3-5-2 at home?

[BWFC_Insane]

O’Neil and Williams aren’t defensive midfield players. Most teams fill their midfields with this type. Only Bolton fans who seem to class anyone who isn’t Okocha as a ‘CDM’.

The fact is that had Williams played as he did at Preston we’d been better. The issue at home might not just be formation but also mentality. Perhaps we have a squad who find it easier scrapping against the odds and chasing lost causes than being on the front foot. Sometimes you end up like that, not through design but just by chance.

[TANGODANCER]

O’Neil and Williams aren’t defensive midfield players. Most teams fill their midfields with this type. Only Bolton fans who seem to class anyone who isn’t Okocha as a ‘CDM’.

The fact is that had Williams played as he did at Preston we’d been better. The issue at home might not just be formation but also mentality. Perhaps we have a squad who find it easier scrapping against the odds and chasing lost causes than being on the front foot. Sometimes you end up like that, not through design but just by chance.

I'd hardly call the club and players chasing lost causes after what they had to face pre game.. It was a totally stressful week and Sammi getting injured just about finished it off. We lost a game; we'll lose some more. Hardly world's end. Main thing is not to slip down the table and lose our advantage. I'm pretty sure the manager and players are aware of that.

[Peter Thompson]

So another serious question, should the manager & coaching staff not be coaching the players during the week to start on the front foot more & get forward more and support the striker, get more crosses in, play at a quicker tempo, stop playing as many sideways passes

I've asked a similar question before but got a few strange answers about the manager not being able to make the players get forward more and the players basically doing what they like - in which case why do we need coaches, if the players can do whatever they like. Can't the manager say to the players that he wants them to get further forward, play at a higher tempo, don't play as deep & if they don't listen then he should bring in players in the squad that - surely their is more to football management than simply picking a team and putting an arm around their shoulder - what about coaching a system, tactics, quicker tempo, moving the ball quicker, style of play, is this not down to the manager & coaching staff ?

[TANGODANCER]

So another serious question, should the manager & coaching staff not be coaching the players during the week to start on the front foot more & get forward more and support the striker, get more crosses in, play at a quicker tempo, stop playing as many sideways passes

I doubt anybody is going to disagree with any of that theoretically, P.T, certainly not me. Main problem is that the Championship is only one league down from the cream of English football, the Premiership. As has often been said, including many times on here, that's where money makes the real difference. Doesn't matter what system we play or what instructions the manager gives if the opposition have better (paid) players. Just like in any shop, you get what you pay for. Shop at Aldi and you can't compete with Harrods and Selfridges. We have no brass. That's still our number one problem and the main reason we're bargain basement. If we had the funds, no doubt we could some buy a team that competes at the top.

[Jugs]

O’Neil and Williams aren’t defensive midfield players. Most teams fill their midfields with this type. Only Bolton fans who seem to class anyone who isn’t Okocha as a ‘CDM’.

The fact is that had Williams played as he did at Preston we’d been better. The issue at home might not just be formation but also mentality. Perhaps we have a squad who find it easier scrapping against the odds and chasing lost causes than being on the front foot. Sometimes you end up like that, not through design but just by chance.

We don't start with a CM who looks capable of creating anything at home atm. We went with Vela, Lowe and Murphy v Sheffield and it was shite. We went with Lowe, O'Neil and Williams v QPR and it was equally shite. Lots of sideways stuff, no creativity, no penetration and no support for Doige.

I'm telling you mate, it's gonna be one long season of struggle at home unless this is sorted because we're also shipping goals. Defend the 3 CM's all you want, but unless we start creating chances, we will find it tough - to watch as much as anything lol.

We showed against Forest that, if the shackles are off, we can create chances at home. But PP won't bring himself to do it.

[BWFC_Insane]

O’Neil and Williams aren’t defensive midfield players. Most teams fill their midfields with this type. Only Bolton fans who seem to class anyone who isn’t Okocha as a ‘CDM’.

The fact is that had Williams played as he did at Preston we’d been better. The issue at home might not just be formation but also mentality. Perhaps we have a squad who find it easier scrapping against the odds and chasing lost causes than being on the front foot. Sometimes you end up like that, not through design but just by chance.

We don't start with a CM who looks capable of creating anything at home atm. We went with Vela, Lowe and Murphy v Sheffield and it was shite. We went with Lowe, O'Neil and Williams v QPR and it was equally shite. Lots of sideways stuff, no creativity, no penetration and no support for Doige.

I'm telling you mate, it's gonna be one long season of struggle at home unless this is sorted because we're also shipping goals. Defend the 3 CM's all you want, but unless we start creating chances, we will find it tough - to watch as much as anything lol.

We showed against Forest that, if the shackles are off, we can create chances at home. But PP won't bring himself to do it.

But the idea is that our wide players create chances. In the main. As is the case for most of the sides in this league.

