of a team as per Sunday reminds me of Sam. We have bad runs. As we did under Sam. But they are big enough characters and strong enough mentally to turn it round when it matters.

That is big for me. Big.

It is - this is reflected by who is given new contracts, or potentially sold over summer. I'm not suggesting we hound him of the club and fire him without due consideration. I'm suggesting that we review Parky's situation in a similar manner given that he is on a 12 month rolling: what went well; what didn't; why we struggled; potential causes. Like you get in pretty much every other job when stuff goes well or not so well.

And I've no problem with that. But ultimately in a results driven business, the result has been exceptional.

[Mar]

I mean that goes against what Gaz said too, he was aware of Cardiff's interest quite some time before the deadline Cardiff made two rejected bids towards the start of Jan, and ramped up interest as the window came to a close. Even LOVS reported it as a done deal on 30th January. It was hardly a bolt from the blue.

I don't know where this sudden KA ripped Gaz away from Parky thing has come from, the above was fairly widely reported at the time and it dragged out until deadline day. As is often said the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - we needed the money, a promotion run interested Gaz.

You discuss Parkinson's situation regarding Gary Madine in a manner that suggests Parky had a big deal of influence in the matter. I suspect it is far from that and that KA was waiting on the best deal (as is the remit of the chairman). This made it substantially more difficult to get a last minute deal done for a replacement as Parkinson is waiting on KA's actions. I'm sure that Parkinson would've preferred to have a replacement in prior to getting rid of Madine, that is on KA. The problem that Parkinson did face is that the deals were done far too late in the day and they were not convincing enough to make his desired replacements come to the club, again this may be down to contracts to which again KA is responsible.

I'm sure mistakes were made from both the chairman and manager in the transfer window but upon reflection and given how well the club has done both with the sale and in achieving survival targets then we should be happy. Hopefully now the funds of the Madine sale can start getting invested in adequate replacements.

[BWFC_Insane]

I mean that goes against what Gaz said too, he was aware of Cardiff's interest quite some time before the deadline Cardiff made two rejected bids towards the start of Jan, and ramped up interest as the window came to a close. Even LOVS reported it as a done deal on 30th January. It was hardly a bolt from the blue.

I don't know where this sudden KA ripped Gaz away from Parky thing has come from, the above was fairly widely reported at the time and it dragged out until deadline day. As is often said the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - we needed the money, a promotion run interested Gaz.

You discuss Parkinson's situation regarding Gary Madine in a manner that suggests Parky had a big deal of influence in the matter. I suspect it is far from that and that KA was waiting on the best deal (as is the remit of the chairman). This made it substantially more difficult to get a last minute deal done for a replacement as Parkinson is waiting on KA's actions. I'm sure that Parkinson would've preferred to have a replacement in prior to getting rid of Madine, that is on KA. The problem that Parkinson did face is that the deals were done far too late in the day and they were not convincing enough to make his desired replacements come to the club, again this may be down to contracts to which again KA is responsible.

I'm sure mistakes were made from both the chairman and manager in the transfer window but upon reflection and given how well the club has done both with the sale and in achieving survival targets then we should be happy. Hopefully now the funds of the Madine sale can start getting invested in adequate replacements.

Unlikely given they were needed to cover debts. And we have to start repaying the BM loan in September. It is why Ken is currently negotiating for investment. The club isn't covering its costs still. And that is with one of the smallest wage bills in the division.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Don't stop offering your opinion throwaway!!

I think there is a valid discussion to be had about Parky and it is close to 50/50. The fact that Ken hasn't yet offered his full backing suggests it is taking place in much more important places than here.

Assuming it is a similar set up at the top of the club next season, I would just about err on the side of keeping Parky, on the basis that he deserves it based on what he has achieved at the club. Also there seems to be a nice bond there, and he is a good character who could be a great long term manager for the club, if, IF, he can get it right on the pitch. I think there are huge question marks around whether he has the ability to succeed at this level however. And with McCarthy and possibly Holloway available, there are proven Championship managers out there who have proved they can keep teams competitive at this level on small budgets...

