1970/71

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1970/71

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:51 am

If this omnishambles of a season has any precedent in our history, it's 1970/71, when we went through three different managers, scored our lowest-ever goal average (a low bar we're currently easily dropping under) and fell out of the second tier for the first time.

Anyways, I would very much appreciate the memories of anyone who was present at the time – I was the third-child accident waiting to happen. I might be writing something about it, but even if not, it might be an intriguing parallel to our current travails (or, perhaps, a Things Have Been Worse corollary to the Cheer Up thread).

Some possible subjects:
• Was John Byrom(byrombyrom) injured? He'd scored 25 the season before and top-scored in the subsequent three seasons.
• Any other notable players absent or sold?
• What went on with Jimmy McIlroy's' 18-day reign?
• I was led to believe that Nat, in one of his three (!) spells in charge that season, chose Wanderers' youngest-ever first XI ("The door to the first team is open to everyone") who beat Sheffield United 2-1 at Burnden. But that game (our last win of the season) was on 16 Jan 1971, and according to Wiki* Jimmy Meadows had taken over three days earlier. Anyone remember?
• Perhaps understandably, that season saw our worst-ever attendance average (to that point) of 8,411. In truth it wasn't a huge plummet from 69/70's average of 9,741, but we never had more than 13,130 on (previous season's high had been a 17k). The average had halved since our relegation from the top flight in 1964, but surely by that point, for those who'd seen it full regularly, it must have been a weird experience to rattle round an empty old ground?

Anyway, any thoughts are very welcome indeed, on here on on a private message if you prefer. Thanks all.

*I know, I know, but first-hand sources are thin on the ground and I can't find my official Simon Marland history from 1989

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Re: 1970/71

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:14 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:51 am
If this omnishambles of a season has any precedent in our history, it's 1970/71, when we went through three different managers, scored our lowest-ever goal average (a low bar we're currently easily dropping under) and fell out of the second tier for the first time.

Anyways, I would very much appreciate the memories of anyone who was present at the time – I was the third-child accident waiting to happen. I might be writing something about it, but even if not, it might be an intriguing parallel to our current travails (or, perhaps, a Things Have Been Worse corollary to the Cheer Up thread).

Some possible subjects:
• Was John Byrom(byrombyrom) injured? He'd scored 25 the season before and top-scored in the subsequent three seasons.
• Any other notable players absent or sold?
• What went on with Jimmy McIlroy's' 18-day reign?
• I was led to believe that Nat, in one of his three (!) spells in charge that season, chose Wanderers' youngest-ever first XI ("The door to the first team is open to everyone") who beat Sheffield United 2-1 at Burnden. But that game (our last win of the season) was on 16 Jan 1971, and according to Wiki* Jimmy Meadows had taken over three days earlier. Anyone remember?
• Perhaps understandably, that season saw our worst-ever attendance average (to that point) of 8,411. In truth it wasn't a huge plummet from 69/70's average of 9,741, but we never had more than 13,130 on (previous season's high had been a 17k). The average had halved since our relegation from the top flight in 1964, but surely by that point, for those who'd seen it full regularly, it must have been a weird experience to rattle round an empty old ground?

Anyway, any thoughts are very welcome indeed, on here on on a private message if you prefer. Thanks all.

*I know, I know, but first-hand sources are thin on the ground and I can't find my official Simon Marland history from 1989
I was 15. I wrote a diary at the time (very minimalistic) which tells me that me and my grandad went to seven home games and four away games that season. It also tells me that we got spat at by Blades fans at the away game. I really have no memory of any individual game, but prompted by one line in my diary I do remember going down to the bogs at Burden and being met by a morass of piss and shit, literally.
I also recorded I didn't have the 5s/d necessary for a pie and program! Although according to Wikipedia we'd already gone decimal by then...
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Re: 1970/71

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:51 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:14 pm
I was 15. I wrote a diary at the time (very minimalistic) which tells me that me and my grandad went to seven home games and four away games that season. It also tells me that we got spat at by Blades fans at the away game. I really have no memory of any individual game, but prompted by one line in my diary I do remember going down to the bogs at Burden and being met by a morass of piss and shit, literally.
I also recorded I didn't have the 5s/d necessary for a pie and program! Although according to Wikipedia we'd already gone decimal by then...
Thanks, Spotty; bet that diary's a fascinating read. Were you on the Paddock, Embankment, Lever or (eyebrows) up in the seats?

Funnily enough I was wondering about the price of a pie. According to the BBC, Decimalisation Day was 15 February 1971: midway through the season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12346083

Prices intrigue me, so if anyone knows the entry fee that'd be good. I've got an advance copy of David Hepworth's A Fabulous Creation, in which the Spurs fan notes that "Shopping for records in 1971 was like going to football in 1971. It was an activity that called for time, know-how, transport, diplomacy, the ability to read your surroundings and the perseverance to keep pushing when most sane people would have given up." (He also says "A new album cost between two and three pounds. This was almost ten times more than what it would cost to get into the ground to watch a game of top-level football.")

