A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:54 am

Tombwfc wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:48 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:24 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:12 pm
Let's not lose sight of the fact he has done a fantastic job... But it's clearly as well as he can do. We are 100% going down with him in charge, but some freshness may just give us the bounce we need. It probably won't.. but it COULD
Trouble is usually it either changes nothing or things get worse. Which is why statistically clubs are changing managers so often.

Our own history also points to this.


Normally you take the risk and hope as you say. When you can't pay the bills though and aren't sure you will attract the right quality of applicant...I'm still not sure.

Which of Lee, Megson, Coyle, Freedman and Lennon do you think we'd have been better off sticking with?

Our own history suggests that if we sack Parky, we'll stay up. Other than Lennon to Phillips (when we were already effectively relegated), our history of sacking managers is excellent. Big Sam and Rioch left of their own volition, so how far would you have to go back to find a time where we potted a manager, and the new man didn't improve us in the short term? The mid-80s?

Longer term, I think it's hard to argue that our general decline is down to a high turnover of managers, not the arse falling out of the bottom of the club.
I broadly agree with that, but, it doesn't have to be one or the other. And none of those managers had a track record like PP has.

Personally I'd stick almost no matter what. I think last year was a borderline miracle and this year we're still nowhere near down. I think very very few managers could keep us up and a vanishingly small number who we might be able to get.

That all said I don't go. I haven't sat through 4 home defeats without a goal. I'm not paying (or much) to see our sometimes on ok, sometimes parody of anti-football.

Going down with Parky might be the best option, but it's hard to argue with someone who has to go, and fancies a roll of the dice. I think, unless we get investment though, we're going down in the next 3 years minimum. The ultimate problem certainly isn't the manager.
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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by twilight » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:42 am

Thanks pru for saying you don't go. If I didn't go, wasn't a STH I might be able to turn a blind eye and forget about it and say on to the next match. But I can't justify paying and having to go and watch the dire negative games each time and knowing when and not if the opposition scores, usually within the first 15 mins of a match its game over.
You might as well go out of the stadium and go to the cinema or wherever because sparky doesn't change anything. It's dejavu. And this is in no way being disrespectful to the non match goers.
I took 6 people on Saturday on the ticket offer. They won't be going again!!
I also dread going, don't enjoy it. I'm sure there are other ways I can suffer on a Saturday and not pay for it!!
This reminds me of the first 11 games last season and to me we have gone worse because at least we scored goals.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:02 am

twilight wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:42 am
Thanks pru for saying you don't go. If I didn't go, wasn't a STH I might be able to turn a blind eye and forget about it and say on to the next match. But I can't justify paying and having to go and watch the dire negative games each time and knowing when and not if the opposition scores, usually within the first 15 mins of a match its game over.
You might as well go out of the stadium and go to the cinema or wherever because sparky doesn't change anything. It's dejavu. And this is in no way being disrespectful to the non match goers.
I took 6 people on Saturday on the ticket offer. They won't be going again!!
I also dread going, don't enjoy it. I'm sure there are other ways I can suffer on a Saturday and not pay for it!!
This reminds me of the first 11 games last season and to me we have gone worse because at least we scored goals.
We are a struggling team because we lack the quality of many teams in this league.

I find it amazing how many Bolton fans cannot cope with watching a team that is struggling. It isn't great but this is what supporting a local town club involves. It will never always be top 10 premiership finishes. There will be periods when you are struggling in the lower end of leagues. It is what happens. It makes the next success period all the sweeter.

Hate to sound like a Brexiteer type but show some moral fibre. The suffering is all part of being a supporter and I wouldn't swap any of it for the world. Of course I'd like us to be better to be good, to win stuff. But we're not at a point where that is going to happen due to the financial position we're in. This modern football fanitis of "we want an attractive winning team NOW, and if we don't get it we stamp our feet" does my head in. Not everyone can have that all the time. Football is about peaks and troughs, even for the biggest clubs on earth.

