Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:46 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm
Given when he came people said Madine was shockingly bad...and given Murphys record and ability to still score goals...I reckon Parky would have walked over broken glass for Daryl Murphy.
A 36-year-old Daryl Murphy?

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:24 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm
Given when he came people said Madine was shockingly bad...and given Murphys record and ability to still score goals...I reckon Parky would have walked over broken glass for Daryl Murphy.
A 36-year-old Daryl Murphy?
Yep absolutely. Perhaps not when Madine was banging them in for fun but I reckon even then Parky would have had DM of ALF. And certainly over AW.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by malcd1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:37 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm
Given when he came people said Madine was shockingly bad...and given Murphys record and ability to still score goals...I reckon Parky would have walked over broken glass for Daryl Murphy.
A 36-year-old Daryl Murphy?

Soon to be 37 year old Daryl Murphy.

Insane - DM has played at a higher level than Madine and both at their peak, only an idiot would choose Madine. Daryl's peak has long gone but he can still do a job at League 1. The following season we scraped out of League 1, Madine was sold to promotion chasing Cardiff for £6m. I can't see Forest wanting him back. Can you?

I get Parky was your man-crush and you are quite within your rights to say he was a great manager for us but almost everyone esle is also entitled to say he was a bit shit. We should have strolled into the Championship instead of leaving it until the last game of the season, especially as he kept most of the same squad and strengthened in some areas.
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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:52 am

malcd1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:37 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm
Given when he came people said Madine was shockingly bad...and given Murphys record and ability to still score goals...I reckon Parky would have walked over broken glass for Daryl Murphy.
A 36-year-old Daryl Murphy?

Soon to be 37 year old Daryl Murphy.

Insane - DM has played at a higher level than Madine and both at their peak, only an idiot would choose Madine. Daryl's peak has long gone but he can still do a job at League 1. The following season we scraped out of League 1, Madine was sold to promotion chasing Cardiff for £6m. I can't see Forest wanting him back. Can you?

I get Parky was your man-crush and you are quite within your rights to say he was a great manager for us but almost everyone esle is also entitled to say he was a bit shit. We should have strolled into the Championship instead of leaving it until the last game of the season, especially as he kept most of the same squad and strengthened in some areas.
I'm also entitled to say this is bollocks and subsequent events have shown it. The idea we were far too good for league one is the sort of shite I'd thought would have been stamped out now. We weren't great and we went up and then stayed up with a pretty poor side - of which the majority aren't even playing at league one level now let alone championship. He took us up under an embargo and kept us up under an embargo - in a league where teams were paying millions for players and we couldn't pay a thing.

If the excuse next season for Hill is that he can't take us out of league 2 in an embargo then I'm sorry you can't have it both ways. Either Parky did a marvellous job or it isn't an excuse for Hill. One or t'other.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:19 am

I thought his feat to keep us up, recognising that it was a weak Champo squad, was better than his job in getting us up, with the caveat that Sheffield Utd were a better team (and the only ones that finished ahead of us). So on reflection, I'm not unhappy that he didn't top the league.

But would I have hoped for him to get us up with that squad - yes and he did - so job done. He did have the advantage of much higher budget than most of the Division invested in the squad we had. Hill won't have the same advantage - what did Hill inherit? Three full time professionals and a training ground that was locked, 7 games playing the U18's?

The notion the two are good comparisons is not a good one in my book. That's neither a vote for Hill nor a vote against Parky - I just don't see the comparison between the two.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:27 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:19 am
I thought his feat to keep us up, recognising that it was a weak Champo squad, was better than his job in getting us up, with the caveat that Sheffield Utd were a better team (and the only ones that finished ahead of us). So on reflection, I'm not unhappy that he didn't top the league.

But would I have hoped for him to get us up with that squad - yes and he did - so job done. He did have the advantage of much higher budget than most of the Division invested in the squad we had. Hill won't have the same advantage - what did Hill inherit? Three full time professionals and a training ground that was locked, 7 games playing the U18's?

The notion the two are good comparisons is not a good one in my book. That's neither a vote for Hill nor a vote against Parky - I just don't see the comparison between the two.
The argument I'd make was that Parky had most of his resources tied up in players our fans had wanted rid of and said were useless. And had been. He got the best out of them.

Hill will have even in embargo the chance to go and build a squad on a budget that will be higher than most in league two given our revenue and attendances will be high in that league.

No thing is the same or exactly comparable but I think that if you don't think promotion is realistic next season that causes a huge problem for FV and their financial position. A good manager and sensible recruitment surely gives us a chance?

