A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

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Worthy4England
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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Worthy4England » Sat May 04, 2019 10:29 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 9:52 am
^ there's more money in league 1 than 2 but is it significant?

A (possibly) competitive team in league 2 would bring more in through the door than a practically relegated league 1 side?
Think it's nearly £500k higher in L1 just for taking part + solidarity payments.

Last time we were relegated from L3 --> L4 our attendances were on average 150 higher in L4 promotion season than L3 in relegation season...which could have all been accounted for by Wolves at home when we had over 10k on...so maybe £100k in additional ticket sales @ £20 per pop, £150k at £30 per pop (good luck with £30 per pop in L2 :-) )

I suspect you take the L1 money and hope you stay up - from a cash perspective.

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat May 04, 2019 11:41 am

^ 10k on v Wolves? In division 4 there was less than 4k on cos they were banned from attending.

Other than that - fair points. I do wonder if with the right promotional work and a fresh impetus we could sell 10k season tickets for a league 2 season. It'll be a hard sell league 1, minus 21 points, Parky still in charge etc!
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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by TonyDomingos » Sat May 04, 2019 11:46 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 11:41 am
^ 10k on v Wolves? In division 4 there was less than 4k on cos they were banned from attending.

Other than that - fair points. I do wonder if with the right promotional work and a fresh impetus we could sell 10k season tickets for a league 2 season. It'll be a hard sell league 1, minus 21 points, Parky still in charge etc!

If we're still going next season, then we'd have a new owner. New owner usually equals new manager. We're also going to need new players!
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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat May 04, 2019 12:40 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 9:52 am
^ there's more money in league 1 than 2 but is it significant?

A (possibly) competitive team in league 2 would bring more in through the door than a practically relegated league 1 side?
Not sure on the latter.
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 12.28.55.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 12.28.55.png (18.01 KiB) Viewed 1966 times
Here's our attendance figures from around the time we last dipped into le division dernier. (numbers, left to right, are: year, division, division position, "league' position (ie out of 92), attendance.) As a struggling D3 team we tended to attract 4,800-4,900. As a promotion-seeking D4 team we got a couple of hundred more in.

Obviously very different times, different stadium, different prices, etc. And it would depend on opposition – there's likely bigger teams in t3 than t4. But I'm afraid the idea that a few wins (or for that matter getting rid of That Knobhead Manager) gets thousands flooding back in just isn't true. I've said before - when we go down, there's not a huge drop for the first season but it struggles thereafter. We've never had a two-tier drop but I don't think we'd be doing a Rangers/Juventus and selling out everywhere we went. The average attendance in Parky's promotion season was lower than the average the previous year, which was a historically poor season.
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 12.37.54.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 12.37.54.png (83.88 KiB) Viewed 1966 times
Also: you never know, we just might stay up. And here's a thought: does being in the relegation places mean more than likelihood of winning? ie if we're in the drop zone despite being on midtable/playoff form and winning more than we lose, surely that's likely to help the crowds.

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Worthy4England » Sat May 04, 2019 1:00 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 11:41 am
^ 10k on v Wolves? In division 4 there was less than 4k on cos they were banned from attending.

Other than that - fair points. I do wonder if with the right promotional work and a fresh impetus we could sell 10k season tickets for a league 2 season. It'll be a hard sell league 1, minus 21 points, Parky still in charge etc!
Hmmm, used same site as Barnetto. Seemed to suggest highest was 10400...that could've been the away game where they kept us in for about an hour after the final whistle, so the Wolves fans had time to assemble right outside the exit so we wouldn't miss the fight.

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat May 04, 2019 1:06 pm

I think we're at cross purposes here DSB. All being equal I'm sure it makes little difference in attendances as your graphs (excellent work again, thank you :D ) amply demonstrate.

I'm looking at two possible scenarios though;

For arguments sake, the league deduct us 21 -points & we start the new L1 campaign with a handful of players under contract. We've then got to try and persuade players to come to us who know from the off they're joining a relegation battle. Supporters looking to renew season tickets have to commit to the same.