I get being frustrated or annoyed with the manager or whatever. But the suffering is what makes the eventual joy all that much better. I could possibly cope with the complaints more if we weren't off the back of two successful seasons. There are clubs who won't have a celebratory pitch invasion in decades. Clubs who have had one promotion in 30 odd years. Their fans still go.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by twilight » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am

Bwci. I'm going to put this as politely as I can. Do NOT tell me to be a bit more brexiteer or whatever you call it. If you want to pay loads of money to pay for watching trash then do it.
I on the other hand want to think we have a bit of competitiveness in US to at least keep me awake.
I have been going since I was 7 I do support them. But do you think then it's better to support them by staying away? Because that is what it's doing. What they going to do then with no support. Stop being soiled righteous!

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by twilight » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am

I meant self righteous 😊

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:15 am

I understand what you're saying, BWFCi, but it's a lot of money to not get entertained.

Like Pru, I only go once every couple of months. It doesn't stop me having opinions - you might have noticed - and I've certainly earned the right to them over decades of hope, disappointment, coach journeys from Travel Club or dodgy pub, long lonely drives, windy train platforms, fleet-footed escapes from idiotic locals, idiotic managers, non-league grounds, ridiculous substitutions, has-beens, never-will-bes, financial abysses, wondering if the club will stay alive, wondering exactly how we get beat 4-0 by Scarborough, all that shite.

But - and it's an important but - the cost of watching football has risen far in advance of wage inflation. Football fans are treated like consumers when it suits the clubs (who made a concerted effort to switch from attracting C2DEs to ABC1s) but also like docile sheep when it suits them. With a rising tide of poverty in this country and a phenomenal proliferation of Other Things To Do even if you have got the wherewithal, I can have no argument with people who decide to stop going – whether that's dropping from STH to regular, regular to casual or casual to well-wisher.

As it happens, I think the effect can be overstated. I've delved into the figures before on here and found there's been no major uptick in gates when we've gone for "sexy football" - I think it went up like 400 from Freedman to Lennon, and that was arguably partly because of more attractive (or better followed) visitors. Success doesn't really work either: no notable uptick in Sam's tier-two seasons.

If folk don't want to go, they won't go, and that's up to them. Some will say it's about the style of football, and they may be right. But hiring Guardiola wouldn't guarantee a gate boost.

EDIT Here's some of the digging I did. That wasn't the thread I expected, so I may have done it twice...
https://the-wanderer.co.uk/boards/viewtopic.php?t=26239

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:21 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:15 am
I understand what you're saying, BWFCi, but it's a lot of money to not get entertained.

Like Pru, I only go once every couple of months. It doesn't stop me having opinions - you might have noticed - and I've certainly earned the right to them over decades of hope, disappointment, coach journeys from Travel Club or dodgy pub, long lonely drives, windy train platforms, fleet-footed escapes from idiotic locals, idiotic managers, non-league grounds, ridiculous substitutions, has-beens, never-will-bes, financial abysses, wondering if the club will stay alive, wondering exactly how we get beat 4-0 by Scarborough, all that shite.

But - and it's an important but - the cost of watching football has risen far in advance of wage inflation. Football fans are treated like consumers when it suits the clubs (who made a concerted effort to switch from attracting C2DEs to ABC1s) but also like docile sheep when it suits them. With a rising tide of poverty in this country and a phenomenal proliferation of Other Things To Do even if you have got the wherewithal, I can have no argument with people who decide to stop going – whether that's dropping from STH to regular, regular to casual or casual to well-wisher.

As it happens, I think the effect can be overstated. I've delved into the figures before on here and found there's been no major uptick in gates when we've gone for "sexy football" - I think it went up like 400 from Freedman to Lennon, and that was arguably partly because of more attractive (or better followed) visitors. Success doesn't really work either: no notable uptick in Sam's tier-two seasons.

If folk don't want to go, they won't go, and that's up to them. Some will say it's about the style of football, and they may be right. But hiring Guardiola wouldn't guarantee a gate boost.
If we lost 5-4 every week the moans wouldn't stop. Lets be clear - this is about winning vs losing.

Not every team can win. Not every team can be successful. You have periods of success and periods of failure. We're in a slump now, and of course people will complain and moan and whatever.

Its the complete lack of awareness of it that riles me. The self entitlement. We are not a premiership club by size naturally. We are probably currently about where we should be on average. Eddies' fortunes and Allardyces' brilliance lifted us above it. But that happens. See Stoke right now after a similar top flight spell. You won't have those great days forever, so enjoy them whilst they last then re-adjust expectations.