The Forest game (where let’s face it 9/10 times we lose) we simply bombed balls into the box and Wilbraham then at him and ALF. Certainly wasn’t any sort of midfield guile at play. But if you think that game where we had to win and Forest didn’t and having Wheater playing up front for the last 10 minutes is a template for anything then you are bonkers.

For me the biggest thing is we need the wide men to come to the party at home and start producing. I’d like to see Noone actually do something in a Bolton shirt for once. Ameobi is a huge miss as whilst he’s inconsistent he’s miles ahead of the other 3.

[Bruce Rioja]

We'll continue to tvvat it up to the big lad, even when we don't have a big lad, as evidenced by us twatting it up to Le Fondre last season.
Further, if Parkinson wouldn't start with two up top, at home, against a side with as deplorable an away record as QPR then I'm doubting he ever will.
As has been said before - I too am thankful to Parkinson for what he's done, but his lack of any kind of even a curiosity to see how we might play outside of his plan A is as frustrating as it is tedious to watch.

[Jugs]

O’Neil and Williams aren’t defensive midfield players. Most teams fill their midfields with this type. Only Bolton fans who seem to class anyone who isn’t Okocha as a ‘CDM’.

The fact is that had Williams played as he did at Preston we’d been better. The issue at home might not just be formation but also mentality. Perhaps we have a squad who find it easier scrapping against the odds and chasing lost causes than being on the front foot. Sometimes you end up like that, not through design but just by chance.

We don't start with a CM who looks capable of creating anything at home atm. We went with Vela, Lowe and Murphy v Sheffield and it was shite. We went with Lowe, O'Neil and Williams v QPR and it was equally shite. Lots of sideways stuff, no creativity, no penetration and no support for Doige.

I'm telling you mate, it's gonna be one long season of struggle at home unless this is sorted because we're also shipping goals. Defend the 3 CM's all you want, but unless we start creating chances, we will find it tough - to watch as much as anything lol.

We showed against Forest that, if the shackles are off, we can create chances at home. But PP won't bring himself to do it.

But the idea is that our wide players create chances. In the main. As is the case for most of the sides in this league.

The Forest game (where let’s face it 9/10 times we lose) we simply bombed balls into the box and Wilbraham then at him and ALF. Certainly wasn’t any sort of midfield guile at play. But if you think that game where we had to win and Forest didn’t and having Wheater playing up front for the last 10 minutes is a template for anything then you are bonkers.

For me the biggest thing is we need the wide men to come to the party at home and start producing. I’d like to see Noone actually do something in a Bolton shirt for once. Ameobi is a huge miss as whilst he’s inconsistent he’s miles ahead of the other 3.

That's working superbly so far lol.

How about we try something else at home?

We proved against Forest that, when the cards are stacked, we can bombard teams, scare them and register shots. But PP only does it when the cards are stacked. Otherwise, we're cautious against a team 3rd bottom - and lose anyway. There was no midfield craft or guile v Forest but they were positive. That's all I - and I'm sure others - are asking. Wouldn't go amiss.

And now I'm reading that Otz might be starting tonight. Surely made more sense to start him v QPR instead? Won't see much of the ball tonight ...

[twilight]

I'm also confused if he is thinking about starting Oztumer tonight instead of last Saturday against QPR. I know we have more choices in our squad this season, but he seems to be making the wrong choices against the wrong teams.
I would like to see a settled side just for once, and for Parky to be a bit more imaginative in his thinking behind his team to who he is playing against

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Of our three games this week, I'd say this is the one least suited to Oz.

If I were anti-Parky, I could say that he's hanging him out to dry by playing him in one of our toughest games, against oxen. I could further theorise that his rotation will bring in less favoured players for this shot-to-nothing before reinstating his favourites at Ipswich.

If I were pro-Parky, I could say he's backing the wee man to dance through the oxen, and that his team changes show faith in his squad. Indeed, I could point out that he has rotated his XI more than most managers in our division this season: only Reading, Derby, Forest and Preston average more changes to the XI game-on-game.

DnXDbg2XoAAxkDc.jpg (105.69 KiB) Viewed 2484 times

[Jugs]

Of our three games this week, I'd say this is the one least suited to Oz.

If I were anti-Parky, I could say that he's hanging him out to dry by playing him in one of our toughest games, against oxen. I could further theorise that his rotation will bring in less favoured players for this shot-to-nothing before reinstating his favourites at Ipswich.

If I were pro-Parky, I could say he's backing the wee man to dance through the oxen, and that his team changes show faith in his squad. Indeed, I could point out that he has rotated his XI more than most managers in our division this season: only Reading, Derby, Forest and Preston average more changes to the XI game-on-game.

DnXDbg2XoAAxkDc.jpg

And look at the table - the teams that rotate the least always fare better.

Happened with Burnley, Leicester etc

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Of our three games this week, I'd say this is the one least suited to Oz.

If I were anti-Parky, I could say that he's hanging him out to dry by playing him in one of our toughest games, against oxen. I could further theorise that his rotation will bring in less favoured players for this shot-to-nothing before reinstating his favourites at Ipswich.