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Re: 1970/71

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:05 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:51 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:14 pm
I was 15. I wrote a diary at the time (very minimalistic) which tells me that me and my grandad went to seven home games and four away games that season. It also tells me that we got spat at by Blades fans at the away game. I really have no memory of any individual game, but prompted by one line in my diary I do remember going down to the bogs at Burden and being met by a morass of piss and shit, literally.
I also recorded I didn't have the 5s/d necessary for a pie and program! Although according to Wikipedia we'd already gone decimal by then...
Thanks, Spotty; bet that diary's a fascinating read. Were you on the Paddock, Embankment, Lever or (eyebrows) up in the seats?

Funnily enough I was wondering about the price of a pie. According to the BBC, Decimalisation Day was 15 February 1971: midway through the season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12346083

Prices intrigue me, so if anyone knows the entry fee that'd be good. I've got an advance copy of David Hepworth's A Fabulous Creation, in which the Spurs fan notes that "Shopping for records in 1971 was like going to football in 1971. It was an activity that called for time, know-how, transport, diplomacy, the ability to read your surroundings and the perseverance to keep pushing when most sane people would have given up." (He also says "A new album cost between two and three pounds. This was almost ten times more than what it would cost to get into the ground to watch a game of top-level football.")
Instantly I can tell you that a new album was about £2. In 1972 it cost me (in Virgin Records, in Sheffield) £2 for Roxy Music's first. But it also only cost me 49p for Gong's Flying teapot!
I've had a quick scan and unfortunately, like a lot of things in life, I failed to record how much either the bus fare or the entrance fee was.
The program was sixpence, at least for the Sheffield U v Bolton match.
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Re: 1970/71

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:09 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:05 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:51 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:14 pm
I was 15. I wrote a diary at the time (very minimalistic) which tells me that me and my grandad went to seven home games and four away games that season. It also tells me that we got spat at by Blades fans at the away game. I really have no memory of any individual game, but prompted by one line in my diary I do remember going down to the bogs at Burden and being met by a morass of piss and shit, literally.
I also recorded I didn't have the 5s/d necessary for a pie and program! Although according to Wikipedia we'd already gone decimal by then...
Thanks, Spotty; bet that diary's a fascinating read. Were you on the Paddock, Embankment, Lever or (eyebrows) up in the seats?

Funnily enough I was wondering about the price of a pie. According to the BBC, Decimalisation Day was 15 February 1971: midway through the season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12346083

Prices intrigue me, so if anyone knows the entry fee that'd be good. I've got an advance copy of David Hepworth's A Fabulous Creation, in which the Spurs fan notes that "Shopping for records in 1971 was like going to football in 1971. It was an activity that called for time, know-how, transport, diplomacy, the ability to read your surroundings and the perseverance to keep pushing when most sane people would have given up." (He also says "A new album cost between two and three pounds. This was almost ten times more than what it would cost to get into the ground to watch a game of top-level football.")
Instantly I can tell you that a new album was about £2. In 1972 it cost me (in Virgin Records, in Sheffield) £2 for Roxy Music's first. But it also only cost me 49p for Gong's Flying teapot!
I've had a quick scan and unfortunately, like a lot of things in life, I failed to record how much either the bus fare or the entrance fee was.
The program was sixpence, at least for the Sheffield U v Bolton match.
...and no, it's not for sale, nor the unplayed still in its pristine sleeve of Roxy Music. That was also the same year I paid an astounding £3.50 for an import copy of Jimi Hendrix's Electric Ladyland (still pristine and unplayed)...
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Re: 1970/71

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:13 pm

Ha! Thanks, Lep. Given the above, you might enjoy Hepworth's book - I do recommend it. (Roxy are the focus of the 1972 chapter, and the derivation of the book's title.)

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Re: 1970/71

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:15 pm

And we stood on the Embankment down in the left hand corner. My grandad used to balance me on the railing so I could see.
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Re: 1970/71

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:17 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:13 pm
Ha! Thanks, Lep. Given the above, you might enjoy Hepworth's book - I do recommend it. (Roxy are the focus of the 1972 chapter, and the derivation of the book's title.)
Ok. Not heard of it. Curious as to where Roxy Music and A Fabulous Creation intersects???
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Re: 1970/71

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:37 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:17 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:13 pm
Ha! Thanks, Lep. Given the above, you might enjoy Hepworth's book - I do recommend it. (Roxy are the focus of the 1972 chapter, and the derivation of the book's title.)
Ok. Not heard of it. Curious as to where Roxy Music and A Fabulous Creation intersects???
The book's not out yet but Hepworth - who set up Smash Hits then Q, Mojo, Empire and The Word among others – is a fine writer. Some Roxy bits here: http://whatsheonaboutnow.blogspot.com/s ... roxy+music

Oh and the title is the second line of Do The Strand.