[BWFC_Insane]

Have a good summer guys, hopefully we do build a platform to climb the table whether we back or mutually part ways with Parky; as I said pre-game, win or not, I am leaning towards the latter and I am nothing if not consistent. Lately it feels like no one is actually reading what I am saying leading to me repeating what I said earlier and having circular discussions, and it's becoming tiring contributing my opinion to be honest.

Onwards and upwards this August.

I'm reading it, I get it.

But for me it's all about expectations.

Our previous championship season with a £26M wage bill, players like Holding, Ream, Madine etc resulted in 30 points and relegation as the bottom side.

This season with a ~£12M wage bill we've amassed 43 points, 13 more, and finished 4th bottom.

Looking at that, can you ask for anymore?

[BWFC_Insane]

Don't stop offering your opinion throwaway!!

I think there is a valid discussion to be had about Parky and it is close to 50/50. The fact that Ken hasn't yet offered his full backing suggests it is taking place in much more important places than here.

Assuming it is a similar set up at the top of the club next season, I would just about err on the side of keeping Parky, on the basis that he deserves it based on what he has achieved at the club. Also there seems to be a nice bond there, and he is a good character who could be a great long term manager for the club, if, IF, he can get it right on the pitch. I think there are huge question marks around whether he has the ability to succeed at this level however. And with McCarthy and possibly Holloway available, there are proven Championship managers out there who have proved they can keep teams competitive at this level on small budgets...

FFS. Just stop. Please.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Don't stop offering your opinion throwaway!!

I think there is a valid discussion to be had about Parky and it is close to 50/50. The fact that Ken hasn't yet offered his full backing suggests it is taking place in much more important places than here.

Indeed - stick around, TAB. Or take a breath and come back. TW is usually better than binary.

As Bristol says, it's a live discussion. But the delay may not be about Parky, but something bigger. If Ken is to be believed, and particularly if Nixon's rumour is to be believed, we may be looking not at a new manager but a new Eddie Davies. Possibly that brings a new chairman/CEO, a new manager, new players. And because the players' contracts are usually far more lurcative than the manager's, he's actually the *least* important piece in the jigsaw, financially at least.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Don't stop offering your opinion throwaway!!

I think there is a valid discussion to be had about Parky and it is close to 50/50. The fact that Ken hasn't yet offered his full backing suggests it is taking place in much more important places than here.

Assuming it is a similar set up at the top of the club next season, I would just about err on the side of keeping Parky, on the basis that he deserves it based on what he has achieved at the club. Also there seems to be a nice bond there, and he is a good character who could be a great long term manager for the club, if, IF, he can get it right on the pitch. I think there are huge question marks around whether he has the ability to succeed at this level however. And with McCarthy and possibly Holloway available, there are proven Championship managers out there who have proved they can keep teams competitive at this level on small budgets...

FFS. Just stop. Please.

Holloway's Barmy Army, Holloway's Barmy Army (music smilie)

You've got three months to practice

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Why isn't it on the players too? Parky didn't change from Villa onwards...the same sort of team was picked. But they didn't perform. In the interviews after the match players said they "struggled with the pressure". Who knows why. Parky isn't blameless. But we weren't meant to stay up. However we did it, it was against all the odds in terms of the quality we had available and the fact we've not invested in this team in 3 years. The only championship side not to spend anything in the season. And to not have spent anything in 3 years....in a big spending league?

Compound that with the dreadful start where bookies were paying out.

It is miraculous we stayed up. However we did it, we did actually do it. The manager should be getting huge praise for doing so against every single obstacle that could be placed in front of him.

Most like Neil Lennon did (with a far stronger hand) would have given up. Parky is made of strong stuff and his ability to eventually drag big performances out of a team as per Sunday reminds me of Sam. We have bad runs. As we did under Sam. But they are big enough characters and strong enough mentally to turn it round when it matters.

