New Manager Thread

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New Manager Thread

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:20 pm

There's been some debate in other threads, but I thought it might be better if there was a separate thread specifically to discuss who we think either should or will be our next manager.

If we decide experience is the priority then Bowyer is the obvious, albeit uninspiring, choice. My sneaking suspicion, however, is that of all the realistic rumoured options, Phoenix might find Michael Jolley the most appealing. Whether or not the choice is solely his, though, I don't know.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:40 pm

As for Evatt, Iles stated yesterday that in recent weeks there have been strong rumours "about a manager currently in a job and under contract". I can only think that would be him.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by DJBlu » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:42 am

There are also strong rumours that it is Gary Bowyer.

Talk about underwhelming.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:07 am

Clough is supposedly on Birmingham’s short list, so that would rule him out. Bowyer is probably the most likely of the experienced manager pool we are likely to get I reckon - is he a head coach type though?

Swindon and Shrewsbury fans getting hot under the collar but I don’t see us paying compo (did we for Parkinson?).

I am thinking thE chap from Barrow could well be a decent outside bet.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:21 am

DJBlu wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:42 am
There are also strong rumours that it is Gary Bowyer.

Talk about underwhelming.
I get what you mean he's not an inspiring choice. But we're in league 2 with no money. Everyone will be uninspiring or completely untested. In 6 months we might be screaming for someone with Bowyers experience. You never know how any appointment will work out and I suspect now that is true more than ever.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:54 am

Bowyer is only 2 years younger than Hill so doesn't really fit into the 'young' category. In terms of style of football and the willingness to act as a coach rather than manager he wouldn't appear to be the most obvious candidate either.

Based almost exclusively on what DSB posted on the other thread, Ian Evatt looks by some way the most interesting option to me.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:36 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:54 am
Bowyer is only 2 years younger than Hill so doesn't really fit into the 'young' category. In terms of style of football and the willingness to act as a coach rather than manager he wouldn't appear to be the most obvious candidate either.

Based almost exclusively on what DSB posted on the other thread, Ian Evatt looks by some way the most interesting option to me.
We don't really have a clear statement of intent from FV. Lots of media rumour and conjecture. Iles says we're going for a younger 'head coach' style setup - or at least that's his gut feeling - Nixon says we're after experience.

I hope that the club know what they want - have a profile in mind and recruit to that. I don't particularly mind if that is an experienced hand or an upcoming 'head coach' type - so long as its clear what we're doing. The last thing we want is recruiting another out and out manager like Hill to work in a setup they cannot...or appointing a younger coach without the correct support setup around them. If Phoenix is hands on and dictates recruitment and the club are confident in him doing that then go with the younger end and find someone to work in that setup - if he's not so hands on and doesn't want so much direct involvement in 1st team decisions then get a manager who can operate in that setup and dictate the players Phoenix tries to sign.

But whatever way we go, make sure its the model they want and that everyone is comfortable with it. The last thing we need is a repeat of Hill falling out with everyone when he realises the structure....

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:51 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:36 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:54 am
Bowyer is only 2 years younger than Hill so doesn't really fit into the 'young' category. In terms of style of football and the willingness to act as a coach rather than manager he wouldn't appear to be the most obvious candidate either.

Based almost exclusively on what DSB posted on the other thread, Ian Evatt looks by some way the most interesting option to me.
We don't really have a clear statement of intent from FV. Lots of media rumour and conjecture. Iles says we're going for a younger 'head coach' style setup - or at least that's his gut feeling - Nixon says we're after experience.

I hope that the club know what they want - have a profile in mind and recruit to that. I don't particularly mind if that is an experienced hand or an upcoming 'head coach' type - so long as its clear what we're doing. The last thing we want is recruiting another out and out manager like Hill to work in a setup they cannot...or appointing a younger coach without the correct support setup around them. If Phoenix is hands on and dictates recruitment and the club are confident in him doing that then go with the younger end and find someone to work in that setup - if he's not so hands on and doesn't want so much direct involvement in 1st team decisions then get a manager who can operate in that setup and dictate the players Phoenix tries to sign.