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:35 am

You can't take criticism given in a Championship season and relate it to a League 1 season - just because (for example) I thought Vela was a poor Championship player, I didn't think he was a poor League 1 player - there's a large gap which you seem to be overlooking in the quality of the opposition.

What supports your assertion that Hill will have a budget higher than most in League two or his ability to spend it even if he had?

I would like to think (as I did with League 1 Parky) that promotion is a possibility - I'm going to wait until nearer the time to take a better view on it's likelihood when we've seen what if anything he's had/been able to spend. Whether I think Hill is the right man for the job - different question - I'm somewhat sceptical.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:31 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:24 am
when Madine was banging them in for fun
Hyperbole alert!!
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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:51 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:24 am
when Madine was banging them in for fun
Hyperbole alert!!
Surely didn't miss his two goals in 19 minutes in the pre-season friendly v Port Vale on July 28 2015?

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by nicholaldo » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:32 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:27 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:19 am
I thought his feat to keep us up, recognising that it was a weak Champo squad, was better than his job in getting us up, with the caveat that Sheffield Utd were a better team (and the only ones that finished ahead of us). So on reflection, I'm not unhappy that he didn't top the league.

But would I have hoped for him to get us up with that squad - yes and he did - so job done. He did have the advantage of much higher budget than most of the Division invested in the squad we had. Hill won't have the same advantage - what did Hill inherit? Three full time professionals and a training ground that was locked, 7 games playing the U18's?

The notion the two are good comparisons is not a good one in my book. That's neither a vote for Hill nor a vote against Parky - I just don't see the comparison between the two.
The argument I'd make was that Parky had most of his resources tied up in players our fans had wanted rid of and said were useless. And had been. He got the best out of them.

Hill will have even in embargo the chance to go and build a squad on a budget that will be higher than most in league two given our revenue and attendances will be high in that league.

No thing is the same or exactly comparable but I think that if you don't think promotion is realistic next season that causes a huge problem for FV and their financial position. A good manager and sensible recruitment surely gives us a chance?

But we'll be prevented from making the most of the advantage higher revenues and higher attendances give us. That's the problem.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by malcd1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:52 am
malcd1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:37 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm
Given when he came people said Madine was shockingly bad...and given Murphys record and ability to still score goals...I reckon Parky would have walked over broken glass for Daryl Murphy.
A 36-year-old Daryl Murphy?

Soon to be 37 year old Daryl Murphy.

Insane - DM has played at a higher level than Madine and both at their peak, only an idiot would choose Madine. Daryl's peak has long gone but he can still do a job at League 1. The following season we scraped out of League 1, Madine was sold to promotion chasing Cardiff for £6m. I can't see Forest wanting him back. Can you?

I get Parky was your man-crush and you are quite within your rights to say he was a great manager for us but almost everyone esle is also entitled to say he was a bit shit. We should have strolled into the Championship instead of leaving it until the last game of the season, especially as he kept most of the same squad and strengthened in some areas.
I'm also entitled to say this is bollocks and subsequent events have shown it. The idea we were far too good for league one is the sort of shite I'd thought would have been stamped out now. We weren't great and we went up and then stayed up with a pretty poor side - of which the majority aren't even playing at league one level now let alone championship. He took us up under an embargo and kept us up under an embargo - in a league where teams were paying millions for players and we couldn't pay a thing.

If the excuse next season for Hill is that he can't take us out of league 2 in an embargo then I'm sorry you can't have it both ways. Either Parky did a marvellous job or it isn't an excuse for Hill. One or t'other.
I've never said Hill is doing a good job. He isn't but it's only you who wants to compare what a great job Parkinson did to how bad Hill is in League 1. Their respective squad quality, depth and wage caps when we dropped into League 1 is completely different. We had one of the best squads with the highest salaries in the division. I'd have thought even you would have to admit that by now but I suppose that doesn't quite fit with your Parky man-crush does it?

I don't think Parkinson is not a terrible manager. He just isn't very good either. You could also say he failed to get the best of some fairly average Championship players by the negative style of play having one tactic of punt it up to the striker whether he was a target man or not. Have you forgotten how many records Parky set last season? Fewest goals scored, lowest points per game, fewest wins. That is not the sign of the good manager you seem to be suggesting.
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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:31 am

malcd1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:52 am
malcd1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:37 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm
Given when he came people said Madine was shockingly bad...and given Murphys record and ability to still score goals...I reckon Parky would have walked over broken glass for Daryl Murphy.
A 36-year-old Daryl Murphy?