That is big for me. Big.

It is - this is reflected by who is given new contracts, or potentially sold over summer. I'm not suggesting we hound him of the club and fire him without due consideration. I'm suggesting that we review Parky's situation in a similar manner given that he is on a 12 month rolling: what went well; what didn't; why we struggled; potential causes. Like you get in pretty much every other job when stuff goes well or not so well.

And I've no problem with that. But ultimately in a results driven business, the result has been exceptional.

Exceptional!?
Try, just short of catastrophic. By two minutes and a lot of good luck.

[BWFC_Insane]

Why isn't it on the players too? Parky didn't change from Villa onwards...the same sort of team was picked. But they didn't perform. In the interviews after the match players said they "struggled with the pressure". Who knows why. Parky isn't blameless. But we weren't meant to stay up. However we did it, it was against all the odds in terms of the quality we had available and the fact we've not invested in this team in 3 years. The only championship side not to spend anything in the season. And to not have spent anything in 3 years....in a big spending league?

Compound that with the dreadful start where bookies were paying out.

It is miraculous we stayed up. However we did it, we did actually do it. The manager should be getting huge praise for doing so against every single obstacle that could be placed in front of him.

Most like Neil Lennon did (with a far stronger hand) would have given up. Parky is made of strong stuff and his ability to eventually drag big performances out of a team as per Sunday reminds me of Sam. We have bad runs. As we did under Sam. But they are big enough characters and strong enough mentally to turn it round when it matters.

That is big for me. Big.

It is - this is reflected by who is given new contracts, or potentially sold over summer. I'm not suggesting we hound him of the club and fire him without due consideration. I'm suggesting that we review Parky's situation in a similar manner given that he is on a 12 month rolling: what went well; what didn't; why we struggled; potential causes. Like you get in pretty much every other job when stuff goes well or not so well.

And I've no problem with that. But ultimately in a results driven business, the result has been exceptional.

Exceptional!?
Try, just short of catastrophic. By two minutes and a lot of good luck.

No, exceptional. Staying up was always a huge long shot in the circumstances. We did it.

[truewhite15]

Why isn't it on the players too? Parky didn't change from Villa onwards...the same sort of team was picked. But they didn't perform. In the interviews after the match players said they "struggled with the pressure". Who knows why. Parky isn't blameless. But we weren't meant to stay up. However we did it, it was against all the odds in terms of the quality we had available and the fact we've not invested in this team in 3 years. The only championship side not to spend anything in the season. And to not have spent anything in 3 years....in a big spending league?

Compound that with the dreadful start where bookies were paying out.

It is miraculous we stayed up. However we did it, we did actually do it. The manager should be getting huge praise for doing so against every single obstacle that could be placed in front of him.

Most like Neil Lennon did (with a far stronger hand) would have given up. Parky is made of strong stuff and his ability to eventually drag big performances out of a team as per Sunday reminds me of Sam. We have bad runs. As we did under Sam. But they are big enough characters and strong enough mentally to turn it round when it matters.

That is big for me. Big.

It is - this is reflected by who is given new contracts, or potentially sold over summer. I'm not suggesting we hound him of the club and fire him without due consideration. I'm suggesting that we review Parky's situation in a similar manner given that he is on a 12 month rolling: what went well; what didn't; why we struggled; potential causes. Like you get in pretty much every other job when stuff goes well or not so well.

And I've no problem with that. But ultimately in a results driven business, the result has been exceptional.

Exceptional!?
Try, just short of catastrophic. By two minutes and a lot of good luck.

No, exceptional. Staying up was always a huge long shot in the circumstances. We did it.

Taken in the context of the season as a whole, he's done well. The aim was staying up, he achieved it - yes, against the odds, with no money. Job done.

HOWEVER, the events of the last month and a half, since the international break, can't be ignored. Yes, we sold Madine, but we had stabilised and were doing alright. During the run in, we changed personnel weekly, we changed formation every other game. Players were in that were blatantly out of form, players were out for reasons unclear. Parkinson did not know his best team, this much is clear. In games against Birmingham, Barnsley and Burton, points were thrown away by sending out lineups that worried too much about what the opposition could do to us, rather than what we could do to them.