I'm not saying don't have opinions and I get the money spent to watch a poor, poor team is hard to justify. But the club has on several occassions in the past few years nearly gone under. The fact it still just about survives today shows where we are. It needs support - and it needs fans to be realistic about our situation. Until a rich backer arrives (and lets face it, some of us might never see it in our lifetimes) we're going to struggle in modern football. I know a Barnsley fan who was bemoaning their performances last season - same comments "we're boring - no excitement - grim - depressing". It is the same for the majority of football fans. That's the reality.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:26 am

twilight wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am
Bwci. I'm going to put this as politely as I can. Do NOT tell me to be a bit more brexiteer or whatever you call it. If you want to pay loads of money to pay for watching trash then do it.
I on the other hand want to think we have a bit of competitiveness in US to at least keep me awake.
I have been going since I was 7 I do support them. But do you think then it's better to support them by staying away? Because that is what it's doing. What they going to do then with no support. Stop being soiled righteous!
I'm saying - you support the club - we know its having hard times financially now and has for several years. Inspite of that we've just had two seasons with pitch invasions. Is it good? No. Is it depressing? Yes. But it was ever thus. We're no different than the vast majority of the league.

Season tickets are good value relatively and yes the football on offer isn't great. But it isn't great for the majority of league clubs. That's the nature of football. We're not able to get the best players. But eventually it will turn and we'll have a good period in the club's history again.

But you complain without actually saying what you want anyone to do? We've gone through years of sacking managers - did it make the football experience any better? No. So what do you want Ken to do?

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:47 am

Confession time:
In the very strictest of terms, although I never miss listening to a single game (or watching where I can) and supporting none but the Whites for 70 years, I suppose I'd be classed as a no-fan now. I can use my age, being 80 next year and not owning a car anymore ,to some degree, and a dodgy knee as a very relevant reason, but the main reason is I simply cannot afford the crazy prices football costs these days. I'm being perfectly honest now in saying that up to 31 years of age I didn't really get to all that many Saturday games either due to playing amateur football and cricket Saturdays and Sundays all and every season, Wherever possible I went to midweek games and also some away games. Add raising three kids and working a lot of Saturdays till 1-0'clock, mainly in Liverpool, and my history as a fan takes a nosedive. That said, since my first Wanderers game at 8 years old, I've ever been a Whites fan. In short (he finally gets to the point) it's the greed of owners, agents and players that has made watching football no longer a joy and losing regularly as a real reason fans pack it in. The fans are providing the greedy with good livings, big houses, long holiday abroad and flash cars, in return for what?

This site was one of the busiest internet places around for Wanderers fans a few years ago , where are they all now? At least in that aspect I've done my bit. I watched the televised F.A. Cup game the other night between non-league Haringey Borough and Wimbledon. The locals turned out in force ( all 1500 or so of them plus the visitors) and supported their team in an absolute 90 minute downpour. They lost (a bit unfairly) , in the end, but would they swap their weekly visit ( very reminiscent to a period of the embankment days at Burnden) to watch at prices they can afford for what we as Whites fans have? Somehow, I doubt it.

Amen. ae:)
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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by elhadj » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:50 am

We have another option , jokanovic sacked from Fulham .

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:21 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:02 am
twilight wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:42 am
Thanks pru for saying you don't go. If I didn't go, wasn't a STH I might be able to turn a blind eye and forget about it and say on to the next match. But I can't justify paying and having to go and watch the dire negative games each time and knowing when and not if the opposition scores, usually within the first 15 mins of a match its game over.
You might as well go out of the stadium and go to the cinema or wherever because sparky doesn't change anything. It's dejavu. And this is in no way being disrespectful to the non match goers.
I took 6 people on Saturday on the ticket offer. They won't be going again!!
I also dread going, don't enjoy it. I'm sure there are other ways I can suffer on a Saturday and not pay for it!!
This reminds me of the first 11 games last season and to me we have gone worse because at least we scored goals.
We are a struggling team because we lack the quality of many teams in this league.