Soon to be 37 year old Daryl Murphy.

Insane - DM has played at a higher level than Madine and both at their peak, only an idiot would choose Madine. Daryl's peak has long gone but he can still do a job at League 1. The following season we scraped out of League 1, Madine was sold to promotion chasing Cardiff for £6m. I can't see Forest wanting him back. Can you?

I get Parky was your man-crush and you are quite within your rights to say he was a great manager for us but almost everyone esle is also entitled to say he was a bit shit. We should have strolled into the Championship instead of leaving it until the last game of the season, especially as he kept most of the same squad and strengthened in some areas.
I'm also entitled to say this is bollocks and subsequent events have shown it. The idea we were far too good for league one is the sort of shite I'd thought would have been stamped out now. We weren't great and we went up and then stayed up with a pretty poor side - of which the majority aren't even playing at league one level now let alone championship. He took us up under an embargo and kept us up under an embargo - in a league where teams were paying millions for players and we couldn't pay a thing.

If the excuse next season for Hill is that he can't take us out of league 2 in an embargo then I'm sorry you can't have it both ways. Either Parky did a marvellous job or it isn't an excuse for Hill. One or t'other.
I've never said Hill is doing a good job. He isn't but it's only you who wants to compare what a great job Parkinson did to how bad Hill is in League 1. Their respective squad quality, depth and wage caps when we dropped into League 1 is completely different. We had one of the best squads with the highest salaries in the division. I'd have thought even you would have to admit that by now but I suppose that doesn't quite fit with your Parky man-crush does it?

I don't think Parkinson is not a terrible manager. He just isn't very good either. You could also say he failed to get the best of some fairly average Championship players by the negative style of play having one tactic of punt it up to the striker whether he was a target man or not. Have you forgotten how many records Parky set last season? Fewest goals scored, lowest points per game, fewest wins. That is not the sign of the good manager you seem to be suggesting.
Firstly good manager is relative. Parky for us was not good - he was bloody outstanding. That doesn't mean he'd be anything other than poor for a top half championship side.

Secondly - last season was not really down to the manager now was it? In fact we started well - but clearly the off the pitch rumblings that started following the draw at Preston with an overnight "we're going into admin" sapped everything and everyone at the club. Perhaps a huge managerial character may have been able to lift everyone above that but I suspect you're talking in the unlikely category there.

The narrative we had a superb league one squad and the manager held us back is dispelled when you look at the careers of the players we had since. Or it should be. But inspite of overwhelming evidence and subsequent results here and elsewhere people still can't say "look I was wrong, for where we were Parky did a great job". I suspect strongly in a couple of seasons those stubborn few will realise that to be the case - though I do hope not.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:34 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:31 am
The narrative we had a superb league one squad and the manager held us back is dispelled when you look at the careers of the players we had since. Or it should be.
Give us a couple of ferinstances…I'm not at all convinced by this.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:09 pm

Ok - so team that started season...
33Howard - League one Blackpool - loaned out earlier in season to league two Salford.
23Wilson - Non League Ebbsfleet
5Beevers - League One Peterborough
31Wheater - League Two Oldham
3Moxey - League Two - Exeter
7Taylor - League Two Bradford (barely gets in team) Substituted for Davies - retired
8Spearing - League One Blackpool Booked at 45mins Substituted for Trotter - No club
6Vela - League One Shrewsbury Booked at 28mins
2Buxton - Retired
21Pratley- Championship - Charlton
14Madine - League One Blackpool Substituted for Proctor - League One Rotherham - on loan at non-league Fylde

So of the team that were supposedly so good that only a moron couldn't get them up - only one player plays above League One level in Darren Pratley. 5 play below league one level.

We can take Mark Davies out since he retired through injury and whilst undoubtedly he was a quality above league one he was injured before half a dozen games were played.....

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:26 pm

Parky is a good L1 and L2 manager, he has proved that throughout his career. He gets his team playing to a structure, generates a good spirit in the team, which is enough for a lot of clean sheets and unbeaten runs.

Parky is a poor manager at championship level, he has proved that throughout his career. That structure becomes restrictive, meaning his teams can't break down better defences, whilst better, quicker, more intelligent players can break down his structure.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:41 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:26 pm
Parky is a good L1 and L2 manager, he has proved that throughout his career. He gets his team playing to a structure, generates a good spirit in the team, which is enough for a lot of clean sheets and unbeaten runs.

