Hail the conquering heroes come.......Bolton V Hull, 3-0'clock Sat 27th Oct.

[Harry Genshaw]

We have a lot of shit fans though. I'm sure every club does. But its sticking out more and more. I think its more me just being frustrated that people can't accept we're now a small club with small crowds who won't pay much and no benefactor. Therefore, we're going to struggle in a league where even mid table sides are spending hugely in excess compared to ourselves. Yet there are people on Radio Manchester proclaiming it to be the "worst Bolton side ever" and "won't go till he's sacked" nonsense.

It isn't "their fault" but we are currently budget wise top 6 league one bottom 6 championship. So we are where we should be. I think at Bolton we have one of the larger disparities currently between fan expectation and reality. We used to laugh at other clubs for this.

I think the rise in social media just means we get to hear more from them. At one time it was just the odd nutter stood behind you on the Manny Road or on the GMR phone in.

I'm sure all clubs are the same. My 21 year old nephew saw nothing but us holding our own in the Premier league for the first 10 years of his support. You'd have to be in your late 30s to remember our really bad days so no surprise that some expectations are high.

All being equal we should expect to be on a level footing with Blackburn and above the likes of Wigan, who have similar recent histories. Folk are bound to be at least a bit vexed that we're not.

[BWFC_Insane]

We have a lot of shit fans though. I'm sure every club does. But its sticking out more and more. I think its more me just being frustrated that people can't accept we're now a small club with small crowds who won't pay much and no benefactor. Therefore, we're going to struggle in a league where even mid table sides are spending hugely in excess compared to ourselves. Yet there are people on Radio Manchester proclaiming it to be the "worst Bolton side ever" and "won't go till he's sacked" nonsense.

It isn't "their fault" but we are currently budget wise top 6 league one bottom 6 championship. So we are where we should be. I think at Bolton we have one of the larger disparities currently between fan expectation and reality. We used to laugh at other clubs for this.

I think the rise in social media just means we get to hear more from them. At one time it was just the odd nutter stood behind you on the Manny Road or on the GMR phone in.

I'm sure all clubs are the same. My 21 year old nephew saw nothing but us holding our own in the Premier league for the first 10 years of his support. You'd have to be in your late 30s to remember our really bad days so no surprise that some expectations are high.

All being equal we should expect to be on a level footing with Blackburn and above the likes of Wigan, who have similar recent histories. Folk are bound to be at least a bit vexed that we're not.

Why should we be expected to be on level footing with clubs who have far greater spending power than us currently?

[Harry Genshaw]

Why should we be expected to be on level footing with clubs who have far greater spending power than us currently?

We all have similar levels of support and had 10 unbroken years in the premier league. In theory our spending power should be pretty similar.

I realise it isnt and there's probably some rational explanation beyond my knowledge of financial matters, how they can spend and we have nowt

[BWFC_Insane]

Why should we be expected to be on level footing with clubs who have far greater spending power than us currently?

We all have similar levels of support and had 10 unbroken years in the premier league. In theory our spending power should be pretty similar.

I realise it isnt and there's probably some rational explanation beyond my knowledge of financial matters, how they can spend and we have nowt

They didn't run themselves into debt and get bought at the last minute for £1 by a bloke without the resources to properly support a football club.

[Prufrock]

Doesn't explain Rotherham though, or Hull (injury ruined Hull, no less).

[BWFC_Insane]

Doesn't explain Rotherham though, or Hull (injury ruined Hull, no less).

Doesn't explain one off games? Iles posted an analysis of "squad value" based on expenditure. We're amongst the league one sides. Bottom of the championship.

As I say with our spending over the last few seasons top half league one is roughly where we should be. We are doing better than that.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Doesn't explain Rotherham though, or Hull (injury ruined Hull, no less).

Doesn't explain one off games? Iles posted an analysis of "squad value" based on expenditure. We're amongst the league one sides. Bottom of the championship.

As I say with our spending over the last few seasons top half league one is roughly where we should be. We are doing better than that.

If we were ever again "top half league one", I guarantee we'll be the first ever founder member of the football league to be dismembered. WE ARE LIVING ON A KNIFE EDGE. And you seem to think this is some sort of accomplishment. (and I find your comment that we "have a lot of shit fans" offensive).

[bristol_Wanderer3]

The financial gap is surmountable because the Championship is a weird league and the clubs that have the most money are often the ones in the biggest state of disarray. What isn't is being one of the poorest, along with being one of the least stable with an owner looking to make money out of the club rather than inject funds, and then losing their best player.