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Re: 1970/71

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:59 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:37 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:17 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:13 pm
Ha! Thanks, Lep. Given the above, you might enjoy Hepworth's book - I do recommend it. (Roxy are the focus of the 1972 chapter, and the derivation of the book's title.)
Ok. Not heard of it. Curious as to where Roxy Music and A Fabulous Creation intersects???
The book's not out yet but Hepworth - who set up Smash Hits then Q, Mojo, Empire and The Word among others – is a fine writer. Some Roxy bits here: http://whatsheonaboutnow.blogspot.com/s ... roxy+music

Oh and the title is the second line of Do The Strand.
Five things:
1. Many thanks. No wonder I'd never heard of it, but I should have noted the 'advanced copy's bit.
2. I feel ashamed of not recognising any Roxy lyrics. But then I didn't really like Do the Strand!
3. I shall put in an order for the book.
4. How fxcking weird that a football reminiscence should coalesce on Roxy Music...! But then again 1970.
5. You didn't ask for it but hard luck here is my Roxy Music anecdote.. as a fresher at Liverpool Uni my new best mates decided we'd go on holiday to Norway. These were in days when mobiles nor internet existed. And we were students. Anyway we got a ferry over to Strondheim, only to discover that we were all relying on each other to pay for the holiday. I quickly concluded that a disaster was about to go down... And while dangling my feet over the harbour wall a trawler pulled up. To cut a very long story short, the Geordies on board gave me a lift back to England via fishing off the Lofotens and a trip around the Maelstrom. A week later we arrived back in Newcastle where they took me out to a club and it transpired they were Norwegian not Geordies, and I met Bryan Ferry (who was a snobby drunken arse that night) and Eno who got pissed with me and the Norse Geordie fishermen...
Summer of 74.
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Re: 1970/71

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:08 pm

Now THAT's an anecdote.

The new Hepworth book is £20 hardback; far be it from me to tell you how to spend your money but you might want to try one of his others in paperback first, just in case... you can pay under £2 for a second-hand copy of his book "1971".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listi ... d&qid=&sr=

The title of which might just bring us back on-topic... :D

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Re: 1970/71

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:52 pm

It was about 4 years before I started going but a quick look at Simon Marland's book tells me;

Like this season, we started pretty well. Winning our opening two games.

Unlike this season we managed to score more than twice on a few occasions. A 4-0 home win over Charlton being our biggest win.

We lost by that score on 3 separate occasions. All away at Portsmouth, Birmingham and QPR.

Our leading scorer was Roger Hunt with 8, a total which looks unlikely to be beat this season. John ByromByrom was missing from the side from November to March barring two appearances over Xmas.

I can't help on the price other than saying it was 45p to get on the embankment in around 1976.

Spottys anecdote reminded me of some of the tales in 'Scotland 78 - A love story'. A very good watch on BBC iplayer. Several fans then who got jobs or passage on ships heading to central and South America and then asked the directions to Argentina on disembarking.

Oh , & no consolation for being spat at Spotty but we grabbed a point in that game at Bramhall Lane. 2-2.
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: 1970/71

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:15 pm

Cheers HG.

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Re: 1970/71

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:32 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:52 pm
It was about 4 years before I started going but a quick look at Simon Marland's book tells me;

Like this season, we started pretty well. Winning our opening two games.

Unlike this season we managed to score more than twice on a few occasions. A 4-0 home win over Charlton being our biggest win.

We lost by that score on 3 separate occasions. All away at Portsmouth, Birmingham and QPR.

Our leading scorer was Roger Hunt with 8, a total which looks unlikely to be beat this season. John ByromByrom was missing from the side from November to March barring two appearances over Xmas.

I can't help on the price other than saying it was 45p to get on the embankment in around 1976.

Spottys anecdote reminded me of some of the tales in 'Scotland 78 - A love story'. A very good watch on BBC iplayer. Several fans then who got jobs or passage on ships heading to central and South America and then asked the directions to Argentina on disembarking.

Oh , & no consolation for being spat at Spotty but we grabbed a point in that game at Bramhall Lane. 2-2.
Ha! Cheers for that Harry.
That wasn't the first time I witnessed nastiness or violence at a match, but it was the very first time I was a direct victim. And it did shock me a bit, but to be honest I was much more chuffed about being able to brag to my mates at school about it. Kids, eh?
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Re: 1970/71

Post by piesrus » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:05 pm

I remember going to see us at Birmingham City. They were top and we were bottom of the league. 4-0 and 16 year old Trevor Francis scored the lot. He came off injured with about 20 minutes left. He was something of a bogey player against us; scoring last minute equalisers and winners; though after this game we did not cross paths again till 1978/79. I think Gordon Taylor was playing for them too, and maybe Bob Hatton ( both ex Whites).

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