"Leeds kindly light....V Leeds at home 3-0'clock Sat 15-12-2018

[Harry Genshaw]

Our lack of attempts on goal in home matches is a real worry. Recent home games have seen Blackburn, Hull, Wigan and Leeds all have it relatively easy once they've scored. We could have taken something from all of them (extra in the case of Wigan) if we'd actually managed a shot or two.

I get there is a huge financial disparity and the team are working hard but we should be creating more than what we are. Quality of chances are important but Rotherham had 24 attempts in their game yesterday. Thats got to give them more chances of converting one than us with our 0 or 1 effort. They've found a way to get shots in. It's about time we did.

A good start would be more training on set pieces. They were poor again yesterday

[enrdentw]

We're not half as bad as I thought we might be. Haven't been to a game for a couple of months.

I didn't see the first 15 minutes for reasons below **, but I only saw Leeds have two shots. A 0-0 was probably the right result, and could easily have been 1-1 with the penalty.

What struck me about the game was just how many time Leeds gave us possession in their own third, only for our first touch or final pass to be woeful. Must have happened 7 or 8 times, largely due to Vela harrassing them. Leeds just kept giving the ball over, safe in the knowledge that we wouldn't hurt them, even if we had 50 chances of 3 vs 3. In hindsight, Oztumer could have come on earlier, he seems to the be the only one with a decent first touch, and eye for a pass. The rest panic and have no idea what to do. Ameobi could have been the difference.

Noone and Buckley must be the two worst wingers in the division. How many times can you take the wrong option, or just plain fall over the ball.

** About missing the first 15 minutes of the game ...

1) I usually book online on the morning of the game. The website was down in that it would take me through to the final confirmation page, which would not load. Tried for over 3 hours.

2) 2 hours before the game, called the 'BWFC ticket office', clearly managed somewhere else, and a Russian fellow told me 'tickets for today's event are only open to season ticket holders'. WTF ?!

3) So thought I'd just queue up at Bolton Central. 15 minutes before the game, they have a power failure, and need to sort that before restarting their computers, to get the booking system up and running again. So in the queue for 20-25 minutes, and miss the first 15 minutes of the game.

I take Ken's advice in trying to be 'loud and proud', but with crappy weather, a losing streak, no chance of us troubling their keeper, a club run by a donkey, and goodness knows how many other reasons to not go, surely they should make the process of getting a ticket easier.

Great summary, Jonny. A summary of someone who actually went to the game. I watched the game on a stream and completely agree about how we failed to punish Leeds when they gave the ball away in good areas for us. It happened time after time...

Shame about the ticket situation... When it rains it pours, I suppose.

[Peter Thompson]

Those who still go will soon have a full row of seats each....absolutely loads of ST holders have stopped going it's that dire, apathy has certainly set in - there were certainly more than 2,000 missing fans on Saturday, no way was there anywhere near 13,000 home fans in the stadium (probably around 10k home fans) - every home stand was half empty at best. They are counting all ST's in the attendance figures regardless of whether they attend or not.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our lack of attempts on goal in home matches is a real worry. Recent home games have seen Blackburn, Hull, Wigan and Leeds all have it relatively easy once they've scored. We could have taken something from all of them (extra in the case of Wigan) if we'd actually managed a shot or two.

I get there is a huge financial disparity and the team are working hard but we should be creating more than what we are. Quality of chances are important but Rotherham had 24 attempts in their game yesterday. Thats got to give them more chances of converting one than us with our 0 or 1 effort. They've found a way to get shots in. It's about time we did.

A good start would be more training on set pieces. They were poor again yesterday

Yep. And it costs nothing to have a shot. Noone and Buckley are just absolutely dreadful. If you really want to analyse our problems start there. Both had great chances to get a shot in or take their man on and both failed to do so time and time again.

The midfield as per last year has no goals in it. The problem is as a team we have nobody who can make something happen.

Last year we had Madine at his best and played off him. Ameobi, although inconsistent also offers something that can win a game. But beyond him, we are so devoid of attacking championship quality it is crazy.

Our back four, Lowe and Williams are IMO quite good. What is in front of them is abysmal.

[Enoch]

I wonder if there's a familiar theme at work here.

At the Den a few games back, Buckley put in a standout performance. Are there any on here that travel as often as they attend the University of Bolton Stadium and if so, would you say there are players in the current squad that regularly perform better when away than at home?

I've certainly witnessed that type of form in the past.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Our lack of attempts on goal in home matches is a real worry. Recent home games have seen Blackburn, Hull, Wigan and Leeds all have it relatively easy once they've scored. We could have taken something from all of them (extra in the case of Wigan) if we'd actually managed a shot or two.

I get there is a huge financial disparity and the team are working hard but we should be creating more than what we are. Quality of chances are important but Rotherham had 24 attempts in their game yesterday. Thats got to give them more chances of converting one than us with our 0 or 1 effort. They've found a way to get shots in. It's about time we did.