If I were pro-Parky, I could say he's backing the wee man to dance through the oxen, and that his team changes show faith in his squad. Indeed, I could point out that he has rotated his XI more than most managers in our division this season: only Reading, Derby, Forest and Preston average more changes to the XI game-on-game.

DnXDbg2XoAAxkDc.jpg

And look at the table - the teams that rotate the least always fare better.

Happened with Burnley, Leicester etc

So Parky should rotate less but he should "try something else at home"?

While you're right that a stability can come from success, it's not a pre-requisite. Burnley used the same number of players last season as West Brom, for whom things didn't end up so rosy. The team who made the most changes per game was Liverpool (3.6), and they weren't complaining; Chelsea made the second-most, then United, then Spurs. Meanwhile Cardiff used the seventh-most players in our division, averaging 2.3 changes per game, and went up. This year only three League One clubs have used more players than Sunderland, who are ticking along nicely. Only two League Two clubs have used more players than Lincoln, who are three points clear at the top.

So while you have a point that stability suits some teams (who, as statistical outliers, tend to be noted and remembered), I think "always fare better" might be a touch too strongly-worded.

[Jugs]

Of our three games this week, I'd say this is the one least suited to Oz.

If I were anti-Parky, I could say that he's hanging him out to dry by playing him in one of our toughest games, against oxen. I could further theorise that his rotation will bring in less favoured players for this shot-to-nothing before reinstating his favourites at Ipswich.

If I were pro-Parky, I could say he's backing the wee man to dance through the oxen, and that his team changes show faith in his squad. Indeed, I could point out that he has rotated his XI more than most managers in our division this season: only Reading, Derby, Forest and Preston average more changes to the XI game-on-game.

DnXDbg2XoAAxkDc.jpg

And look at the table - the teams that rotate the least always fare better.

Happened with Burnley, Leicester etc

So Parky should rotate less but he should "try something else at home"?

While you're right that a stability can come from success, it's not a pre-requisite. Burnley used the same number of players last season as West Brom, for whom things didn't end up so rosy. The team who made the most changes per game was Liverpool (3.6), and they weren't complaining; Chelsea made the second-most, then United, then Spurs. Meanwhile Cardiff used the seventh-most players in our division, averaging 2.3 changes per game, and went up. This year only three League One clubs have used more players than Sunderland, who are ticking along nicely. Only two League Two clubs have used more players than Lincoln, who are three points clear at the top.

So while you have a point that stability suits some teams (who, as statistical outliers, tend to be noted and remembered), I think "always fare better" might be a touch too strongly-worded.

Haha I knew someone would pick up on that. I'm not a fan of rotation but this system clearly needs changing at home. Rotation is when a team wins and wins - and the manager still makes changes, as though compulsively. We're playing badly at home and while the midfield personnel is a revolving door, the system remains the same - and ineffective.

The Liverpool one is probably worth a closer look - Klopp spent most of the season trying to find the right defence but the rest of his team will have been largely unchanged. As it has been this season.

Fair enough on my choice of wording but it's well worth taking a broader look at the context behind those stats. It's always struck me that the teams who do well know their best 11. And when they need to adapt to different opponents, the changes aren't massive. Has anyone else noticed that whenever Buckley has a bad game he's dropped altogether, for example? On a number of occasions last season, players would be in the starting 11 one game and then completely out the next. Same with Murphy ATM - and Buckley lol. PP sometimes just doesn't seem to know his best team but he's so sure of his system.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

From about 2007 onwards Fergie didn't name the same XI twice consecutively for 100+ fixtures.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... d-rotation

Up until 2002 he changed his XI in 76 consecutive games:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 767053.stm

Stability can become stasis. It worked for Leicester, but it doesn't always.

And for the record, I agree: we need a different system at home than away. Luckily, our manager has proved himself capable of working out different systems. At the moment, he seems to be feeling his way around the squad's capabilities; hopefully soon we'll have more than one system that works, and we can choose appropriately according to opponents, expectations and game situation. We can't keep hoiking off the left-back and hoping.

[Jugs]

Haha ok, I get it - rotation works.

Hopefully PP will prove more flexible at home but QPR was his big chance to show us some sexy flexibility.

[Jugs]

Literally what was I saying about players either start or are dropped altogether with PP - No Doige in squad tonight lol

[Peter Thompson]

Lots of attacking intent in that line up....

[TANGODANCER]

Literally what was I saying about players either start or are dropped altogether with PP - No Doige in squad tonight lol

I'm being told the link is taking too long to respond. Can you post the line up?

[Peter Thompson]

Alnwick, Lowe, Beevers, Vela, Hobbs, Olkowski, O'Neil, Williams, Magennis, Grounds, Wheater.

[TANGODANCER]

Alnwick, Lowe, Beevers, Vela, Hobbs, Olkowski, O'Neil, Williams, Magennis, Grounds, Wheater.

Thanks, and oh shxt!