It turned out alright in the end - you could take the view that Parkinson ended up vindicated. But it can't be ignored that we very nearly threw it all away - and that the manager was a big part of that.

[Bruce Rioja]

Yep. We need cash, but we also need nous.

£1m. Big Matt Smith from QPR. Job's a ball o' cheese. Sorted.

[BWFC_Insane]

Taken in the context of the season as a whole, he's done well. The aim was staying up, he achieved it - yes, against the odds, with no money. Job done.

HOWEVER, the events of the last month and a half, since the international break, can't be ignored. Yes, we sold Madine, but we had stabilised and were doing alright. During the run in, we changed personnel weekly, we changed formation every other game. Players were in that were blatantly out of form, players were out for reasons unclear. Parkinson did not know his best team, this much is clear. In games against Birmingham, Barnsley and Burton, points were thrown away by sending out lineups that worried too much about what the opposition could do to us, rather than what we could do to them.

It turned out alright in the end - you could take the view that Parkinson ended up vindicated. But it can't be ignored that we very nearly threw it all away - and that the manager was a big part of that.

I'd agree with that. However, as a few players have suggested the pressure got to them, so perhaps the dip in performances was down to that and the chopping and changing was Parky trying to find a way to fix it, find fresh minds etc....

We all know mistakes were made. But it happens, and ultimately over the season the job that at the beginning seemed almost impossible was achieved.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Taken in the context of the season as a whole, he's done well. The aim was staying up, he achieved it - yes, against the odds, with no money. Job done.

HOWEVER, the events of the last month and a half, since the international break, can't be ignored. Yes, we sold Madine, but we had stabilised and were doing alright. During the run in, we changed personnel weekly, we changed formation every other game. Players were in that were blatantly out of form, players were out for reasons unclear. Parkinson did not know his best team, this much is clear. In games against Birmingham, Barnsley and Burton, points were thrown away by sending out lineups that worried too much about what the opposition could do to us, rather than what we could do to them.

It turned out alright in the end - you could take the view that Parkinson ended up vindicated. But it can't be ignored that we very nearly threw it all away - and that the manager was a big part of that.

I'd agree with that. However, as a few players have suggested the pressure got to them, so perhaps the dip in performances was down to that and the chopping and changing was Parky trying to find a way to fix it, find fresh minds etc....

We all know mistakes were made. But it happens, and ultimately over the season the job that at the beginning seemed almost impossible was achieved.

Aye, fair points. As I've said, I'd rather a manager change a losing team than stick rigidly to something that isn't working.

What worries me most – and this is not to say that I'd like Parky out - is the bolded bit in truewhite's post. I get that against most teams in this league we may have to be on the back foot. But I would like us to be able to have more adventure against teams we should be looking to beat (a divisional subset which you'd want to grow over time). In extremis at Barnsley, he hit upon something that worked, with genuine attacking threat from open play; two weeks later at Burton he opted for a fatuously cautious approach. Not only that, it failed horribly and this time he couldn't turn it round.

That's the worry for me, and has been since 2pm on the day of the Burton game. All I can do now is hope he's learned from that experience more clearly than he learned from Barnsley, or perhaps he will combine both into the idea that sometimes attack is the best form of defence - especially when your defence has kept one clean sheet in 10 games, as it had prior to Burton.

[Peter Thompson]

Parkinson will always be a defensive minded manager, who likes a big 6ft 5" target man & will continue to play long ball football - and I'm not convinced that he has the managerial experience & ability to make us a comfortable mid table side or even a side challenging for the play offs.

If we get the promised investment or the Saudis take us over and we can bring in better quality players to enable us to be a little more pleasing on the eye, play through midfield & be less long ball, then IMO he should be replaced. However, if we still have no money and are happy finishing 4th bottom again then Parkinson may be the man.