A good start would be more training on set pieces. They were poor again yesterday

Yep. And it costs nothing to have a shot. Noone and Buckley are just absolutely dreadful. If you really want to analyse our problems start there. Both had great chances to get a shot in or take their man on and both failed to do so time and time again.

The midfield as per last year has no goals in it. The problem is as a team we have nobody who can make something happen.

Last year we had Madine at his best and played off him. Ameobi, although inconsistent also offers something that can win a game. But beyond him, we are so devoid of attacking championship quality it is crazy.

Our back four, Lowe and Williams are IMO quite good. What is in front of them is abysmal.

Madine, at his best...
go on, remind how he's taking the world by storm, now.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our lack of attempts on goal in home matches is a real worry. Recent home games have seen Blackburn, Hull, Wigan and Leeds all have it relatively easy once they've scored. We could have taken something from all of them (extra in the case of Wigan) if we'd actually managed a shot or two.

I get there is a huge financial disparity and the team are working hard but we should be creating more than what we are. Quality of chances are important but Rotherham had 24 attempts in their game yesterday. Thats got to give them more chances of converting one than us with our 0 or 1 effort. They've found a way to get shots in. It's about time we did.

A good start would be more training on set pieces. They were poor again yesterday

Yep. And it costs nothing to have a shot. Noone and Buckley are just absolutely dreadful. If you really want to analyse our problems start there. Both had great chances to get a shot in or take their man on and both failed to do so time and time again.

The midfield as per last year has no goals in it. The problem is as a team we have nobody who can make something happen.

Last year we had Madine at his best and played off him. Ameobi, although inconsistent also offers something that can win a game. But beyond him, we are so devoid of attacking championship quality it is crazy.

Our back four, Lowe and Williams are IMO quite good. What is in front of them is abysmal.

Madine, at his best...
go on, remind how he's taking the world by storm, now.

Its pretty irrelevant. He scored 10 goals and was our focal point in a period we picked up the majority of our points last season.

Regardless of what he's doing now, we have nobody capable of that in the current squad. And if you look beyond that we lack the players general capable of scoring goals regularly enough to stay out of trouble. You need people to chip in if you have Magennis up front but the midfield, like last season do not look like doing so.

[BWFC_Insane]

I wonder if there's a familiar theme at work here.

At the Den a few games back, Buckley put in a standout performance. Are there any on here that travel as often as they attend the University of Bolton Stadium and if so, would you say there are players in the current squad that regularly perform better when away than at home?

I've certainly witnessed that type of form in the past.

Psychologically they struggle more perhaps. But the bottom line for me with both Buckley and Noone at home, and away, they are honest grafters who will score the odd goal between them. But neither will consistently create or score chances over a season and both revert to "workmanlike" over anything inspirational. Both more likely to lose the ball than retain it.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Our lack of attempts on goal in home matches is a real worry. Recent home games have seen Blackburn, Hull, Wigan and Leeds all have it relatively easy once they've scored. We could have taken something from all of them (extra in the case of Wigan) if we'd actually managed a shot or two.

I get there is a huge financial disparity and the team are working hard but we should be creating more than what we are. Quality of chances are important but Rotherham had 24 attempts in their game yesterday. Thats got to give them more chances of converting one than us with our 0 or 1 effort. They've found a way to get shots in. It's about time we did.

A good start would be more training on set pieces. They were poor again yesterday

Yep. And it costs nothing to have a shot. Noone and Buckley are just absolutely dreadful. If you really want to analyse our problems start there. Both had great chances to get a shot in or take their man on and both failed to do so time and time again.

The midfield as per last year has no goals in it. The problem is as a team we have nobody who can make something happen.

Last year we had Madine at his best and played off him. Ameobi, although inconsistent also offers something that can win a game. But beyond him, we are so devoid of attacking championship quality it is crazy.

Our back four, Lowe and Williams are IMO quite good. What is in front of them is abysmal.

Madine, at his best...
go on, remind how he's taking the world by storm, now.

Its pretty irrelevant. He scored 10 goals and was our focal point in a period we picked up the majority of our points last season.

Regardless of what he's doing now, we have nobody capable of that in the current squad. And if you look beyond that we lack the players general capable of scoring goals regularly enough to stay out of trouble. You need people to chip in if you have Magennis up front but the midfield, like last season do not look like doing so.

In a bath of shit even the odd turd floats to the top.
To found and lead a church based on worshipping the odd floating turd is well within the realm of nutters...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I was never a Madine fan but he literally got results last year. Put it another way, can anyone imagine a promotion-chasing club spending £6m on any of our players this year?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I was never a Madine fan but he literally got results last year. Put it another way, can anyone imagine a promotion-chasing club spending £6m on any of our players this year?