[Harry Genshaw]

Why should we be expected to be on level footing with clubs who have far greater spending power than us currently?

We all have similar levels of support and had 10 unbroken years in the premier league. In theory our spending power should be pretty similar.

I realise it isnt and there's probably some rational explanation beyond my knowledge of financial matters, how they can spend and we have nowt

They didn't run themselves into debt and get bought at the last minute for £1 by a bloke without the resources to properly support a football club.

I realise this is a whole other argument but it was something Dave Whelan commented on at the time. He couldn't understand how the figures for our debt were so large compared to theirs given our similar recent history and trajectories.

[Prufrock]

Doesn't explain Rotherham though, or Hull (injury ruined Hull, no less).

Doesn't explain one off games? Iles posted an analysis of "squad value" based on expenditure. We're amongst the league one sides. Bottom of the championship.

As I say with our spending over the last few seasons top half league one is roughly where we should be. We are doing better than that.

You can't have it both ways. It can't be an excuse for why we can't win any games against the better offs unless we should win every game against the worse offs.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Why should we be expected to be on level footing with clubs who have far greater spending power than us currently?

We all have similar levels of support and had 10 unbroken years in the premier league. In theory our spending power should be pretty similar.

I realise it isnt and there's probably some rational explanation beyond my knowledge of financial matters, how they can spend and we have nowt

They didn't run themselves into debt and get bought at the last minute for £1 by a bloke without the resources to properly support a football club.

I realise this is a whole other argument but it was something Dave Whelan commented on at the time. He couldn't understand how the figures for our debt were so large compared to theirs given our similar recent history and trajectories.

Did he mention he'd broken his leg in an FA Cup final?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The financial gap is surmountable because the Championship is a weird league and the clubs that have the most money are often the ones in the biggest state of disarray. What isn't is being one of the poorest, along with being one of the least stable with an owner looking to make money out of the club rather than inject funds, and then losing their best player.

Y'know, that's a fascinating parsing of the problem, one I hadn't really considered.

I wonder how we'd do if we were poor-but-stable: like, I suppose, Rotherham or previously Barnsley. It'd always be a struggle, but it might be a bit... calmer.

Ken's leadership - his wheeler-dealing, his bully pulpit, his son's incessant look-at-me tweeting - lends the place something of a chaotic air. Feels like we're always a couple of losses away from a nose-dive, and it can't be denied that the management's tendency toward the streaky contributes to that, too. But while I wouldn't agree with BWFCi's somewhat inflammatory description of our fans, I do wonder if the PL era has given many us Wanderers (for we are all Wanderers... the only requirement for membership is identification with the team) ideas above our station. I bet there are fewer Barnsley/Rotherham or even Millwall fans who think We Should Be Better Than This. (And yes, I know there's a stylistic overlay to that plaintive cry, but it's always a bit of a side issue: did the crowds zoom up when Coyle replaced Megson or Lennon replaced Freedman?)

[TANGODANCER]

did the crowds zoom up when Coyle replaced Megson or Lennon replaced Freedman?)

They wouldn't necessarily zoom up if we appointed Guardiola or Jose Maurinho and signed Messi and Hazard if we carried on losing; but if we gave Dave Lee the job and we won three or four in a row, the seats would soon get filled and everybody would be happy. A very obvious N.S.S, but owners, managers and even star players matter not an iota unless the team win. That's about it in a nutshell. We need to win.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

The financial gap is surmountable because the Championship is a weird league and the clubs that have the most money are often the ones in the biggest state of disarray. What isn't is being one of the poorest, along with being one of the least stable with an owner looking to make money out of the club rather than inject funds, and then losing their best player.

Y'know, that's a fascinating parsing of the problem, one I hadn't really considered.

I wonder how we'd do if we were poor-but-stable: like, I suppose, Rotherham or previously Barnsley. It'd always be a struggle, but it might be a bit... calmer.

Ken's leadership - his wheeler-dealing, his bully pulpit, his son's incessant look-at-me tweeting - lends the place something of a chaotic air. Feels like we're always a couple of losses away from a nose-dive, and it can't be denied that the management's tendency toward the streaky contributes to that, too. But while I wouldn't agree with BWFCi's somewhat inflammatory description of our fans, I do wonder if the PL era has given many us Wanderers (for we are all Wanderers... the only requirement for membership is identification with the team) ideas above our station. I bet there are fewer Barnsley/Rotherham or even Millwall fans who think We Should Be Better Than This. (And yes, I know there's a stylistic overlay to that plaintive cry, but it's always a bit of a side issue: did the crowds zoom up when Coyle replaced Megson or Lennon replaced Freedman?)