[BWFC_Insane]

Taken in the context of the season as a whole, he's done well. The aim was staying up, he achieved it - yes, against the odds, with no money. Job done.

HOWEVER, the events of the last month and a half, since the international break, can't be ignored. Yes, we sold Madine, but we had stabilised and were doing alright. During the run in, we changed personnel weekly, we changed formation every other game. Players were in that were blatantly out of form, players were out for reasons unclear. Parkinson did not know his best team, this much is clear. In games against Birmingham, Barnsley and Burton, points were thrown away by sending out lineups that worried too much about what the opposition could do to us, rather than what we could do to them.

It turned out alright in the end - you could take the view that Parkinson ended up vindicated. But it can't be ignored that we very nearly threw it all away - and that the manager was a big part of that.

I'd agree with that. However, as a few players have suggested the pressure got to them, so perhaps the dip in performances was down to that and the chopping and changing was Parky trying to find a way to fix it, find fresh minds etc....

We all know mistakes were made. But it happens, and ultimately over the season the job that at the beginning seemed almost impossible was achieved.

Aye, fair points. As I've said, I'd rather a manager change a losing team than stick rigidly to something that isn't working.

What worries me most – and this is not to say that I'd like Parky out - is the bolded bit in truewhite's post. I get that against most teams in this league we may have to be on the back foot. But I would like us to be able to have more adventure against teams we should be looking to beat (a divisional subset which you'd want to grow over time). In extremis at Barnsley, he hit upon something that worked, with genuine attacking threat from open play; two weeks later at Burton he opted for a fatuously cautious approach. Not only that, it failed horribly and this time he couldn't turn it round.

That's the worry for me, and has been since 2pm on the day of the Burton game. All I can do now is hope he's learned from that experience more clearly than he learned from Barnsley, or perhaps he will combine both into the idea that sometimes attack is the best form of defence - especially when your defence has kept one clean sheet in 10 games, as it had prior to Burton.

Aye. I mean I'm sure he knows. But he was picking a team he thought could do a job. My bigger issue than going defensive (I watched Huddersfield play with all 10 outfield players on top of the 18 yard box for virtually a whole game at Chelsea and get massive plaudits) was picking wankers like Derik in a massive game. Allardyce often went defensive in a relegation battle at times, (away at Southampton for example), but picked the right characters. Parky picking Dervite and Derik was odd given neither have the bottle, stomach or energy for a scrap.

However, it is clear that he looked at that and picked a bang on team for Forest. So I'll say after two hugely successful seasons lets support him financially to provide a 3rd that is less knife edge hopefully.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I watched Huddersfield play with all 10 outfield players on top of the 18 yard box for virtually a whole game at Chelsea and get massive plaudits

That's kind of my point, though. If we ground out a point that way wt Wolves I'd applaud. I wouldn't expect Huddersfield to go gung-ho at Chelsea. If they did that at home to Swansea, or away at Stoke, Wagner would be questioned, and rightly so.

(Big Sam did a lot of things that wouldn't suit other managers. Ask Megson.)

[BWFC_Insane]

I watched Huddersfield play with all 10 outfield players on top of the 18 yard box for virtually a whole game at Chelsea and get massive plaudits

That's kind of my point, though. If we ground out a point that way wt Wolves I'd applaud. I wouldn't expect Huddersfield to go gung-ho at Chelsea. If they did that at home to Swansea, or away at Stoke, Wagner would be questioned, and rightly so.

(Big Sam did a lot of things that wouldn't suit other managers. Ask Megson.)

Huddersfield have done similar a lot this season. Even at home. They get away with it, because of the momentum gained from promotion last season, and their clear underdog status.

What I'm saying is we are more underdog like in this league given our situation than Huddersfield in the premiership where the huge TV deal provides some level of parity until you hit the top 6.

In this league we're in our situation left us as rank, rank outsiders. To finish above Sunderland in itself is a miracle.