No, I can't.
It still doesn't turn Madine into Jesus Christ Superstar. Can I remind all of us that we were below the dotted lines when he fxcked off to perform his miracles elsewhere. Or is that irrelevant in the worshipful company...

[Tombwfc]

According to WhoScored.com, we average 2.6 efforts on target per game, the division's second-lowest: Ipswich are worse. So far, so obvious, but the opposite doesn't apply: the team who've averaged the most efforts on target is Brentford (5.5), who are 19th in the only table that matters. Then it's Villa. Bristol are 5th (14th in the proper table), Preston 7th (15th), Rotherham 11th (20th). It's not just quantity, but quality.

Even so, there's a point there somewhere. I note enrdentw's argument that Hobbs had a header cleared in the six-yard box, but I can only go off the recorded datasets, and according to the reported figures this was only the second time this season we've not troubled the goalkeeper: the other, unforgivably, was at Ipswich. But we don't trouble them enough. Not for the first time, Nicholaldo's quietly right: the defence is probably playing at Champo standard - only 10 teams have conceded fewer than us. But the attacking end is nowhere near good enough: we've only scored 15 in 22, or roughly a goal every game and a half. Barring our fellow dead men Ipswich, everyone else is averaging at least a goal a game.

It's eminently possible that Parkinson is driving with the handbrake on, and his exit would help us score more; but equally, and sadly, it's also likely that you would have to give the likes of Buckley, Wildschut, Noone, Doidge, Oztumer and (his bright start being a false dawn) Magennis a hell of a lot more chances before they rewarded you with enough goals. And as any expression of attacking purpose must necessarily have a concomitant effect on defensive solidity, it's also possible that throwing more men forward might just mean we get beaten more easily. It's really not hard to imagine Doidge raising a half-hearted hand to celebrate a consolation in a 3-1 defeat as we spiral inevitably toward relegation.

I think though, we've scored zero in 50% of our games, and home fans have seen us score once since September. Were we conceding three or four in 50% of our games, and constantly at home, we'd be sticking 10-men on the line at all times to see if it made a difference. Instead we lost our only somewhat consistent attacking force for Saturday's game, and Parky replaced him with someone who (at this level) is a workmanlike central midfielder with three goals in nigh on 100 Championship appearances.

Our current rate of scoring would see us hit 31 goals by the end of the season. The only other team to score that few in a 24-team second tier is Birmingham (31 goals to finish 23rd in 1989). The next lowest in that period is 35 (five teams, all relegated). The lowest from a team who survived is 38, which has happened twice.

So, at this point, we need to show a decent level of improvement just to be among the worst performing attacking sides ever to play in this league. That might be what we are, but we're not really giving ourselves the best chance to be better at the moment, either. Changing the manager looks unlikely, but Oztumer and Doidge have been involved in 107 goals across the two seasons before this one (46 for Oztumer, 61 for Doidge). They have the biggest upside of any of our attacking players, if we could get either of them going, but they barely get a run of games.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I was never a Madine fan but he literally got results last year. Put it another way, can anyone imagine a promotion-chasing club spending £6m on any of our players this year?

No, I can't.
It still doesn't turn Madine into Jesus Christ Superstar. Can I remind all of us that we were below the dotted lines when he fxcked off to perform his miracles elsewhere. Or is that irrelevant in the worshipful company...

I’m not saying Madine was immortal. But his combination of goal threat (I know, it genuinely surprised me too, but his 10 goals got us 11 points before February) and hold-up play worked in a way that nobody at the club now looks remotely like matching. I wish that weren’t so, but it is; it doesn’t make me a Nadine proselytiser (or you an apostate). Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

According to WhoScored.com, we average 2.6 efforts on target per game, the division's second-lowest: Ipswich are worse. So far, so obvious, but the opposite doesn't apply: the team who've averaged the most efforts on target is Brentford (5.5), who are 19th in the only table that matters. Then it's Villa. Bristol are 5th (14th in the proper table), Preston 7th (15th), Rotherham 11th (20th). It's not just quantity, but quality.

Even so, there's a point there somewhere. I note enrdentw's argument that Hobbs had a header cleared in the six-yard box, but I can only go off the recorded datasets, and according to the reported figures this was only the second time this season we've not troubled the goalkeeper: the other, unforgivably, was at Ipswich. But we don't trouble them enough. Not for the first time, Nicholaldo's quietly right: the defence is probably playing at Champo standard - only 10 teams have conceded fewer than us. But the attacking end is nowhere near good enough: we've only scored 15 in 22, or roughly a goal every game and a half. Barring our fellow dead men Ipswich, everyone else is averaging at least a goal a game.