But whatever way we go, make sure its the model they want and that everyone is comfortable with it. The last thing we need is a repeat of Hill falling out with everyone when he realises the structure....
Yes, the profile I mentioned is what Iles described over the weekend. He may not be 100% correct, but what he outlined certainly sounds logical.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:01 pm

Bits and bats from Ilesy, carefully phrased as "understood to be" happening. Phoenix and Andy Gartside "understood to be working on the new appointment". BN "understands Barrow manager Ian Evatt is on a shortlist of names that the club wishes to investigate." John McGinlay thinks his mate Didsy should get it.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/18 ... ager-race/

Meanwhile, as it's a new thread for the ages, here's my thoughts from other threads on managerial options - apologies for repeat if you've read 'em before.
[Dean Holden is] being mentioned but I'm not sure why. He was mentioned last August (between Parky and Hill) so I got my mate who works the Bristol beat to ask him: a polite no thanks - good luck to the club but it's the wrong time for me. What's different now?
• a division lower
• a board in flux
• an emasculating Director of Football post that didn't exist last year
• higher expectations (rightly or wrongly, more people will expect more wins than last year)

So I suspect the only reason for him to be slightly interested is if he's had enough of being a No.2 - and if so, (1) are we the right club and (2) would he want to work under a DoF, which (compared to his current role) essentially gives him more culpability with not much more power?

There's other options mentioned in Ilesy's roundup:
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... departure/
A lot of them (including Holden) are under contract so you wonder what the compensation situation is - certainly Alan Nixon (FWIW) seems to think that rules us out. Which would leave (from that list)
• David Lee
• Michael Beale
• Michael Jolley
• Chris Powell
• Phil Brown
• Gary Bowyer
• Nigel Clough
• Simon Grayson

To me, Brown and Grayson don't fit the DoF model, and Clough will want a higher job.

Bowyer and Powell might be humble enough to work under Phoenix, who is a decade younger than either. Powell seems a nice bloke but has he succeeded anywhere? Bowyer did take Blackpool up and might represent a safe option but I'd hardly be organising a socially-distanced street party.

Then there's the younger guns. Didsy has been discussed a lot and while I love him as a Wanderer I remain unsure he's the right option right now. Beale I'll admit I've never heard of. Jolley is a clever bloke, and very Moneyball - Cambridge MA in economics, coaching badges up the wazoo. Didn't exactly scorch the heather at Grimsby but few do, and the circumstances of his exit were peculiar rather than particularly worrying.

------
[Nolan] the two clubs he managed went down to non-league the season after, so did he overachieve or overspend? Also - won't he be under contract at West Ham? (I guess the done thing is to let coaches leave if they want to become managers.)

Also, a Bratfurt-supporting mate said this, which might keep me up at night: "If you thought the footie was dire under Parky, Bowyer will show you a whole new level in that respect. You have suffered enough. Please dont do it...." Nixon insists Bowyer's been interviewed and is in the box seat, if not yet a certainty.
-------

Drifted into contentedly excited sleep last night after reading this Athletic piece on Ian Evatt's 'Barrowcelona'. We may not get him, of course, but the idea was pleasant enough.

https://theathletic.co.uk/1579893/2020/ ... guardiola/

It's a 5,000-word article on a pay-site, but if you haven't got a subscription, you can watch a video based on it here:



---------
I've previously championed experience over youth – and I still think it wouldn't hurt to have someone with a thick contacts book. However, that look at the age of successful managers in D4, coupled with our need for someone to work under the rising Phoenix, suggests a bit of freshness may be just what's needed.

Whether or not that's Evatt, we don't know. Compo might be a problem but it hardly feels like he'll be on millions and you sense they know they've got to get this right. As you say maybe he got lucky but the ground-up rebuilding - I don't know whether it's in the video, but there were only four players at Barrow when he arrived, and surely it's much harder to attract players up "Britain's longest cul-de-sac" than here – and emphatic style suggest something's going right somewhere. (Also note that they train in Manchester in order to widen their pool of available players, which suggests a useful local knowledge.)

If he calculates the headroom, he might realise there's a huge potential for growth here, and being in at the start of a rebuild might appeal to him. Even the 'head coach' thing might, as he seems very on-the-grass (and, frankly, it makes it easier to move on in a couple of years if he outgrows us, Cowley-like).
----------
An interview with Evatt.



He isn't asked about moving but says Barrow have only got him, assistant (Peter Atherton), an analyst (interesting) and a part-time strength & conditioning coach, so he's been handling all the contracts - which he says has been a "massive learning curve". "The way I see it, the higher I go, the more easier it's gonna get for me when I can start delegating to more staff etc." Hmmm...

(also says he was a United fan as a kid, so presumably would be barracked by the sort of fan who'd rather we didn't sign Willie Morgan or Tony Dunne)

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Prufrock » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:27 pm

I think I invented that Holden rumour tbf.

I hope we're going DoF money ball marginal gains etc. Feels like there's a real niche we could exploit. I've got my optimism hat on and decided we're an absolutely titanic club for the 4th tier, and big ships build up big momentum. Hopefully the new owners have turned it around and time will tell.

My instinct says young coach we've not or barely heard of. Evatt probably the most exciting of the realistics.

Was v impressed with Sam Ricketts' Shrewsbury last year but imagine he's a no (though our potential might make us interesting).
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:38 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:27 pm
I think I invented that Holden rumour tbf.