I find it amazing how many Bolton fans cannot cope with watching a team that is struggling. It isn't great but this is what supporting a local town club involves. It will never always be top 10 premiership finishes. There will be periods when you are struggling in the lower end of leagues. It is what happens. It makes the next success period all the sweeter.

Hate to sound like a Brexiteer type but show some moral fibre. The suffering is all part of being a supporter and I wouldn't swap any of it for the world. Of course I'd like us to be better to be good, to win stuff. But we're not at a point where that is going to happen due to the financial position we're in. This modern football fanitis of "we want an attractive winning team NOW, and if we don't get it we stamp our feet" does my head in. Not everyone can have that all the time. Football is about peaks and troughs, even for the biggest clubs on earth.

I get being frustrated or annoyed with the manager or whatever. But the suffering is what makes the eventual joy all that much better. I could possibly cope with the complaints more if we weren't off the back of two successful seasons. There are clubs who won't have a celebratory pitch invasion in decades. Clubs who have had one promotion in 30 odd years. Their fans still go.
Haven't posted on here for ages and won't again but pop in to have a look occasionally and thought I'd make an exception to say 'Fcuk off you arrogant self righteous cnut.'
Jesus wept, I've read some shit from you before but 'moral fibre'!? Unbelievable.

Twilight, keep on being a proper football fan who it's been a pleasure to meet and who cares enough to want things to change. Never be like a soulless prick who thinks he's clever going on about balance sheets. I struggle to imagine how dull and obnoxious he is in real life, which is why he swamps this site with his tiresome repetitive bilge.
...

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:24 pm

elhadj wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:50 am
We have another option , jokanovic sacked from Fulham .
Harry Kewell has got the boot at Notts County and Phil Brown at Swindon amongst others . Sacking is the name of the game it seems..
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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:02 am
twilight wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:42 am
Thanks pru for saying you don't go. If I didn't go, wasn't a STH I might be able to turn a blind eye and forget about it and say on to the next match. But I can't justify paying and having to go and watch the dire negative games each time and knowing when and not if the opposition scores, usually within the first 15 mins of a match its game over.
You might as well go out of the stadium and go to the cinema or wherever because sparky doesn't change anything. It's dejavu. And this is in no way being disrespectful to the non match goers.
I took 6 people on Saturday on the ticket offer. They won't be going again!!
I also dread going, don't enjoy it. I'm sure there are other ways I can suffer on a Saturday and not pay for it!!
This reminds me of the first 11 games last season and to me we have gone worse because at least we scored goals.
We are a struggling team because we lack the quality of many teams in this league.

I find it amazing how many Bolton fans cannot cope with watching a team that is struggling. It isn't great but this is what supporting a local town club involves. It will never always be top 10 premiership finishes. There will be periods when you are struggling in the lower end of leagues. It is what happens. It makes the next success period all the sweeter.

Hate to sound like a Brexiteer type but show some moral fibre. The suffering is all part of being a supporter and I wouldn't swap any of it for the world. Of course I'd like us to be better to be good, to win stuff. But we're not at a point where that is going to happen due to the financial position we're in. This modern football fanitis of "we want an attractive winning team NOW, and if we don't get it we stamp our feet" does my head in. Not everyone can have that all the time. Football is about peaks and troughs, even for the biggest clubs on earth.

I get being frustrated or annoyed with the manager or whatever. But the suffering is what makes the eventual joy all that much better. I could possibly cope with the complaints more if we weren't off the back of two successful seasons. There are clubs who won't have a celebratory pitch invasion in decades. Clubs who have had one promotion in 30 odd years. Their fans still go.
Haven't posted on here for ages and won't again but pop in to have a look occasionally and thought I'd make an exception to say 'Fcuk off you arrogant self righteous cnut.'
Jesus wept, I've read some shit from you before but 'moral fibre'!? Unbelievable.

Twilight, keep on being a proper football fan who it's been a pleasure to meet and who cares enough to want things to change. Never be like a soulless prick who thinks he's clever going on about balance sheets. I struggle to imagine how dull and obnoxious he is in real life, which is why he swamps this site with his tiresome repetitive bilge.
Indeed. We should all moan and act in a self entitled manner like the massive pricks we've mocked down the years at clubs like West Ham, Spurs, Newcastle, Sunderland etc.....yep carry on with that - its definitely going to make things better. Even better not turning up at all. That'll learn em.

