The Keith Hill out thread

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by TonyDomingos » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:12 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:56 pm
Impossible job last season but don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

This.
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Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by nicholaldo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:33 pm

I never warmed to him either, and although he was undoubtedly dealt a bad hand he played it badly.

We move on, hopefully to better things.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:15 am

Get Sam Ricketts in. A Rioch in the making.
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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:31 am

DJBlu wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:10 pm
Dean Holden?
Being mentioned but I'm not sure why. He was mentioned last August (between Parky and Hill) so I got my mate who works the Bristol beat to ask him: a polite no thanks - good luck to the club but it's the wrong time for me. What's different now?
• a division lower
• a board in flux
• an emasculating Director of Football post that didn't exist last year
• higher expectations (rightly or wrongly, more people will expect more wins than last year)

So I suspect the only reason for him to be slightly interested is if he's had enough of being a No.2 - and if so, (1) are we the right club and (2) would he want to work under a DoF, which (compared to his current role) essentially gives him more culpability with not much more power?

There's other options mentioned in Ilesy's roundup:
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... departure/
A lot of them (including Holden) are under contract so you wonder what the compensation situation is - certainly Alan Nixon (FWIW) seems to think that rules us out. Which would leave (from that list)
• David Lee
• Michael Beale
• Michael Jolley
• Chris Powell
• Phil Brown
• Gary Bowyer
• Nigel Clough
• Simon Grayson

To me, Brown and Grayson don't fit the DoF model, and Clough will want a higher job.

Bowyer and Powell might be humble enough to work under Phoenix, who is a decade younger than either. Powell seems a nice bloke but has he succeeded anywhere? Bowyer did take Blackpool up and might represent a safe option but I'd hardly be organising a socially-distanced street party.

Then there's the younger guns. Didsy has been discussed a lot and while I love him as a Wanderer I remain unsure he's the right option right now. Beale I'll admit I've never heard of. Jolley is a clever bloke, and very Moneyball - Cambridge MA in economics, coaching badges up the wazoo. Didn't exactly scorch the heather at Grimsby but few do, and the circumstances of his exit were peculiar rather than particularly worrying.
Last edited by Dave Sutton's barnet on Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:32 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:15 am
Get Sam Ricketts in. A Rioch in the making.
While I can applaud the idea, why would he leave a well-run club in the division above and where would we find the money to compensate a presumably stunned Shrewsbury?

Actually, there's a point - are we actually allowed to pay compensation in embargo?

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:10 pm

Between Ricketts or Clough for me, I certainly don't want David Lee which I think would be a huge mistake.

But I can see them possibly looking for someone like Beale if they are looking for a head coach type instead of a manager.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:58 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:10 pm
Between Ricketts or Clough for me, I certainly don't want David Lee which I think would be a huge mistake.
It's only 20 hours since you were pledging your ST money for next season :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I agree Didsy would be a huge risk, but I just can't see a unifying candidate. Whoever comes in, a few folk will be very nervous, and I hope those nerves don't immediately translate into abuse. Hill actually got a decent ride considering the results but I don't know whether people would be that patient in D4... more than a few might just wander away.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:06 pm

Good round up - but You missed Nolan. Had a reasonable record at this level with two clubs, clearly fancies the job, would work under a DoF? Or is he ruled out on the basis he didn’t get it last time...? I’m not advocating him - I’ve given up as every time we appoint a manager I like the sound of it turns to shit, but I think he must be in contention?

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:56 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:32 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:15 am
Get Sam Ricketts in. A Rioch in the making.
While I can applaud the idea, why would he leave a well-run club in the division above and where would we find the money to compensate a presumably stunned Shrewsbury?

Actually, there's a point - are we actually allowed to pay compensation in embargo?
Oh absolutely. However, one can but dream fairly realistically (is that a contradiction?) and Ricketts is very much the man for me. Even when I heard him interviewed as a player he always came across as having that smarter-than-your-average footy boy demeanor / intellect about him.

Absolutely no idea re the compo/embargo bit. Very good question.
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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:50 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:56 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:32 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:15 am
Get Sam Ricketts in. A Rioch in the making.
While I can applaud the idea, why would he leave a well-run club in the division above and where would we find the money to compensate a presumably stunned Shrewsbury?

Actually, there's a point - are we actually allowed to pay compensation in embargo?
Oh absolutely. However, one can but dream fairly realistically (is that a contradiction?) and Ricketts is very much the man for me. Even when I heard him interviewed as a player he always came across as having that smarter-than-your-average footy boy demeanor / intellect about him.

Absolutely no idea re the compo/embargo bit. Very good question.
I can’t say I’m an expert on lower league managers but I concur here that every time I’ve heard Sam speak it’s been impressive. He stands out to me as being intelligent and composed. I do think sadly out of our budget and league right now.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:51 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:06 pm
Good round up - but You missed Nolan. Had a reasonable record at this level with two clubs, clearly fancies the job, would work under a DoF? Or is he ruled out on the basis he didn’t get it last time...? I’m not advocating him - I’ve given up as every time we appoint a manager I like the sound of it turns to shit, but I think he must be in contention?
Heh, so I did - but I mentioned him yesterday I think. to repeat: the two clubs he managed went down to non-league the season after, so did he overachieve or overspend? Also - won't he be under contract at West Ham? (I guess the done thing is to let coaches leave if they want to become managers.)