I hope we're going DoF money ball marginal gains etc. Feels like there's a real niche we could exploit. I've got my optimism hat on and decided we're an absolutely titanic club for the 4th tier, and big ships build up big momentum. Hopefully the new owners have turned it around and time will tell.

My instinct says young coach we've not or barely heard of. Evatt probably the most exciting of the realistics.

Was v impressed with Sam Ricketts' Shrewsbury last year but imagine he's a no (though our potential might make us interesting).
Others have mentioned Dean Holden, including Iles. People like that would have to be sold a project. There's a lot to gain but a lot to lose.

Nixon suggesting Fylde were asked for £100k compo when they tried to hire Evatt, and he's signed a new contract since. Doesn't rule him out but it's an obstacle when others would be free.

Like Nicholaldo, I've got a sneaky suspicion Michael Jolley ticks a lot of the FV-highlighted boxes; I just hope we don't find ourselves a month into the season with poor results sparking complaints about a couple of wet-eared kids (he and Phoenix) at the helm.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:54 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:38 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:27 pm
I think I invented that Holden rumour tbf.

I hope we're going DoF money ball marginal gains etc. Feels like there's a real niche we could exploit. I've got my optimism hat on and decided we're an absolutely titanic club for the 4th tier, and big ships build up big momentum. Hopefully the new owners have turned it around and time will tell.

My instinct says young coach we've not or barely heard of. Evatt probably the most exciting of the realistics.

Was v impressed with Sam Ricketts' Shrewsbury last year but imagine he's a no (though our potential might make us interesting).
Others have mentioned Dean Holden, including Iles. People like that would have to be sold a project. There's a lot to gain but a lot to lose.

Nixon suggesting Fylde were asked for £100k compo when they tried to hire Evatt, and he's signed a new contract since. Doesn't rule him out but it's an obstacle when others would be free.

Like Nicholaldo, I've got a sneaky suspicion Michael Jolley ticks a lot of the FV-highlighted boxes; I just hope we don't find ourselves a month into the season with poor results sparking complaints about a couple of wet-eared kids (he and Phoenix) at the helm.
Left his first job because he fell out with the board. Left his second after launching a huge expletive filled rant at the local media - not very promising for a man to come and manage Bolton Wanderers....in fact it screams problems to me in these circumstances!

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:10 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:54 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:38 pm
Like Nicholaldo, I've got a sneaky suspicion Michael Jolley ticks a lot of the FV-highlighted boxes
Left his first job because he fell out with the board. Left his second after launching a huge expletive filled rant at the local media - not very promising for a man to come and manage Bolton Wanderers....in fact it screams problems to me in these circumstances!
Yeah, neither of those things worries me. He left a small Swedish club over "the direction of the club" - which usually means money. Then he had a pop at a radio reporter who in a rather weaselly move leaked it. Various quotes are here and there's plenty who'd say that shows passion; in a Fergie or Big Sam it'd be heralded as protective genius.

I'm not saying he's the answer, but those things don't worry me. The fact the rant (or "impassioned defence") came after a seven-game winless win is more worrying.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:23 pm

Ryan Lowe, there's no way he's coming but his achievements do buck the trend/perceived wisdom around managers.

He's done a remarkable job with successive promotions and proof that you dont have to be an old hand with a huge contacts book to be successful. He was given a chance at Bury while they were well on their way to relegation. After a miserable few months, a pre season and a slow start to the new season, they started to pick up pace until they were scoring goals for fun.

He then repeated the feat with Plymouth.

I'd have no problem with Lee or Nolan being appointed if they've got a similar clear philosophy. Next season could be their free hit
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:51 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:10 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:54 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:38 pm
Like Nicholaldo, I've got a sneaky suspicion Michael Jolley ticks a lot of the FV-highlighted boxes
Left his first job because he fell out with the board. Left his second after launching a huge expletive filled rant at the local media - not very promising for a man to come and manage Bolton Wanderers....in fact it screams problems to me in these circumstances!
Yeah, neither of those things worries me. He left a small Swedish club over "the direction of the club" - which usually means money. Then he had a pop at a radio reporter who in a rather weaselly move leaked it. Various quotes are here and there's plenty who'd say that shows passion; in a Fergie or Big Sam it'd be heralded as protective genius.

I'm not saying he's the answer, but those things don't worry me. The fact the rant (or "impassioned defence") came after a seven-game winless win is more worrying.
Having read the quotes it screams 'Keith Hill' to me. Just don't want someone who becomes confrontational over criticism, perceived or otherwise. Hill was starting fights before anyone had really raised an eyebrow in his direction. Bolton is a tough place to manage - I want someone who gets it, is tough and no nonsense, but also has a touch of class about them in difficult circumstances - Parky and Rioch both displayed said characteristics.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:53 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:23 pm
Ryan Lowe, there's no way he's coming but his achievements do buck the trend/perceived wisdom around managers.