Contrast that with a L2 season where we start on the same points. Easier to attract players and supporters I would suggest. With the right promotion and the fostering of a siege mentality, fresh start etc I don't think it unfeasible that we could sell 10k season tickets
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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Worthy4England » Sat May 04, 2019 1:20 pm

We reported "nearly 10,000" STs last time we were in L1....which was an "optimistic promotion season"

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat May 04, 2019 1:37 pm

Harry - aye, I'm not after an argument. But I do disagree with you :D

Worthy - here's the D4 info from a historical spreadsheet I was given.
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 13.31.45.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 13.31.45.png (202.03 KiB) Viewed 1931 times
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 13.31.57.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 13.31.57.png (172.91 KiB) Viewed 1931 times
Here's home attendances in descending order. Makes sense that Burnley in April tops it - but not 10,000.
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 13.34.54.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 13.34.54.png (192.41 KiB) Viewed 1931 times

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat May 04, 2019 1:38 pm

The Brentford game was postponed because the players went on strike. This is a different reason for other unfulfilled matches in the past.
I'm very sure the EFL will conclude it didn't impede a conclusion to the season, and will therefore not impose any further punishment via a points deduction.
I'm that confident I tried to put a bet on it.
Local Billy Hill is consulting head office as to whether he will take the bet... I will know in about an hour apparently.
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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Worthy4England » Sat May 04, 2019 1:47 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:37 pm
Harry - aye, I'm not after an argument. But I do disagree with you :D

Worthy - here's the D4 info from a historical spreadsheet I was given.

Here's home attendances in descending order. Makes sense that Burnley in April tops it - but not 10,000.
Ta, the point I'm making is you probably would take the extra half a mill In L1 rather than risk
"I'm going to hope to sell 10k STs" in L2...

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat May 04, 2019 2:02 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:38 pm
The Brentford game was postponed because the players went on strike. This is a different reason for other unfulfilled matches in the past.
I'm very sure the EFL will conclude it didn't impede a conclusion to the season, and will therefore not impose any further punishment via a points deduction.
I'm that confident I tried to put a bet on it.
Local Billy Hill is consulting head office as to whether he will take the bet... I will know in about an hour apparently.
My bet has been declined.
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頑張ってください

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by TonyDomingos » Sat May 04, 2019 2:15 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:02 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:38 pm
The Brentford game was postponed because the players went on strike. This is a different reason for other unfulfilled matches in the past.
I'm very sure the EFL will conclude it didn't impede a conclusion to the season, and will therefore not impose any further punishment via a points deduction.
I'm that confident I tried to put a bet on it.
Local Billy Hill is consulting head office as to whether he will take the bet... I will know in about an hour apparently.
My bet has been declined.

Were you trying to place it using dodgy Thai money? :P
Às armas, às armas!
Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat May 04, 2019 2:20 pm

TonyDomingos wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:15 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:02 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:38 pm
The Brentford game was postponed because the players went on strike. This is a different reason for other unfulfilled matches in the past.
I'm very sure the EFL will conclude it didn't impede a conclusion to the season, and will therefore not impose any further punishment via a points deduction.
I'm that confident I tried to put a bet on it.
Local Billy Hill is consulting head office as to whether he will take the bet... I will know in about an hour apparently.
My bet has been declined.

Were you trying to place it using dodgy Thai money? :P
I think you are confusing me with piesrus - I only use sterling (or coupons) :evil:
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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat May 04, 2019 3:23 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:47 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:37 pm
Harry - aye, I'm not after an argument. But I do disagree with you :D

Worthy - here's the D4 info from a historical spreadsheet I was given.

Here's home attendances in descending order. Makes sense that Burnley in April tops it - but not 10,000.
Ta, the point I'm making is you probably would take the extra half a mill In L1 rather than risk
"I'm going to hope to sell 10k STs" in L2...
Aye - and I'd agree. (Also: there is a chance of staying up.)

FYI, while discussing it: 21 pts is the current distance between 11th and 24th in L1. So it's a big ask, but "play-off race" pace (1.5ppg) should be enough to avoid relegation.

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Re: A win would bee too late! Versus Brentford. Home Sat 27th April. 3-0'clock k

Post by piesrus » Sat May 04, 2019 4:28 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:20 pm
TonyDomingos wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:15 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:02 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:38 pm
The Brentford game was postponed because the players went on strike. This is a different reason for other unfulfilled matches in the past.
I'm very sure the EFL will conclude it didn't impede a conclusion to the season, and will therefore not impose any further punishment via a points deduction.
I'm that confident I tried to put a bet on it.
Local Billy Hill is consulting head office as to whether he will take the bet... I will know in about an hour apparently.
My bet has been declined.

Were you trying to place it using dodgy Thai money? :P
I think you are confusing me with piesrus - I only use sterling (or coupons) :evil:
I don't gamble; I only drink, smoke and fornicate.

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