I would cite clubs like Preston, Bristol City, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Brentford, as well as Millwall. Even Blackburn at this moment.

Clubs who as Championship clubs operate on a similar budget to ours, but have owners who whilst are wealthy, don't inject funds that allows their club to consistently operate above it's natural means, but are there to cover losses if necessary, improve the infrastructure, provide stability.

I think of those clubs who are in the Championship (obviously Huddersfield have already hit the jackpot), they aren't much behind the likes of Aston Villa, West Brom, Stoke, Middlesbrough who are able to spend loads more on players, but are having to manage a steep downsizing at the same time. Obviously the clubs with more modest means have to get it right with the choice of manager and do well in the market.

With us, I feel our squad is good enough to stay up, but we are model of instability and uncertainty. I still feel the Blumarble administration debacle had a shock factor that is still reverberating, although it did occur at the same time we lost Ameobi.

[BWFC_Insane]

Doesn't explain Rotherham though, or Hull (injury ruined Hull, no less).

Doesn't explain one off games? Iles posted an analysis of "squad value" based on expenditure. We're amongst the league one sides. Bottom of the championship.

As I say with our spending over the last few seasons top half league one is roughly where we should be. We are doing better than that.

You can't have it both ways. It can't be an excuse for why we can't win any games against the better offs unless we should win every game against the worse offs.

Its not an excuse. Its a reason why our current level of performance and performance over the past 2 years is actually overachieving massively against where we are as a football club.

Individual games come down to lots of things, quality of players being one.

But averaged over a season you usually finish roughly where your spending power dictates. There are always anomalies and one offs and whatever. Its not a 100% correlation. But its close.

And we're not talking about a lack of investment in the playing squad (relative to the rest of the division) for a season or two. This goes back well before Parky arrived. We've had years of not investing in the 1st team.

Now, it doesn't mean we cannot pick up results. We've beaten WBA for example. And we will pick up results. It doesn't mean everything is "excused" on that basis. What it means is that the reality is that we're down amongst the likes of Blackpool in terms of our ability to sign quality. It is with that perspective that we should consider things.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The financial gap is surmountable because the Championship is a weird league and the clubs that have the most money are often the ones in the biggest state of disarray. What isn't is being one of the poorest, along with being one of the least stable with an owner looking to make money out of the club rather than inject funds, and then losing their best player.

Y'know, that's a fascinating parsing of the problem, one I hadn't really considered.

I wonder how we'd do if we were poor-but-stable: like, I suppose, Rotherham or previously Barnsley. It'd always be a struggle, but it might be a bit... calmer.

Ken's leadership - his wheeler-dealing, his bully pulpit, his son's incessant look-at-me tweeting - lends the place something of a chaotic air. Feels like we're always a couple of losses away from a nose-dive, and it can't be denied that the management's tendency toward the streaky contributes to that, too. But while I wouldn't agree with BWFCi's somewhat inflammatory description of our fans, I do wonder if the PL era has given many us Wanderers (for we are all Wanderers... the only requirement for membership is identification with the team) ideas above our station. I bet there are fewer Barnsley/Rotherham or even Millwall fans who think We Should Be Better Than This. (And yes, I know there's a stylistic overlay to that plaintive cry, but it's always a bit of a side issue: did the crowds zoom up when Coyle replaced Megson or Lennon replaced Freedman?)

I would cite clubs like Preston, Bristol City, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Brentford, as well as Millwall. Even Blackburn at this moment.

Clubs who as Championship clubs operate on a similar budget to ours, but have owners who whilst are wealthy, don't inject funds that allows their club to consistently operate above it's natural means, but are there to cover losses if necessary, improve the infrastructure, provide stability.

I think of those clubs who are in the Championship (obviously Huddersfield have already hit the jackpot), they aren't much behind the likes of Aston Villa, West Brom, Stoke, Middlesbrough who are able to spend loads more on players, but are having to manage a steep downsizing at the same time. Obviously the clubs with more modest means have to get it right with the choice of manager and do well in the market.

With us, I feel our squad is good enough to stay up, but we are model of instability and uncertainty. I still feel the Blumarble administration debacle had a shock factor that is still reverberating, although it did occur at the same time we lost Ameobi.

Good old Swiss Ramble has just posted details on Norwich's latest accounts. They're a profitable club as long as they're in the Premier or selling all their best players: they made £48m on sales last season. See full thread at https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 4295490561