He's done a remarkable job with successive promotions and proof that you dont have to be an old hand with a huge contacts book to be successful. He was given a chance at Bury while they were well on their way to relegation. After a miserable few months, a pre season and a slow start to the new season, they started to pick up pace until they were scoring goals for fun.

He then repeated the feat with Plymouth.

I'd have no problem with Lee or Nolan being appointed if they've got a similar clear philosophy. Next season could be their free hit
But my understanding of Lowe is he achieved both with large budgets - his pedigree is impressive - but the context perhaps suggests he's slightly flattered. I mean ultimately he's an ideal manager for us, arguably out of our league now. But I suspect if you're looking for someone with a genuine vision and plan from what I've read yon Barrow man might be as good as anyone.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:44 pm

Didn’t Plymouth sign someone we had on trial last summer on bigger wages than us? Ryan Lowe likes signing and spending...he’s a good manager, sure, but I don’t see him being the man for us.

I had to google Michael jolley 😂

I’ll understand if it’s Bowyer - I’m more excited if it’s Evatt, but I thought Coyle was the best appointment we would ever make and Freedman was a real coup - so I’m hoping I don’t like this chap!

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:48 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:53 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:23 pm
Ryan Lowe, there's no way he's coming but his achievements do buck the trend/perceived wisdom around managers.

He's done a remarkable job with successive promotions and proof that you dont have to be an old hand with a huge contacts book to be successful. He was given a chance at Bury while they were well on their way to relegation. After a miserable few months, a pre season and a slow start to the new season, they started to pick up pace until they were scoring goals for fun.

He then repeated the feat with Plymouth.

I'd have no problem with Lee or Nolan being appointed if they've got a similar clear philosophy. Next season could be their free hit
But my understanding of Lowe is he achieved both with large budgets - his pedigree is impressive - but the context perhaps suggests he's slightly flattered. I mean ultimately he's an ideal manager for us, arguably out of our league now. But I suspect if you're looking for someone with a genuine vision and plan from what I've read yon Barrow man might be as good as anyone.
To be fair, I think Lowe actually cut the playing budget at Bury but that may well be because of the huge overspend he inherited from Lee Clark.

Agree re Evatt. I'd be excited if we could get him but I suspect a compensation package would be beyond us.

Recent news coverage mentioned the 'Rooney' rule that EFL clubs are subject to. I see Twitter has now picked up Steven Reid as a possible candidate.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:53 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:44 pm
Didn’t Plymouth sign someone we had on trial last summer on bigger wages than us? Ryan Lowe likes signing and spending...he’s a good manager, sure, but I don’t see him being the man for us.

I had to google Michael jolley 😂

I’ll understand if it’s Bowyer - I’m more excited if it’s Evatt, but I thought Coyle was the best appointment we would ever make and Freedman was a real coup - so I’m hoping I don’t like this chap!
Judging managerial appointments is very very hard in advance. Nobody will call them right every time. I was pro Coyle - but very very quickly realised he was absolutely disastrous for the club. I annoyed the hell out of people in saying that continuously but sadly even I couldn't see how truly disastrous he was. The worst manager we've had in terms of the resources available vs results and performance.

I thought Freedman might have been the answer - I think in many ways he would have been if he'd not become depressed very early on and ended up hating the job and the club.

I thought Lennon would fire us up again but its a similar story to Freedman - we needed a manager who was prepared to try and work miracles but Lennon wanted to compete financially - he'd never known anything but that. Probably Gartside who early on in his charge went for managers who reflected where the club was had lost his way by then and was trying to placate fans rather than make sound decisions.

I loved Bruce Rioch from the moment he arrived. Even when some of our fans wanted him out. Never took to Todd and always though, like Coyle, that he was a bit of a chancer as manager - good coach - good second fiddle - but never ever the main man. Too nervous a personality.

I thought Sammy Lee might have done good things with the players we had - and a little room for additions - but was a disaster - again arguably the argument of a good coach when what we needed was a strong leader to steady the ship.

And as soon as we got Parky I knew it was a great appointment - the only good thing Ken Anderson did. And for all the flak and stick he took - I miss him. I'd be pretty confident for the forthcoming season were he recruiting a team. In fact I think he'd have kept us up last season if he'd had the shot early enough.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:54 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:48 pm
Recent news coverage mentioned the 'Rooney' rule that EFL clubs are subject to.
I'd missed that. Chris Powell's gonna be getting a lot of interviews.

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