Parky is a poor manager at championship level, he has proved that throughout his career. That structure becomes restrictive, meaning his teams can't break down better defences, whilst better, quicker, more intelligent players can break down his structure.
I mean I suspect rather than purely a tactical limitation its also down to opportunity and quality of players...

Sam Allardyce has improved massively in the premiership over supposedly more "modern progressive managers" time and time again - the limitation as Sam himself would say is the quality of players. Give him a reasonable or even poor but manageable set of players with Defoe and he'll organise them to stay up.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:06 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:41 pm
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:26 pm
Parky is a good L1 and L2 manager, he has proved that throughout his career. He gets his team playing to a structure, generates a good spirit in the team, which is enough for a lot of clean sheets and unbeaten runs.

Parky is a poor manager at championship level, he has proved that throughout his career. That structure becomes restrictive, meaning his teams can't break down better defences, whilst better, quicker, more intelligent players can break down his structure.
I mean I suspect rather than purely a tactical limitation its also down to opportunity and quality of players...

Sam Allardyce has improved massively in the premiership over supposedly more "modern progressive managers" time and time again - the limitation as Sam himself would say is the quality of players. Give him a reasonable or even poor but manageable set of players with Defoe and he'll organise them to stay up.
Yeah, opportunity to some degree shapes the way they manage. If your first managerial job is at a club fighting to stay in a division with a small budget then you are going to develop a certain style and risk wearing a certain label throughout your managerial career. Or is it more of a character/personality trait that means they set their teams up in a particular style? Possibly with Parky and Big Sam they have had enough varying opportunities in their careers to suggest it is more the latter?

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:13 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:06 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:41 pm
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:26 pm
Parky is a good L1 and L2 manager, he has proved that throughout his career. He gets his team playing to a structure, generates a good spirit in the team, which is enough for a lot of clean sheets and unbeaten runs.

Parky is a poor manager at championship level, he has proved that throughout his career. That structure becomes restrictive, meaning his teams can't break down better defences, whilst better, quicker, more intelligent players can break down his structure.
I mean I suspect rather than purely a tactical limitation its also down to opportunity and quality of players...

Sam Allardyce has improved massively in the premiership over supposedly more "modern progressive managers" time and time again - the limitation as Sam himself would say is the quality of players. Give him a reasonable or even poor but manageable set of players with Defoe and he'll organise them to stay up.
Yeah, opportunity to some degree shapes the way they manage. If your first managerial job is at a club fighting to stay in a division with a small budget then you are going to develop a certain style and risk wearing a certain label throughout your managerial career. Or is it more of a character/personality trait that means they set their teams up in a particular style? Possibly with Parky and Big Sam they have had enough varying opportunities in their careers to suggest it is more the latter?
I think that its simply that if you're always scrapping against the odds you do things in a certain way. And probably get used to it.

But Big Sam IMO is a far better manager than 15 or so of those currently managing in the premiership right now. I mean Ole or Big Sam? Not even a question, Big Sam everytime over the bug-eyed Norwegian weirdo. Without any question. Solskjaer has done nothing, zero, nowt. Relegated Cardiff and made Man Utd the most boring team to watch in history having spent a ridiculous amount of money whilst moaning about not having spent enough. Allardyce pisses all over him in every way possible. But he won't get the chance to manage there because these clubs are stupid.

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:21 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:09 pm
Ok - so team that started season...
33Howard - League one Blackpool - loaned out earlier in season to league two Salford.
23Wilson - Non League Ebbsfleet
5Beevers - League One Peterborough
31Wheater - League Two Oldham
3Moxey - League Two - Exeter
7Taylor - League Two Bradford (barely gets in team) Substituted for Davies - retired
8Spearing - League One Blackpool Booked at 45mins Substituted for Trotter - No club
6Vela - League One Shrewsbury Booked at 28mins
2Buxton - Retired
21Pratley- Championship - Charlton
14Madine - League One Blackpool Substituted for Proctor - League One Rotherham - on loan at non-league Fylde

So of the team that were supposedly so good that only a moron couldn't get them up - only one player plays above League One level in Darren Pratley. 5 play below league one level.