We've had it worse than this - except whilst people moaned - they didn't scream like 4 year olds throwing a tantrum every other bleeding weekend.

The time for fecking doing something was when our premiership status was being robbed by c*nt Coyle. That was when the club actually had options and still a chance to save itself from this - yet we mindnumbingly sleepwalked to disaster. But now. fecking now we are penniless, surviving day to day and week to week and trying to ensure there is still a football club to support in a year's time (or I hope we are who knows what Ken is doing).

This is football. Ups and downs. The downs make the ups all the sweeter. We cannot as fans complain of our lot since the early 90's onwards. We've had some fantastic times considering the clubs we were alongside during the late 80's and early 90's. The entire lack of perspective now is deeply irritating.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by elhadj » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:40 pm

Come on Mr Ken sell Bolton to somebody who is ready to put some cash and bring good player , and don't forget to take Parkinson and Parkin with you .

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:08 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 pm

they didn't scream like 4 year olds throwing a tantrum every other bleeding weekend.

The time for fecking doing something was when our premiership status was being robbed by c*nt Coyle.
You don't do irony do you?
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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by Tombwfc » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:05 am

So because we've had some good times in the recent past, we now have to repay the universe by paying £30 a fortnight to watch miserable, boring football for the next decade? That's not showing moral fibre, that's masochism.

We're not always going to win, or play well, but as a competitive football club the basic requirement is that you try and do those things. If the current players and/or management can't do it, try something else. You can't just accept that our lot is to get relegated and go months on end without scoring a goal.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:42 am

Tombwfc wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:05 am
So because we've had some good times in the recent past, we now have to repay the universe by paying £30 a fortnight to watch miserable, boring football for the next decade? That's not showing moral fibre, that's masochism.

We're not always going to win, or play well, but as a competitive football club the basic requirement is that you try and do those things. If the current players and/or management can't do it, try something else. You can't just accept that our lot is to get relegated and go months on end without scoring a goal.
You can’t do what you can’t afford. We are losing money. Changing things costs money. Money we don’t have.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:35 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:08 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 pm

they didn't scream like 4 year olds throwing a tantrum every other bleeding weekend.

The time for fecking doing something was when our premiership status was being robbed by c*nt Coyle.
You don't do irony do you?
The only real difference between now and the bad times we endured in the 80s is back then you only got to hear from those immediately around you, or a phone in. Now, anyone can whinge until their heart is content on social media, forums etc. The only other difference, as it feels looking on from a distance and perhaps dodgy memory, is that it feels like there is less up and at the opposition. That doesn't require ability, tactics or Guardiola. If we had a bit more Supa John passion in the team I think folk might be a bit more forgiving of the rest.

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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm

Tombwfc wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:05 am
So because we've had some good times in the recent past, we now have to repay the universe by paying £30 a fortnight to watch miserable, boring football for the next decade? That's not showing moral fibre, that's masochism.

We're not always going to win, or play well, but as a competitive football club the basic requirement is that you try and do those things. If the current players and/or management can't do it, try something else. You can't just accept that our lot is to get relegated and go months on end without scoring a goal.
I agree.
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Re: A welcome on the hillside......V Swansea at home, Sat 10-11-18 , 3-o'clock.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:14 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:35 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:08 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 pm

they didn't scream like 4 year olds throwing a tantrum every other bleeding weekend.

The time for fecking doing something was when our premiership status was being robbed by c*nt Coyle.
You don't do irony do you?
The only real difference between now and the bad times we endured in the 80s is back then you only got to hear from those immediately around you, or a phone in. Now, anyone can whinge until their heart is content on social media, forums etc. The only other difference, as it feels looking on from a distance and perhaps dodgy memory, is that it feels like there is less up and at the opposition. That doesn't require ability, tactics or Guardiola. If we had a bit more Supa John passion in the team I think folk might be a bit more forgiving of the rest.
Well, personally speaking, another difference was that even when we lost in the 80s I still had faith we were striving to be the Ultimate World Fxcking Champions. I'm really fxcked off with this Parky will do crap. He Will Not Do.
That's not a leopard!
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