It's eminently possible that Parkinson is driving with the handbrake on, and his exit would help us score more; but equally, and sadly, it's also likely that you would have to give the likes of Buckley, Wildschut, Noone, Doidge, Oztumer and (his bright start being a false dawn) Magennis a hell of a lot more chances before they rewarded you with enough goals. And as any expression of attacking purpose must necessarily have a concomitant effect on defensive solidity, it's also possible that throwing more men forward might just mean we get beaten more easily. It's really not hard to imagine Doidge raising a half-hearted hand to celebrate a consolation in a 3-1 defeat as we spiral inevitably toward relegation.

I think though, we've scored zero in 50% of our games, and home fans have seen us score once since September. Were we conceding three or four in 50% of our games, and constantly at home, we'd be sticking 10-men on the line at all times to see if it made a difference. Instead we lost our only somewhat consistent attacking force for Saturday's game, and Parky replaced him with someone who (at this level) is a workmanlike central midfielder with three goals in nigh on 100 Championship appearances.

Our current rate of scoring would see us hit 31 goals by the end of the season. The only other team to score that few in a 24-team second tier is Birmingham (31 goals to finish 23rd in 1989). The next lowest in that period is 35 (five teams, all relegated). The lowest from a team who survived is 38, which has happened twice.

So, at this point, we need to show a decent level of improvement just to be among the worst performing attacking sides ever to play in this league. That might be what we are, but we're not really giving ourselves the best chance to be better at the moment, either. Changing the manager looks unlikely, but Oztumer and Doidge have been involved in 107 goals across the two seasons before this one (46 for Oztumer, 61 for Doidge). They have the biggest upside of any of our attacking players, if we could get either of them going, but they barely get a run of games.

I agree. It might not work, as I somewhat maudlinly suggested late on Saturday night, but it might make the difference and what we’re doing so far isn’t working.

Mind, if it doesn’t work, he’d be decried for changing the team again and picking lower-league players. But again it’s not like anything else is working.

[Harry Genshaw]

Madine was very good in his last 5 months with the club. Magennis i think has marginally more pace and wins just as much in the air. However, unlike in Madines golden spell, Josh doesnt hold it up as well. He also suffers because he doesnt have the nippy options of Alf, Robinson or Vela (often) to lay off to.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Madine was very good in his last 5 months with the club. Magennis i think has marginally more pace and wins just as much in the air. However, unlike in Madines golden spell, Josh doesnt hold it up as well. He also suffers because he doesnt have the nippy options of Alf, Robinson or Vela (often) to lay off to.

I disagree. He wasn't "Very Good". What he was, was the only focus of a dire attack in a shit team. Yes, he scored ten goals, but we also shipped points during that 'renaissance'. He was a Very Mediocre big lump who got quite lucky to get snapped up at a Very Inflated price. Which chump, anywhere on the planet, would still lay out six million quid for him, right now?

[Harry Genshaw]

Madine was very good in his last 5 months with the club. Magennis i think has marginally more pace and wins just as much in the air. However, unlike in Madines golden spell, Josh doesnt hold it up as well. He also suffers because he doesnt have the nippy options of Alf, Robinson or Vela (often) to lay off to.

I disagree. He wasn't "Very Good". What he was, was the only focus of a dire attack in a shit team. Yes, he scored ten goals, but we also shipped points during that 'renaissance'. He was a Very Mediocre big lump who got quite lucky to get snapped up at a Very Inflated price. Which chump, anywhere on the planet, would still lay out six million quid for him, right now?

The Madine of Aug-Dec 2017 was far better than anything he'd been up to then. He was a focal point so saw a lot more of the ball but imo he won more, held on to more and started to carry a threat in front of goal at last.

£6m was ridiculous but then a lot of silly fees were flying around at the time.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Madine was very good in his last 5 months with the club. Magennis i think has marginally more pace and wins just as much in the air. However, unlike in Madines golden spell, Josh doesnt hold it up as well. He also suffers because he doesnt have the nippy options of Alf, Robinson or Vela (often) to lay off to.

I disagree. He wasn't "Very Good". What he was, was the only focus of a dire attack in a shit team. Yes, he scored ten goals, but we also shipped points during that 'renaissance'. He was a Very Mediocre big lump who got quite lucky to get snapped up at a Very Inflated price. Which chump, anywhere on the planet, would still lay out six million quid for him, right now?

The Madine of Aug-Dec 2017 was far better than anything he'd been up to then. He was a focal point so saw a lot more of the ball but imo he won more, held on to more and started to carry a threat in front of goal at last.

£6m was ridiculous but then a lot of silly fees were flying around at the time.

I respect your point of view, but, as often ( ) we must agree to disagree once more. Happy Christmas, might not be around for a week or two.

[Harry Genshaw]

And to you Spotty. And all other TW'ers. May all your gifts be as generous as Cardiff's last year

[Jugs]

I warmed to Madine. At the moment I'm not a fan of any of our strikers.