We can take Mark Davies out since he retired through injury and whilst undoubtedly he was a quality above league one he was injured before half a dozen games were played.....
They're somewhat older now - so I don't accept that comparison. It's an absolute nonsense. My view of the squad was it probably wasn't good enough for Champo, but managed to stay there a season, but was certainly good enough for a tilt at L1 - If you look at the players that played half the games or more, there were:

Vela - probably found his level - had a decent season with 9 goals
Beevers - had a good season was still in a team the season after that stayed up in the Championship
Wheater - had a good season was still in a team the season after that stayed up in the Championship
Spearing - Went to Championship side, Blackburn
Madine - Went to Championship? side, Cardiff
A Taylor - Played every season bar one at Champo or higher
Henry - Played the previous two seasons for Champo club
Howard - Fair play - probably a League 1 keeper
Clough - Still scored 4 in 14 in the Champo, the season after he left us
Proctor - Journeyman L1 player mainly
Derik - Information difficult to find :-)
Alnwick - Played most games in the Champo season we stayed up
Wilson - Made 16 starts - probably just about a L1 player when we had him
Thorpe - L1
Ameobi - Better than a L1 player
Trotter - Had a good run of L1 games season after he left us
C Taylor - Who knows

So you'd think with that squad that a tilt at promotion wasn't an unreasonable ask with 9 players who at their core were about Champo level albeit it with many of them on the way down. Just because Youri Djorkaeff is retired now, doesn't make him shit when he played for us!

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Re: Day after St Valentines day massacre? Bolton v Wycombe Home, Sat 15th Feb. 3-o'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:53 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:09 pm
Ok - so team that started season...
33Howard - League one Blackpool - loaned out earlier in season to league two Salford.
23Wilson - Non League Ebbsfleet
5Beevers - League One Peterborough
31Wheater - League Two Oldham
3Moxey - League Two - Exeter
7Taylor - League Two Bradford (barely gets in team) Substituted for Davies - retired
8Spearing - League One Blackpool Booked at 45mins Substituted for Trotter - No club
6Vela - League One Shrewsbury Booked at 28mins
2Buxton - Retired
21Pratley- Championship - Charlton
14Madine - League One Blackpool Substituted for Proctor - League One Rotherham - on loan at non-league Fylde

So of the team that were supposedly so good that only a moron couldn't get them up - only one player plays above League One level in Darren Pratley. 5 play below league one level.

We can take Mark Davies out since he retired through injury and whilst undoubtedly he was a quality above league one he was injured before half a dozen games were played.....
They're somewhat older now - so I don't accept that comparison. It's an absolute nonsense. My view of the squad was it probably wasn't good enough for Champo, but managed to stay there a season, but was certainly good enough for a tilt at L1 - If you look at the players that played half the games or more, there were:

Vela - probably found his level - had a decent season with 9 goals
Beevers - had a good season was still in a team the season after that stayed up in the Championship
Wheater - had a good season was still in a team the season after that stayed up in the Championship
Spearing - Went to Championship side, Blackburn
Madine - Went to Championship? side, Cardiff
A Taylor - Played every season bar one at Champo or higher
Henry - Played the previous two seasons for Champo club
Howard - Fair play - probably a League 1 keeper
Clough - Still scored 4 in 14 in the Champo, the season after he left us
Proctor - Journeyman L1 player mainly
Derik - Information difficult to find :-)
Alnwick - Played most games in the Champo season we stayed up
Wilson - Made 16 starts - probably just about a L1 player when we had him
Thorpe - L1
Ameobi - Better than a L1 player
Trotter - Had a good run of L1 games season after he left us
C Taylor - Who knows

So you'd think with that squad that a tilt at promotion wasn't an unreasonable ask with 9 players who at their core were about Champo level albeit it with many of them on the way down. Just because Youri Djorkaeff is retired now, doesn't make him shit when he played for us!
I'm not saying that it was a poor league one squad. I'm saying it was one that was massively overrated by our fans who thought it should "walk it". It was a squad mainly of ageing players on their way down (and they'd been going further and further down at BWFC) and journeymen type signings. It was competitive sure. But no more or less so than a number of squads in that division. And the fact that few of the players now play at a higher level would suggest the majority at best were solid L1 players.

I don't think it was a guaranteed promotion squad. It was a "we've a chance along with half a dozen or so other teams". And the circumstances of the season before and fans writing off the entire team as hopeless and wanting all the players released were forgotten when fans suddenly wanted a pop at the manager.

It was a better squad than we have now. Absolutely - but equally now we were only at best hoping for 4th bottom not promotion. And I'd say that if you take the squad Hill had first half of the season - I don't think its a million miles away. Bridcutt would easily have been in Parky's side. As would Verlinden (albeit not a Parky type player) and Emmanuel was better than any right back we had that season. Not sure a lot between Remi and Ben Alnwick or Mark Howard either. And Daryl Murphy was a better bet than Proctor...Wheater and Beevers probably better than we've had since and Ameobi clearly. Lowe vs Spearing? Not much in that for me.

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