Also, a Bratfurt-supporting mate said this, which might keep me up at night: "If you thought the footie was dire under Parky, Bowyer will show you a whole new level in that respect. You have suffered enough. Please dont do it...." Nixon insists Bowyer's been interviewed and is in the box seat, if not yet a certainty.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:52 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:50 pm
I do think sadly out of our budget and league right now.
Literally out of our league. (I mean, you can say he's still Football League, but the daft bastards renamed it League One and League Two, which implies different leagues to me ;-D)

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:51 pm

Working with a DoF and currently unemployed says Bowyer to me. He did a very underrated job at Blackburn and was excellent at Blackpool working under pretty dire circumstances. Bradford was odd. Bowyers a pretty dour chap and I imagine that dourness would be used against him when his sides aren't winning.

Bradford were insisting on total football after Parky, which McCall briefly offered but without success before their further decline.

I don't suppose we'll be hiring anyone for a few weeks yet,what with Hill still on the payroll and no idea when next season is going to start.
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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Hoboh » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:27 pm

Well done Sharon & the board
See here I have a big problem, just where the hell have these lot been hiding for a good few months, nothing, zilch!

Won't be holding my breath about their next (dis)appointment.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:57 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:51 pm
I don't suppose we'll be hiring anyone for a few weeks yet,what with Hill still on the payroll and no idea when next season is going to start.
H&F contract being up means they were presumably contracted until June 30 so that’s no real block. Iles and Nicko seem to think things are moving quickly. Assuming the league will restart ASAP because (1) second wave possibility (2) clubs dangerously skint. Aug too soon but Sep not. Prem will have an eye on finishing in time for Euro 2021 and others will fall into line. Jobs are at risk. With exception of playoff contenders, we’re arguably now more pre-season than close season - especially those clubs who need hands on deck.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:36 am

Bowyer would be a solid if not a bit uninspiring choice. I don’t see us finding inspiration in our current situation. What I would say however is that Bowyer a traditional manager type would signal less of a change in approach - something Sharon hinted at in her message and more that they just were fed up of Hill.

I don’t want us to be a confused club. If they want a DoF and coach setup then do it now. Don’t half bake it.

If however they want to stick with a manager running the show then Bowyer is a decent choice in our very troubled position. The concern would be his failure at Bradford most recently and in the same league. Quite a large concern. But one has to hope that was a blip.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:32 am

Drifted into contentedly excited sleep last night after reading this Athletic piece on Ian Evatt's 'Barrowcelona'. We may not get him, of course, but the idea was pleasant enough.

https://theathletic.co.uk/1579893/2020/ ... guardiola/

It's a 5,000-word article on a pay-site, but if you haven't got a subscription, you can watch a video based on it here:


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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:30 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:32 am
Drifted into contentedly excited sleep last night after reading this Athletic piece on Ian Evatt's 'Barrowcelona'. We may not get him, of course, but the idea was pleasant enough.

https://theathletic.co.uk/1579893/2020/ ... guardiola/

It's a 5,000-word article on a pay-site, but if you haven't got a subscription, you can watch a video based on it here:


Normally I’d say it’s best to be conservative and safe with someone with experience. In this situation I think taking a risk might be justified. He sounds like the sort of manager who either got a bit lucky with the setup there or someone who can really craft a team and style.

When you’ve hit rock bottom it’s worth thinking outside the box. So something like this could work well. He will also know the better non league players a market we likely we need to exploit.

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:35 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:30 pm
Normally I’d say it’s best to be conservative and safe with someone with experience. In this situation I think taking a risk might be justified. He sounds like the sort of manager who either got a bit lucky with the setup there or someone who can really craft a team and style.

When you’ve hit rock bottom it’s worth thinking outside the box. So something like this could work well. He will also know the better non league players a market we likely we need to exploit.
I hope this is rock bottom, although as ever I'm reminded of Shakespeare's warning in King Lear - “And worse I may be yet: the worst is not, so long as we can say 'This is the worst.'" But that's being a Wanderer... :mrgreen:

Like you, I've previously championed experience over youth – and I still think it wouldn't hurt to have someone with a thick contacts book. However, that look at the age of successful managers in D4, coupled with our need for someone to work under the rising Phoenix, suggests a bit of freshness may be just what's needed.

Whether or not that's Evatt, we don't know. Compo might be a problem but it hardly feels like he'll be on millions and you sense they know they've got to get this right. As you say maybe he got lucky but the ground-up rebuilding - I don't know whether it's in the video, but there were only four players at Barrow when he arrived, and surely it's much harder to attract players up "Britain's longest cul-de-sac" than here – and emphatic style suggest something's going right somewhere. (Also note that they train in Manchester in order to widen their pool of available players, which suggests a useful local knowledge.)

If he calculates the headroom, he might realise there's a huge potential for growth here, and being in at the start of a rebuild might appeal to him. Even the 'head coach' thing might, as he seems very on-the-grass (and, frankly, it makes it easier to move on in a couple of years if he outgrows us, Cowley-like).

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Re: The Keith Hill out thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:09 pm

An interview with Evatt.



He isn't asked about moving but says Barrow have only got him, assistant (Peter Atherton), an analyst (interesting) and a part-time strength & conditioning coach, so he's been handling all the contracts - which he says has been a "massive learning curve". "The way I see it, the higher I go, the more easier it's gonna get for me when I can start delegating to more staff etc." Hmmm...

(also says he was a United fan as a kid, so presumably would be barracked by the sort of fan who'd rather we didn't sign Willie Morgan or Tony Dunne)

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